Pacific Palisades Fire

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
3,991
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From the pictures I have seen, it doesn't appear Firesmart is very popular in that area.
I urge everyone to Firesmart their houses as best they can. Your local fire department should have all the information you need.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
58,886
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Washington DC
Little known fact, just for you. . .

Contrary to popular belief, a vacuum cleaner is widely called a "hoover," not because "Hoover" is a popular and widespread brand of suck brooms, but named for Herbert Hoover, President of the United States from 1929-1933.

Cuz he sucked.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
114,417
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Low Earth Orbit
Little known fact, just for you. . .

Contrary to popular belief, a vacuum cleaner is widely called a "hoover," not because "Hoover" is a popular and widespread brand of suck brooms, but named for Herbert Hoover, President of the United States from 1929-1933.

Cuz he sucked.
Hoovering" is a British term for the act of vacuuming. It's a colloquialism that originated from the Hoover Company, a leading vacuum cleaner manufacturer in the early 20th century.

Explanation
The term "hoover" has become a genericized trademark for vacuum cleaners in the UK and Ireland.

"Hoovering" can also be used as a verb, for example, "You were hoovering the carpet".

The term "hoover" can also be used in other contexts, such as "to consume something quickly and eagerly". For example, "The country is hoovering up ever more commodities".
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
26,875
9,922
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Little known fact, just for you. . .

Contrary to popular belief, a vacuum cleaner is widely called a "hoover," not because "Hoover" is a popular and widespread brand of suck brooms, but named for Herbert Hoover, President of the United States from 1929-1933.

Cuz he sucked.
Can you imagine how the term Trudeau will be used in the future then?😳 The urban dictionary is already quite interesting.
 

TheShadow

Council Member
Apr 24, 2020
1,058
552
113
Ontario
The house isnt worth much. $20M will build 200 plain jane 1000sqft houses. Its all about the land.
The house has actual value but yes, the land is the main component.

I think though that the cost to remove the old debis, re-service the land for re-building, and then rebuilding is also a cost that needs to be looked at.

It's wonderful to have the land but if it cannot be serviced that's an issue.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
114,417
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Low Earth Orbit
The house has actual value but yes, the land is the main component.

I think though that the cost to remove the old debis, re-service the land for re-building, and then rebuilding is also a cost that needs to be looked at.

It's wonderful to have the land but if it cannot be serviced that's an issue.
Its an opportunity for city planners to go nuts.
 

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
37,834
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Fire tornadoes are a risk under California’s extreme wildfire conditions
Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Holly Ramer
Published Jan 15, 2025 • 2 minute read

As if they aren’t already facing enough, firefighters in California also could encounter fire tornadoes — a rare but dangerous phenomenon in which wildfires create their own weather.


The National Weather Service warned Tuesday that the combination of high winds and severely dry conditions have created a “particularly dangerous situation” in which any new fire could explode in size. The advisory, which runs into Wednesday, didn’t mention tornadoes, but meteorologist Todd Hall said they’re possible given the extreme conditions.

A look at fire tornados:

What is a fire tornado?
Fire whirl, fire devil, fire tornado or even firenado _ scientists, firefighters and regular folks use multiple terms to describe similar phenomena, and they don’t always agree on what’s what. Some say fire whirls are formed only by heat, while fire tornados involve clouds generated by the fire itself.

The National Wildfire Coordinating Group’s glossary of wildland fire terms doesn’t include an entry for fire tornado, but it defines a fire whirl as a “spinning vortex column of ascending hot air and gases rising from a fire and carrying aloft smoke, debris and flame,” and says large whirls “have the intensity of a small tornado.”


Wildfires with turbulent plumes can produce clouds that in turn can produce lightning or a vortex of ash, smoke and flames, said Leila Carvalho, professor of meteorology and climatology at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

“There is a rotation caused by very strong wind shear and a very hot, localized low-pressure system,” she said.

What is a fire tornado capable of?
Fire tornados can make fires stronger by sucking up air, Carvalho said. “It creates a tornado track, and wherever this goes, the destruction is like any other tornado.”

In 2018, a fire tornado the size of three football fields killed a firefighter as it exploded in what already was a vast and devastating wildfire near near Redding, about 250 miles (400 kilometers) north of San Francisco in northern California. Scientists later described an ice-capped cloud that reached 7 miles (11 km) into the air and caused winds up to 143 mph (230 kph).


Research also suggests fire tornadoes can carry airborne embers, also called firebrands, over long distances, said James Urban, an assistant professor in the Department of Fire Protection Engineering at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. They also can change the fire’s behaviour, he said.

“That’s also something that is dangerous and scary for first responders, or really anyone,” he said. “It can change and maybe go in a different direction.”

The interaction between wind, the fire plume and topography determines whether a tornado will develop, he said. For example, sometimes a certain topography will restrict airflow in such a way that a spiral pattern develops.

Can you make one in a lab?
Together with San Jose State University, Worcester Polytech is part of a Wildfire Interdisciplinary Research Center. In the lab in Worcester, researchers have created small fire tornadoes by putting up walls around a fire or arranging a bunch of little fires that together restrict airflow. But that’s on a much smaller scale than what’s happening with the wildfires.

“We’ve got the biggest fire lab in the U.S. for a university, but we cannot get something the size of what’s been reported at these fires,” he said. “You can’t really bottle that and put it in a lab.”
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
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Olympus Mons
When I think fire tornado, I think Hamburg and Dresden. Most of the footage I saw I would classify as fire devils, in my non-expert opinion. Still wouldn't wanna be fighting fires with those fuckers popping up though.
 

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
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Winds, arsonists complicate fight against L.A. wildfires despite progress
Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Jaimie Ding, Christopher Weber And Julie Watson
Published Jan 15, 2025 • 4 minute read

LOS ANGELES — Firefighters reported significant gains Wednesday against the two massive wildfires burning around Los Angeles, while also extinguishing smaller blazes set by arsonists in recent days as a final round of windy, flame-fanning weather moved through Southern California.


A Particularly Dangerous Situation red-flag warning expired in the afternoon, but dry conditions and gusty winds were forecast to linger into Thursday. So much of the nation’s second-most populous metropolitan region remained on alert for new outbreaks and flareups from the fires, which have killed at least 25 people and destroyed thousands of homes.

Earlier Wednesday gusts whipped up to 80 km/h in the mountains, though many areas saw relatively light winds late in the morning, according to the National Weather Service. Better conditions expected in the coming days should help fire crews make even more headway and allow residents to return to their neighbourhoods to begin rebuilding.

Still, firefighters and police faced new challenges. Since the beginning of the wildfire outbreak last week, authorities have arrested about half a dozen people accused of setting new, small fires that were quickly knocked down.


One suspect admitted starting a fire in a tree “because he liked the smell of burning leaves,” Los Angeles Police Chief Jim McDonnell said. Another said “she enjoyed causing chaos and destruction,” the chief said Wednesday.

Authorities have not determined a cause for the major blazes in what is on track to become the nation’s costliest fire disaster.

Multiple wildfires fuelled by intense Santa Ana winds continue to burn across Los Angeles County, with some containment achieved. At least 25 people have died, more than 12,000 structures have been destroyed or damaged, and 40,000 acres burned. Over 88,000 people remain under evacuation orders as high winds are forecast.
Officials facing questions over response
L.A. officials, who already were criticized for hydrants running dry, faced more questions. Fire officials chose not to double the number of firefighters on duty last Tuesday as winds increased, and only five of more than 40 engines were deployed, according to internal records obtained by the Los Angeles Times and interviews with fire commanders.


The department also did not call in off-duty firefighters until after the Palisades Fire erupted.

Los Angeles Fire Chief Kristin Crowley defended her decisions. “I can tell you and stand before you, we did everything in our capability to surge where we could,” she told a news conference.

Crowley said that despite “limited capacity” within the department, crews were able to respond swiftly by calling for assistance from other agencies and seeking help from off-duty firefighters.

Increasing containment on biggest fires
More manageable winds Tuesday allowed firefighters to make gains on the two most destructive fires. Almost half of the Eaton Fire just north of L.A. was contained, and a fifth of the fire that destroyed much of the seaside neighbourhood of Pacific Palisades was surrounded.


Both of those broke out Jan. 7 in conditions similar to what was expected Wednesday, though winds were higher last week when they pushed flames at remarkable speed and carried fire-sparking embers for miles.

The weather service issued red-flag warnings — indicating warm temperatures, low humidity and expected strong winds — through Wednesday afternoon from the Central Coast south to the Mexico border.



Long road of rebuilding ahead
Los Angeles authorities promised to do everything they could to help people recover and rebuild. But Mayor Karen Bass acknowledged there is no way to replace much of what has been lost.


“You’ve lost memories, family. All of the experiences that took place there are gone, and gone unexpectedly, gone rapidly,” Bass said.

This week the mayor issued an executive order to eliminate red tape and allow people to live in tiny homes and trailers while they rebuild.

Different kind of disaster
Thomas Martin works with Calvary Disaster Relief, a group that responds to disasters all over the world. Most times, he shows up after floods, tornadoes and hurricanes, helping people repair their roofs and rip out soggy carpet.

“This is different,” he said. “This is total devastation. There’s nothing much we can do other than pray for the folks.”


Wildfires on rise across L.A.
With almost no rain in more than eight months, the brush-filled region has had more than a dozen wildfires this year, mostly in the greater Los Angeles area.


The four largest ones have scorched more than 163 sq. km, roughly three times the size of Manhattan.

Searching for victims
Nearly 30 people were still missing, Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna said Wednesday.

Deputies have searched more than 5,500 properties for victims from the Eaton Fire and hoped to finish in that area by Thursday, he said.

One of the victims of the Eaton Fire, 95-year-old Dalyce Curry, loved wearing big hair and makeup, her family said. She hobnobbed with stars from old Hollywood, appearing as an extra with Diana Ross in Lady Sings the Blues and in 1956’s The Ten Commandments.

Entertainment community responds
The Grammy Awards ceremony will happen Feb. 2 and focus on helping the city’s recovery.

“In challenging times, music has the power to heal, comfort and unite like nothing else,” Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr. and Tammy Hurt, chair of the board of trustees, said in a letter sent to academy members that was obtained by The Associated Press.

— Watson reported from San Diego. Associated Press journalists Lindsey Bahr in Los Angeles, John Seewer in Toledo, Ohio, Mark Thiessen in Anchorage, Alaska, Josh Funk in Omaha, Neb., Hallie Golden in Seattle, Lisa Baumann in Bellingham, Wash., and Julie Walker in New York contributed.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
114,417
13,197
113
Low Earth Orbit
Only a fucking idiot would expect a city water system to be equipped to fight forest fires.

Just sayin'.
Youd expect it to have more than 3 million gallons. A mere 50 hours for a single pumper truck at 1000 gallons per minute.

It lasted 15 hours.

She said at a press conference that her department had four times the normal demand for water for 15 hours straight — causing DWP to run out of water in three huge water tanks used on the Palisades Fire, with the third tank emptied of its water at 3 a.m. Wednesday morning.

Fire trucks typically have a pump capacity of 1,000–2,000 gallons per minute (gpm). However, industrial fire trucks and other high-flow trucks can have much higher capacities, sometimes reaching 10,000 gpm.