Origin of Universe: God <vs> Big Bang/Non-God theories

[westmanguy]

Ok, when we think of the origin of the universe, the debate can get interesting.

I would like to first state, this has nothing to do with human life, and evolution vs. creationism. Evolution has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

This is about the origin of the universe.

Now, the biggest non-God idea for the origin of it all is The Big Bang Theory.

My basic knowledge of this, is the the idea a mass explosion of matter combusted and created the universe, and over billion-trillions of years, it slowly shaped into what it now is.

The other belief, is God created our universe.

Now, both, scientificall speaking, are out there.

A unproveable supreme deity vs A random chance that everything around us came about from a big bang.

Both, looking at it objectionally, are outlandish ideas.

So, honestly speaking, the one that makes more sense, as things stand now, is a supreme deity creating the universe.

Because, how can everything we all have today, come from a Big Bang, with extreme random chance.

I don't know.. taking, the evolution vs. creationism thing out of the equation, this is the biggest thing going for religion rate now.

How can science ever really trace back the steps and figure out how the entire universe works, and especially with a randon theory like The Big Bang.

Another thought to ponder: Where did this matter come from? Their always was and always is the same amount of matter.

You cannot create or destroy matter. I am correct, right? So if this is true, how does the Big Bang even shape up to make sense.

This is not a religion vs. atheism debate (we already had a full-on war, before in a now locked thread).

This is about people's opinion, with whatever religious affiliation/or lack of, about the universe coming to be.

Heck, we can't even grasp how large the universe is.

Friendly, respectful, and innovative debate please!

 

[AmberEyes]

You cannot create or destroy matter. I am correct, right? So if this is true, how does the Big Bang even shape up to make sense.

You're exactly correct. This is why the universe always has, and always will exist. ^.^ It's like a circle, with no beginning and no ending.

 

[snfu73]

I believe the answer is still out there. Some fantastic discovery will be made in the future that will shed new light on the origins of the universe and either prove either/or theory, or produce a brand new theory. I don't think we know enough yet to determine what the origin of the universe is.

 

[AmberEyes]

I believe the answer is still out there. Some fantastic discovery will be made in the future that will shed new light on the origins of the universe and either prove either/or theory, or produce a brand new theory. I don't think we know enough yet to determine what the origin of the universe is.

I have a feeling that day of understanding is far off in the future. There's no way of knowing what the truth is for quite some time, and I'm content not knowing.

 

[L Gilbert]

Quite right, Amber. I think the same thing might be true of life itself; not individual lives of amoebas and humans, but life in general. Who says there has to be a beginning to some things?

 

[AmberEyes]

Quite right, Amber. I think the same thing might be true of life itself; not individual lives of amoebas and humans, but life in general. Who says there has to be a beginning to some things?

I think it's the first law of biology that states life can neither be created nor destroyed, much like energy can neither be created nor destroyed. There are theories that life started from organic compounds billions of years ago, compounds that created a "prototype" of a cell I guess you could say. No way of proving that however.

 

[L Gilbert]

Those would be hypotheses, Amber, not theories. Theories generally have evidence pointing in a direction. It's my hypothesis that life always existed and others have hypotheses that are as you said. No-one is old enough to say which is correct.

 

[AmberEyes]

Those would be hypotheses, Amber, not theories. Theories generally have evidence pointing in a direction. It's my hypothesis that life always existed and others have hypotheses that are as you said. No-one is old enough to say which is correct.

Haha right, forgive me for mixing the two. I do know they did an experiment to try and provide some evidence, and they got pretty far, but it still wasn't "proof." They didn't actually create a living cell from inorganic material, just organic molecules.

I do like the hypothesis that life has always existed. A lot of people have trouble wrapping their minds around such a "bizarre" thought. I could say more about our limited ability to comprehend things, but I think I'd get in trouble with some of the CC critics. ^.^

 

[L Gilbert]

Yeah, even if life was created, I 'm pretty sure that it would have been created by chance. Given a finite amount of materials (somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred+) energies ( a handful) and billions of years to react with each other, it's highly probable that all the combinations of interaction have happened. And then evolution would have taken over from there.

 

[AmberEyes]

Yeah, even if life was created, I 'm pretty sure that it would have been created by chance. Given a finite amount of materials (somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred+) energies ( a handful) and billions of years to react with each other, it's highly probable that all the combinations of interaction have happened. And then evolution would have taken over from there.

I have no doubt that it was by chance. And, based on what I recently learned, the chances of it actually happening were very very small.

 

[L Gilbert]

Why? What dd you learn that gave you cause to think life's origin was an unlikely event?

 

[lieexpsr]

Ok, when we think of the origin of the universe, the debate can get interesting.

I would like to first state, this has nothing to do with human life, and evolution vs. creationism. Evolution has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

This is about the origin of the universe.

Now, the biggest non-God idea for the origin of it all is The Big Bang Theory.

My basic knowledge of this, is the the idea a mass explosion of matter combusted and created the universe, and over billion-trillions of years, it slowly shaped into what it now is.

The other belief, is God created our universe.

Now, both, scientificall speaking, are out there.

A unproveable supreme deity vs A random chance that everything around us came about from a big bang.

Both, looking at it objectionally, are outlandish ideas.

So, honestly speaking, the one that makes more sense, as things stand now, is a supreme deity creating the universe.

Because, how can everything we all have today, come from a Big Bang, with extreme random chance.

I don't know.. taking, the evolution vs. creationism thing out of the equation, this is the biggest thing going for religion rate now.

How can science ever really trace back the steps and figure out how the entire universe works, and especially with a randon theory like The Big Bang.

Another thought to ponder: Where did this matter come from? Their always was and always is the same amount of matter.

You cannot create or destroy matter. I am correct, right? So if this is true, how does the Big Bang even shape up to make sense.

This is not a religion vs. atheism debate (we already had a full-on war, before in a now locked thread).

This is about people's opinion, with whatever religious affiliation/or lack of, about the universe coming to be.

Heck, we can't even grasp how large the universe is.

Friendly, respectful, and innovative debate please!

Are you trying to be funny now? First you say this is not about evolution/creation and then a few lines later you tell us that you reject the 'big-bang theory'. Nonsense, this is about your need to push creationist beliefs and you know it.

O.K., here's a start for you, considering you are prepared to set yourself up as one who knows enough to host such a thread. Hit the books and learn that evolution has nothing to do with 'random chance'. Learn the difference between that and 'natural selection' and maybe we will have something to talk about. If not, have fun with the teenagers and the mudslingers who are going to attack your beliefs for their evening's entertainment.

Why HECK westmanguy, if you want respect and innovative debate you should have thought about that when you helped to destroy the perfectly good one which was just locked!

 

[gc]

Because, how can everything we all have today, come from a Big Bang, with extreme random chance.

Better yet, how can God come from nothing just by random chance? He couldn't have existed forever, which means he had to be created at some point. For more on this, see this thread: Link

If you say God has always existed, then God must have been around an infinite number of years ago. Now, if I said to you "I am going to do something (for example create humans) in an infinite number of years from now", that means it would never get done, because we will never reach infinite number of years. So, going back in time an infinite number of years from the creation of man, God would have created man infinity years from then, which means it never would have happened. I'm not sure if my explanation is clear, but if there is one thing I am certain about, it is that the Universe (by definition that includes everything including God) must have a finite life time.

 

[lieexpsr]

Why? What dd you learn that gave you cause to think life's origin was an unlikely event?

Life's origin WAS an unlikely event. The relevant question is, what haven't YOU learned?

 

[lieexpsr]

Better yet, how can God come from nothing just by random chance? He couldn't have existed forever, which means he had to be created at some point. For more on this, see this thread: Link

Blah, blah, blah. Who created god?

Oh, wait a minute, god just is!

Question answered as satisfactorily as it will ever be answered by you clowns!

 

[L Gilbert]

Still hung up on me, are you?

Life's origin WAS an unlikely event.

Prove it.

The relevant question is, what haven't YOU learned?

It's only relevant to you.
Now, how'd you like to quit trolling?

 

[lieexpsr]

I have no doubt that it was by chance. And, based on what I recently learned, the chances of it actually happening were very very small.

Good one Ambereyes. You have been paying attention to somebody and I sincerely hope that you have the answer framed in the right context. The chances of life happening are indeed very small. So small that in fact science estimates that of a billion, billion planets which are suitable for supporting some kind of lifeform, only a billion would. That's chances of 1 in 1 billion.

 

[lieexpsr]

Still hung up on me, are you?
Prove it.It's only relevant to you.
Now, how'd you like to quit trolling?

I'm completely finished with you now Jillbear. Just wanted to give you a taste of your own medicine. Get the sound card fixed Jill so you won't have to keep making a fool of yourself.

;-)

And as a matter of fact, I am finished with this thread until something worthwhile comes up to comment on. At least a week I suspect!

 

[L Gilbert]

And after time passes the chances against become smaller. Duh.

 

[karrie]

Ok, when we think of the origin of the universe, the debate can get interesting.

Heck, we can't even grasp how large the universe is.

Friendly, respectful, and innovative debate please!

I feel that intelligent design is at work. And no, I can't logic it out, trust me I've tried. Logic fails at a certain point, to explain the contradiction between what I can sense and what I know. I know that natural selection and evolution are at work. I know the science of it all. But I can sense something bubbling away there beneath the surface, a power that science alone doesn't explain. At least, not yet. It's neat to hear other peoples' views, and I hope you get the peaceful discussion you're hoping for, rather than the judgemental, condescening tripe we've come to expect from these threads.