Our PM says carbon dioxide is not a pollutant

bluealberta

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Apr 19, 2005
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aeon said:
BitWhys said:
[url=http://www.parl.gc.ca/39/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/029_2006-05-30/ques029-E.htm#Int-1555042 said:
Stephen Harper[/url]]Mr. Speaker, I can explain the difference. The climate change agenda is principally about carbon dioxide, which is not a pollutant. The government is also concerned with pollutants such as nitrous oxides, sulphur dioxides and other organic compounds. There are differences and that is the difference.

I guess it depends on who you listen (pdf) to, but at least we know where Professor Tinkerputt is taking his cues from.


Well we have the proof right there, that our pm, is an idiot at the highest level, in the same lin as george w.

Not as big an idiot as this poster, methinks. Oh yeah, a proof is a proof is a proof, or some other totally stupid quote from an equally stupid LIberal.

Patience, my impatient friend, Harper has proven that he is a man of his word, and when he says he will have a made in Canada solution for Canada to follow, he will do it. I understand how you might not be used to politicians from your side of the fence actually doing what they say they will, but get used to it, Harper is around for a long time. 8)
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Our PM says carbon di

Well we have the proof right there, that our pm, is an idiot at the highest level, in the same lin as george w.

Now isn't that the pot calling the kettle black....

For everyone else, try looking up the word semantics, then apply that to CO2 as a pollutant.
 

Vicious

Electoral Member
May 12, 2006
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Ontario, Sadly
RE: Our PM says carbon di

Does anyone know how catalytic converters work? Don't they reduce a cars emissions of carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, hydrocarbons and such.

I think a focus on reducing smog and other forms of air pollution will be easier for industry and individuals to understand and get behind. I also think that if we attact the smog problem we will contribute to reducing greenhouse gases.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
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bluealberta said:
Not as big an idiot as this poster, methinks. Oh yeah, a proof is a proof is a proof, or some other totally stupid quote from an equally stupid LIberal.

Patience, my impatient friend, Harper has proven that he is a man of his word, and when he says he will have a made in Canada solution for Canada to follow, he will do it. I understand how you might not be used to politicians from your side of the fence actually doing what they say they will, but get used to it, Harper is around for a long time. 8)


Well first of all, i am not a liberal supporter, and second of all, yes harper has proven to be an idiot, claiming that CO2 isnt a pollutant, it is the stupiest thing i ever heard in my entire life,the restriction he did on the media, bringing back the gay debate which is completly retarded,said iran leaders was like hitler, when in fact he forgot to mention that his great friends who are the bushes, supported hitler during ww2, what is next?? the abortion right of women? or bring us back in the years of 40's?
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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We can always hope a member of the opposition decides to waste a question on Ambrose during his or her allotted time in Commons since with this anal collection of locksteppers we call the government of the day its the only way to get her attention long enough to give her a chance to tell us whether she agrees with The Hairplug on this. Even then the odds of getting a straight answer out of her are, as it always is with her, about the same as her finally puking up that "very thorough policy" she was talking about last year.
 

bluealberta

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Apr 19, 2005
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There is an article in the Calgary Sun today by Tom Harris who is, "a mechanical engineer and Ottawa director of a public affairs and public policy company" called "PUBLIC WARMING TO KYOTO DEBATE" about this very issue. I cannot find a link but will provide some quotes.

The first quote is
"Scientists--those men and women whose work is supporte to be the basis for all pro-Kyoto olicey...continue to speak out more and more against the establishment view on climate change"

Further, Tom Ball, a Victoria based climatologist delivered a lecture in Ottawa last week titled "Climate Change in an Age of Misinformation" is quoted as saying:

"Over the past 10 years, the public has been hoodwinked into thinking our emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are leading to a climate catastrophe. In reality, CO2 is essential for photosynthesis and its rise and fall has never been closely correlated with the warming and colling of the planet"

Dr, Madhay Kanheiar, an ex environment Canada research scientist, says that much of the climate science accepted by the public as being settled is, at best, seriously in doubt. He also concluded that land use change due to urbanization and variations in the sun's brightness are primary drivers of the past century's modest warming. He also demonstrated in a lecture entitled "Global Warming Science: A Need for Reassessment", that there have been no increase in extreme weather events in Canada. He further states:

"The link between warming and extreme weather events is tenuous at best--it is really more perception than reality and is due primarily to today's nearly instantaneous media coverage of disasters worldwide, a capabilty we did not have until very recently."

Carleton University Earth Sciences Professor Tim Patterson also had a few messages, notably:

"....we now feel that climate is driven by changes in the sun"

and:

"Five million people a year die in Africa because they do not have clean drinking water resources. The money allocated towards Kyoto in one year would provide clean drinking water to Africa in perpetuity"

Finally, Dr Ian Clark, Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of Ottawa summed up:

"The science has progressed dramatically in this field. In particular, we are seeing new evidence--new hard evidence--showing that solar forces, not CO2, is really the main driver of climate. There's actually been no evidence that CO2, which is a benign gas, a nutrient for plants, has ever had a measurable impact on our climate."

As one of them stated, he bases his conclusions on what the data is really telling us, not on computer models of hypothetical futures. We need a reality check, using observed data about how the climate is changing.

So, after reading this article, I assume that the ones who called Harper an idiot are also going to call these learned professors, all but one from Eastern Canada, idiots as well?

Radical and extreme rhetoric about Kyoto has, and will continue, to get us nowhere. When there as many learned people arguing against Kyoto as there are for it, surely there needs to be a step back approach and really take a look. But to blame CO2, the subject of this thread, would seem to be a bit foolhardy. It would appear the Harper has the knowledge and information to make informed decisions, and if one of those decisions is to take a look at all this due to differing thoughts, then that can only be applauded. To call him an idiot is simply to reflect the thought process of the person doing the name calling.
 

Vicious

Electoral Member
May 12, 2006
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RE: Our PM says carbon di

Thanks Jay - The one thing I love about science is that dissenting opinions are allowed and even encouraged. That's why I get my back up when people try to shut down debate on things like climate change. the next piece of evidence can change the debate entirely. As long at the theories are based on computer models, as soon as they improve the model or the computing power - then all previous assumptions and conclusions are off.
 

bluealberta

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Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Our PM says carbon di

Vicious said:
Thanks Jay - The one thing I love about science is that dissenting opinions are allowed and even encouraged. That's why I get my back up when people try to shut down debate on things like climate change. the next piece of evidence can change the debate entirely. As long at the theories are based on computer models, as soon as they improve the model or the computing power - then all previous assumptions and conclusions are off.

I agree Vicious, and given the amount of supposedly qualified and educated people on both sides of this issue, I am taking a wait ans see attitude. I do know that even if Canada totally shut down the country, we would make a negligible effect in the world, so I don't agree with Canada being a major player in Kyoto.
 

Graeme

Electoral Member
Jun 5, 2006
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Jersay said:
Your dealing with something that can warm the planet by as much as 5 degrees celcius it no laughing matter and having stupid oil-based people in Canada and America doesn't help.

We've already peaked in oil supplies in 2004 so what's the point in listening to these people anymore as it is going to get harder and harder to find oil.

Now thats hilarious, CO2 Cannot raise the climate by 5 degrees
even at the greatest of it's concentration which was around 5 times that of today the earths average temperature was not 5 degrees higher.

Next as I posted before CO2 is not what has raised the temperature as much as it has risen (.6 degrees) Water Vapor is to blame for most of the temperature increase. explination in this feed: http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14637&#221784
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Our PM says carbon di

Vicious said:
Does anyone know how catalytic converters work? Don't they reduce a cars emissions of carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, hydrocarbons and such.

I thought they just re-burned emissions to make them cleaner.
 

Graeme

Electoral Member
Jun 5, 2006
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I don't know if SO2 is a pollutant, I mean volcanoes have been spewing it since they existed.

on a side note S02 actually has a net cooling effect on the climate.
 

bluealberta

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Jersay wrote:
Your dealing with something that can warm the planet by as much as 5 degrees celcius it no laughing matter and having stupid oil-based people in Canada and America doesn't help.

We've already peaked in oil supplies in 2004 so what's the point in listening to these people anymore as it is going to get harder and harder to find oil.

Oh please, who is sounding stupid here? Guess you missed the memo that just came out saying that the oilsands will be able to produce 5 million barrels a day within a few years, up from the current 1 million per day. Hardly sounds like oil has peaked, let alone two years ago.

Supporters of Kyoto appear to be members of a cult, as they refuse to listen to anything or consider anything that refutes or disagrees with them. Good thing Charlie Manson is in jail, or you would have a hell of a leader.
 

Graeme

Electoral Member
Jun 5, 2006
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Re: RE: Our PM says carbon di

Jay said:
Vicious said:
Does anyone know how catalytic converters work? Don't they reduce a cars emissions of carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, hydrocarbons and such.

I thought they just re-burned emissions to make them cleaner.

no, that isn't correct, a catalytic convertor is kind of like a chemical filter.

Catalytic converters these days are called Three-way, and that is because the reduce three regulated emmissions - Carbon monoxide CO, VOC's (volatile organic componds, or esentially evapourated un burned fuel), and Nitrogen oxides NO and NO2.

The catalytic converter does this by pushing the exhaust through one "honeycomb" of Platinum and Rhodium, and another of platinum and palladium. These materials become a catalyst for a chemical reaction to take place converting the two emissions (CO and Nitrogen oxides) to N2, O2, and CO2, which are all non poisonous.

then a sensor reads the oxygen level on the output to control the oxygen put in to the engine, thus ensuring there is ample oxygen to cause all of the fuel to burn, where by virtually eliminating VOC's

Now that I explained it for you go sign my petition as described in this feed: http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15734
 

Vicious

Electoral Member
May 12, 2006
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RE: Our PM says carbon di

Thanks Graeme. I thought they were there to lower pollutants. This is pretty old technology - I bet there is room for improvements to further reduce the Nitrogen Oxides, etc that contribute to smog. Maybe a better place to spend our tax dollars instead of Kyoto credits.
 

bluealberta

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Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Our PM says carbon di

Vicious said:
Thanks Graeme. I thought they were there to lower pollutants. This is pretty old technology - I bet there is room for improvements to further reduce the Nitrogen Oxides, etc that contribute to smog. Maybe a better place to spend our tax dollars instead of Kyoto credits.

You don't mean...........gasp.............spending money on something that might actually............gasp again..........reduce emissions? But I thought buying credits would automatically do that, no?

I think, in all seriousness, that this is actually something the auto industry has worked on to have reduced emissions anyway, but as technology improves, so will their attempts at reducing emissions.