One of my nuttier political opinions.

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
48
Leiden, the Netherlands
I firmly believe in the legalisation of all recreational drugs. It seems to be a fairly radical stance and I am used to fighting an uphill battle.

It may be considered ironic that a person who once suffered from a drug related mental health breakdown would endorse such a view, however, I believe that families and friends are in the best position to help individuals and they can do so only when they are aware of the problem. Criminalisation only drives the problem underground where the most useful social safety net cannot reach people: users will always deny use.

The major sticking point for most people is the hard drugs. Even if one can convince people of the rationale behind legalising soft drugs, people usually are adamant in their refusal to accept the legalisation of cocaine, heroin, amphetamines and so on. The moral breakdown is inevitable and absolute, it is contended.

Of course, I point out that there is no evidence of this. But most people do not accept a burden of proof. However, I was pointed in the direction of evidence in my favor by one such individual who originally refused to accept the idea.

The largest study ever on cocaine use was conducted in the years from 1992-1994 by the World Health Organization in collaboration with the United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute. Why can you not read these particular findings which were paid for by your tax dollars when you can read other publications from the same institute? Its findings ran counter to the "proven" success of the war on drugs and so it was said by a Mr. Neil Boyer, "If WHO activities relating to drugs fail to reinforce proven drug-control approaches, funds for the relevant programs should be curtailed". So, it was buried.

The documentation was leaked and placed into the public domain. Among other places you can read it here. The picture painted in this document is one which could easily reflect the status of alcohol usage in the world.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ontario
I agree with you, Niflmir. It is much better to legalize, regulate something than to ban it. Besides, think of how much money we will save by legalizing drugs. We spend plenty on war on drugs.

In Netherlands they have a fairly relaxed attitude towards drugs, they usually turn a blind eye towards it. In New York, they are paranoid about drugs, there have been cases in USA of getting long prison sentences for possession of a couple of grams of marijuana. However, there aren’t any more drug addicts in Amsterdam than there are in New York (there may even be less).

The same with prostitution. Prostitution is legal in Amsterdam, illegal in New York. Yet there are more prostitutes in New York than in Amsterdam. Think of how much tax revenue New York is losing.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
UN Backs Drug Decriminalization In World Drug Report


In an about face, the United Nations on Wednesday lavishly praised drug decriminalization in its annual report on the state of global drug policy. In previous years, the UN drug czar had expressed skepticism about Portugal's decriminalization, which removed criminal penalties in 2001 for personal drug possession and emphasized treatment over incarceration. The UN had suggested the policy was in violation of international drug treaties and would encourage "drug tourism."
But in its 2009 World Drug Report, the UN had little but kind words for Portugal's radical (by U.S. standards) approach. "These conditions keep drugs out of the hands of those who would avoid them under a system of full prohibition, while encouraging treatment, rather than incarceration, for users. Among those who would not welcome a summons from a police officer are tourists, and, as a result, Portugal's policy has reportedly not led to an increase in drug tourism," reads the report. "It also appears that a number of drug-related problems have decreased."
 

DichotoMe

Nominee Member
Jan 6, 2009
70
1
8
CBI
I also agree with the idea. In Amsterdam you can't just walk around town doing bumps off the mailboxes or smoking joints. Drug use is out of sight and out of mind. If you buy something in a narc bar you have to consume it there or in your apartment I believe.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
It's your body. You should be able to do whatever you wish with it.

What if I want to wear a body condom and jump into a giant vagina with the clap?

(Ooops! Did I say that? Damn! The cat is out of the bag or is that "the pussy is out of the box"?)
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ontario
Drugs are illegal because the govt needs the money.

That doesn’t make sense, petros. If government wanted money, the right thing to do is to legalize drugs. If drugs were legal, government would save enormous amount by shutting down the war on drugs. Also they can tax drugs and raise revenue. Similar to what they do with tobacco.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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That doesn’t make sense, petros. If government wanted money, the right thing to do is to legalize drugs. If drugs were legal, government would save enormous amount by shutting down the war on drugs. Also they can tax drugs and raise revenue. Similar to what they do with tobacco.

Some of the bad drugs would become very good drugs if they were legalized and that would be very bad for sales and taxation of other drugs because of the huge decreases in production costs of the former bad ilieagle drugs. We've been researching cannabis for twelve thousand years now I think it's safe and ready to introduce to the public.
 

Polygong

Electoral Member
May 18, 2009
185
3
18
Between Ireland and Russia
The only possible downside to legalisation of drugs is increase in use. I'm sure that there would be an initial increase, but the social benefits to the legalisation would far outweigh the harms of increase in use.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Ontario
The only possible downside to legalisation of drugs is increase in use. I'm sure that there would be an initial increase, but the social benefits to the legalisation would far outweigh the harms of increase in use.

There probably would be an initial increase. But once the novelty value wears of, I suspect eventually drugs will come to be regarded as tobacco is regarded today.

Smoking was very popular at one time. But slowly the public perception of smoking changed from a cool, sophisticated pastime to a nasty, filthy and disease ridden addiction. If government had banned tobacco say 20 years ago, I suspect illegal tobacco consumption would be greater than the legal consumption today.

If drugs were legalized I suspect eventually they will go the way of tobacco.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
So, bring me up to snuff on this. If drugs were sold legally, would the cost be
much much lower than it is now?
My concern is the safety of citizens like myself, and our houses and contents,
that we spent our lives collecting, and buying with hard earned money.
The drug addicts think nothing of knocking people like myself black and blue,
and stealing whatever they can, I have nothing but resentment for people like
that, and wish nothing but the worst for them, I disrespect them immensely for
being so so weak they can't live their lives without stuffing drugs into themselves,
then they expect 'us' to give them our goods to buy the drugs , and have no
thought of 'what' they are doing to us, while behaving like maniacs.

How would legalizing drugs prevent the crime.
 
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SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ontario
So, bring me up to snuff on this. If drugs were sold legally, would the cost be
much much lower than it is now?


Indeed, talloola, the price would be much lower than it is today. Rather than drugs coming in illegally (where they can charge enormous prices on the street), they will be imported legally and their price will be decided by market forces. Again, look to Netherlands as a model.

Drug related crime will decrease considerably. Government will save plenty of money in law enforcement, court costs (trying the drug dealers, drug addicts etc.) and rehabilitation.

How would legalizing drugs prevent the crime.

If a fix of cocaine or crack costs five dollars instead of 50 $ (or whatever it costs these days), many people will be able to afford it and there will be no need for them to commit crime, to rob somebody to pay for their fix. You could buy it in the supermarket, same as you can buy tobacco today.


Or perhaps government could tack on another dollar to the price and use the money thus raised for rehabilitation, to discourage teen agers from using drugs etc., just like they do with tobacco these days.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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There probably would be an initial increase. But once the novelty value wears of, I suspect eventually drugs will come to be regarded as tobacco is regarded today.

Smoking was very popular at one time. But slowly the public perception of smoking changed from a cool, sophisticated pastime to a nasty, filthy and disease ridden addiction. If government had banned tobacco say 20 years ago, I suspect illegal tobacco consumption would be greater than the legal consumption today.

If drugs were legalized I suspect eventually they will go the way of tobacco.

Cannabis has many thousands of years of confirmed use among humans so your forcast is fataly flawed.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
So, bring me up to snuff on this. If drugs were sold legally, would the cost be
much much lower than it is now?

Indeed, talloola, the price would be much lower than it is today. Rather than drugs coming in illegally (where they can charge enormous prices on the street), they will be imported legally and their price will be decided by market forces. Again, look to Netherlands as a model.

Drug related crime will decrease considerably. Government will save plenty of money in law enforcement, court costs (trying the drug dealers, drug addicts etc.) and rehabilitation.

How would legalizing drugs prevent the crime.

If a fix of cocaine or crack costs five dollars instead of 50 $ (or whatever it costs these days), many people will be able to afford it and there will be no need for them to commit crime, to rob somebody to pay for their fix. You could buy it in the supermarket, same as you can buy tobacco today.


Or perhaps government could tack on another dollar to the price and use the money thus raised for rehabilitation, to discourage teen agers from using drugs etc., just like they do with tobacco these days.

Yeah, that makes sense, but what a 'circle' of failure, buy the drugs, or booze,
drink it or however you get it into your body, turn into a frankenstein type
individual, or a robot, or whatever, wander around the street, (legally) in
some sort of stupor, sleep it off somewhere, then start all over. Don't know
how it would reduce the number of users, if it is cheaper, more will probably
buy the product, and our streets will look like a outdoor mental institution.
What a sight to behold for aliens who decide to land here, and have a good
look at 'who we are', how disgusting, and embarrassing, it is shamefull to
look at 'what we have become'.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Vancouver Island
Got my vote. I have been after this for years. I fully support legalizing possession of all recreational drugs and treat addictions as a health problem because it is far cheaper and more successful than pretending addicts are criminals. There are far more serious addictions caused by big pharma and their tame pill pushers than all recreational drugs combined.
Talloola: It is simple. Drug addiction has nothing to do with being weak, it is a disease, probably genetic. Drugs are distributed like alcohol, profits used to run treatment centers. Read up on the four pillars program. This eliminates the crime aspect, they we can get rid of a few thousand social workers and jail guards who have a vested interest in the status quo. Police could spend their time on other matters as well.