Omnibus Russia Ukraine crisis

spaminator

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Canadian fighting with Ukrainian forces dies in battle: reports
Author of the article:Canadian Press
Canadian Press
Published Jan 17, 2023 • 1 minute read

Global Affairs Canada says it’s aware of the death of a Canadian citizen after reports that a young medical student fighting with Ukrainian forces was killed in battle.


Multiple media reports say Grygorii Tsekhmistrenko died on Sunday near the city of Bakhmut.


A friend of Tsekhmistrenko’s spoke with The Canadian Press while on his way to meet the fighter’s family to help make funeral arrangements.

Adam Thiemann says he got word from a soldier in Ukraine that Tsekhmistrenko was killed Sunday in the contested eastern Donetsk region, where fighting has raged for months.

Thiemann says he fought alongside Tsekhmistrenko for months as part of the Ukrainian Foreign Legion.

He says the medic, a dual citizen, was a beloved member of his unit who studied tactical medicine before joining the Foreign Legion.

“He was just so happy to help. He’s not the medic who didn’t want to be there or will take a shortcut,” he said.

Jack Frye, a friend who also fought alongside Tsekhmistrenko, said the medic returned to Ukraine when the war started.



“He was one of the more gentle and kindest people I’ve met. He lived and breathed doing what was right and helping others,” he said in an email exchange.

“Everyone loved Greg. I am glad I had the privilege to be his friend, and fight alongside him.”
 
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spaminator

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Ukraine helicopter crash kills interior minister, others
State Emergency Service said at least 14 people were killed, including 9 aboard helicopter, and a child on ground

Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Malak Harb
Published Jan 18, 2023 • 4 minute read

BROVARY, Ukraine — A helicopter carrying Ukraine’s interior minister crashed into a kindergarten in a foggy residential suburb of Kyiv on Wednesday, killing him and about a dozen other people, including a child on the ground, authorities said.


Interior Minister Denys Monastyrskyi, who oversaw the country’s police and emergency services, is the most senior official killed since Russia invaded nearly 11 months ago. His death, along with the rest of his ministry’s leadership and the entire helicopter crew, was the second major calamity in four days to befall Ukraine, after a Russian missile struck an apartment building in the southeastern city of Dnipro, killing dozens of civilians.


There was no immediate word on whether the helicopter crash, which occurred on a foggy morning in the capital’s eastern suburb of Brovary, was an accident or related to the war. Ukrainian authorities immediately opened an investigation. No fighting has been reported recently in the capital region.


President Volodymyr Zelenskyy — addressing the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, by video link — said the crash had a broad connection to the war.

“This is not an accident because it has been due to war and the war has many dimensions, not just on the battlefields,” he said after asking the Davos audience to join him in a standing minute of silence to honour those killed. “There are no accidents at wartime. These are all war results.”

Ukraine’s State Emergency Service, which was operating the French-manufactured Super Puma helicopter, said at least 14 people were killed, including nine on the helicopter, and a child on the ground. It said 25 people were injured, including 11 children. Early official reports gave differing numbers of casualties.


At the scene of the crash and ensuing fire, plastic sheets covered at least four bodies. Workers cleared charred and mangled wreckage lying against an apartment building and in the kindergarten’s playground. Some walls were partly demolished and blackened. The helicopter’s blackened rotors protruded from a destroyed car and rested on the roof of a building’s entrance.

Kyiv regional Gov. Oleksii Kuleba told Ukrainian television that emergency services were still identifying remains and that the death toll could rise.

The crash killed five Interior Ministry officials, one national police official and all three helicopter crew members, the Ukraine National Police said. Monastyrskyi’s deputy Yevhen Yenin and State Secretary of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Yurii Lubkovych were among the dead, the police said.


Monastyrskyi, 42, was in charge of police and emergency services that dealt with the consequences of Russian strikes and de-mining, political analyst Volodymyr Fesenko told The Associated Press.

Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said National Police Chief Ihor Klymenko has been appointed acting interior minister.

Senior Ukrainian officials routinely travel by helicopter at low altitudes and high speed during the conflict, increasing the inherent dangers associated with the flights. The tragedy may prompt Kyiv to institute a rule many countries and companies follow stating that top officials shouldn’t fly on the same aircraft, Fesenko said.

The officials on the helicopter were due to visit Ukraine’s northeastern Kharkiv region, local police chief Volodymyr Tymoshko said, adding on Facebook that they were “not just leaders,” but “friends who I respected.”


The helicopter was sold to Ukraine before the war in 2019, a French defence official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to be identified, according to ministry policy.

The Security Service of Ukraine is investigating “all possible versions” of the crash, prosecutor general Andriy Kostin said on Telegram.

The crash came at a particularly dark period in the war for Ukraine, just days after the Russian strike on the apartment building in southeastern Ukraine killed 45 people, including six children — the deadliest attack on civilians since the spring.

“The pain is unspeakable,” Zelenskyy wrote on Telegram.

“Another very sad day today — new losses,” said his wife, Olena Zelenska, dabbing teary eyes as she responded to the news at the economic conference in Davos, where she was mustering support for Ukraine.


White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby called the crash “heartbreaking.”

British Home Secretary Suella Braverman called Monastyrskyi “a leading light in supporting the Ukrainian people during (Russian President Vladimir) Putin’s illegal invasion.” She said she was “struck by his determination, optimism and patriotism.”

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who is facing pressure to send tanks to Ukraine, tweeted that the crash “shows once again the huge price that Ukraine is having to pay in this war.”

In Wednesday’s other developments:

— Putin defended his invasion by offering a variation on arguments he has used previously. He told a group of veterans that Moscow’s actions were intended to stop a “war” that has raged since 2014 in eastern Ukraine, where Russia-backed separatists have battled Ukrainian forces.


“All what we are doing today as part of the special military operation is an attempt to stop this war. This is the meaning of our operation — protecting people who live on those territories,” he said.

Ukraine and its Western allies have rejected Russia’s justifications arguments, saying Kyiv posed no threat to Moscow and the invasion was unprovoked.

— Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Moscow’s goals in Ukraine are “determined by Russia’s core legitimate interests.”

“There must be no military infrastructure in Ukraine that poses a direct threat to our country,” Lavrov said at his annual news conference. He claimed the goal of Ukraine’s Western allies is to use the conflict to exhaust Russia.

— Fighting continued in eastern Ukraine around the city of Bakhmut and the nearby salt mining town of Soledar, according to Donetsk Gov. Pavlo Kyrylenko. A total of 14 cities and villages were shelled in the partially occupied Donetsk region in the previous 24 hours, Ukraine’s presidential office said. Two civilians were wounded.

It added that Russian forces also shelled residential areas of the southern city of Kherson, which Kyiv’s military retook in November. Four people were wounded.

— Associated Press writers Andrew Meldrum in Kyiv, Angela Charlton in Paris and Yuras Karmanau in Tallinn, Estonia, contributed.
 

petros

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Netherlands would consider helping Ukraine with F-16 fighters, Leopard 2 tanks

The Dutch Cabinet will look into supplying F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine if the Kyiv government asks for it. During a parliamentary debate on Thursday, Minister Wopke Hoekstra of Foreign Affairs said the Cabinet would look at such a request with an “open mind.” In Davos, Minister Kajsa Ollongren of Defense also said that the Netherlands is willing to help pay for modern Leopard 2 tanks that other countries send to Ukraine. “That is certainly something we are willing to do,” she told Bloomberg.

Hoekstra said there are “no taboos” for the delivery of regular equipment. Sjoerd Sjoerdsma (D66) asked the Cabinet to supply F16s and infantry fighting vehicles to the Ukrainian armed forces. Many fear that Russia will launch another major offensive in the coming months.

According to Hoekstra, the Netherlands only sends items that Ukraine asks for. Kyiv currently mainly needs heavy weapons. The country has been asking for modern battle tanks for some time. Poland and Finland want to send the German Leopard 2 tanks, but they need permission from Germany.

Berlin is dithering. The German government is under intense pressure to allow these tanks to go to Ukraine. The Netherlands is willing to help pay to get the tanks in Ukraine, Ollongern said in Davos, but the delivery must take place within a European or NATO coalition.

“We are waiting for Germany’s position on this, but I am in favor of trying to find a solution and sending tanks to Ukraine,” Ollongren told Bloomberg. “Every time, we have shown that we are able, together, to provide Ukraine with what they need.”
 
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The_Foxer

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Germany announced it will approve a request from Poland to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. Berlin requires countries to seek permission to re-export the German-made tanks.

Yet Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly would not say Tuesday whether the day's developments changed anything for Canada.
"What I can tell you is that we will co-ordinate with our allies," she told reporters in French.

Soooo - our allies are sending tanks. So you're 'co-ordinating' with them by not sending tanks.... how?

I get we don't have that many. But the fact is if others are sending the same type of tank then even if we send a small number it still makes a difference.
 

petros

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Soooo - our allies are sending tanks. So you're 'co-ordinating' with them by not sending tanks.... how?

I get we don't have that many. But the fact is if others are sending the same type of tank then even if we send a small number it still makes a difference.
We have 100 leopards and leopards 2s.
 

spaminator

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Senior Ukrainian officials depart amid corruption crackdown
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pledged to launch a staff shake-up amid high-level corruption allegations

Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Published Jan 24, 2023 • Last updated 1 day ago • 2 minute read

LYIV, Ukraine — The deputy head of Ukraine’s presidential office quit Tuesday, after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pledged to launch a staff shake-up amid high-level corruption allegations during the war with Russia.


Kyrylo Tymoshenko asked to be relieved of his duties, according to an online copy of a decree signed by Zelenskyy and Tymoshenko’s own social media posts.


Neither gave a reason for the resignation.

Deputy Defense Minister Viacheslav Shapovalov also resigned, local media reported, alleging his departure was linked to a scandal involving the purchase of food for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Deputy Prosecutor General Oleksiy Symonenko also quit.

Tymoshenko joined the presidential office in 2019, after working on Zelenskyy’s media and creative content strategy during his presidential campaign.

Zelenskyy had promised personnel changes in the government, regional administrations and security forces following corruption allegations that emerged after Russia’s invasion last February.


Tymoshenko last year was under investigation relating to his personal use of luxury cars. He was also among officials linked last September to the embezzlement of humanitarian aid worth more than $7 million earmarked for the southern Zaporizhzhia region.

He has denied all the allegations.

Zelenskyy vowed to drive out corrupt officials in comments on Sunday, when a deputy minister was dismissed for being part of a network embezzling budget funds. Ukraine’s infrastructure ministry later identified the dismissed official as Vasyl Lozynsky, a deputy minister there.

In his nightly video address, Zelenskyy said that Ukraine’s focus on the war would not stop his government from tackling corruption.

Zelenskyy, who came to power in 2019 on an anti-establishment and anti-corruption platform, pointed to suspicions in the areas of energy and military procurement.


He said he intended the deputy minister’s dismissal to send “a signal to all those whose actions or behavior violate the principle of justice.”

“I want to be clear: There will be no return to what used to be in the past,” Zelenskyy said.

Oleksandr Kubrakov, the infrastructure minister, said Lozynsky was relieved of his duties after Ukraine’s anti-corruption agency detained him while he was receiving a $400,000 bribe for helping to fix contracts related to restoring infrastructure facilities battered by Russian missile strikes.

A statement by the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine described Lozynsky as part of “an organized criminal group involved in the embezzlement of budget funds.”

It said its detectives were working to identify the group’s other members.

In other developments:

Russian shelling overnight killed one civilian and wounded two others near the eastern city of Bakhmut, the epicenter of the fighting in recent months, regional Gov. Pavlo Kyrylenko said Tuesday.

Russian forces also shelled nine towns and villages in the northern Sumy region, which borders Russia, killing a young woman and wounding three other people, local Gov. Dmytro Zhyvytskyy reported on Telegram.

He said the casualties all lived in the same house, which suffered a direct artillery hit.

 

spaminator

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Ukrainian corruption scandal costs top officials their jobs
Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Andrew Meldrum
Published Jan 24, 2023 • 5 minute read

KYIV, Ukraine — Several senior Ukrainian government officials lost their jobs as President Volodymyr Zelenskyy sought Tuesday to contain a burgeoning corruption scandal amid the nearly 11-month-old Russian invasion.


The high-level shakeup came as Poland formally requested permission from Germany to transfer a modest number of its Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine. Germany builds the high-tech armor and Warsaw needs Berlin’s permission to send them to a non-NATO country.


Zelenskyy was elected in 2019 on an anti-establishment and anti-corruption platform in a country long plagued by graft, and the new allegations come as Western allies are channeling billions of dollars to help Kyiv fight against Moscow.

The deputy head of Ukraine’s presidential office, Kyrylo Tymoshenko, quit as Zelenskyy pledged to address allegations of graft — including some related to wartime spending — that embarrassed authorities and could slow Ukraine’s efforts to join the European Union and NATO.


Tymoshenko asked to be relieved of his duties, according to an online copy of a decree signed by Zelenskyy and Tymoshenko’s own social media posts. Neither cited a reason for the resignation.

Deputy Defense Minister Viacheslav Shapovalov also resigned, local media reported, alleging his departure was linked to a scandal involving the purchase of food for Ukraine’s armed forces. Deputy Prosecutor General Oleksiy Symonenko also quit.

In all, four deputy ministers and five regional governors were set to leave their posts, the country’s cabinet secretary said on the Telegram messaging app.

Authorities did not announce any criminal charges against the outgoing officials. There was no immediate explanation.


The departures thinned the government’s wartime ranks as Zelenskyy already had lost his interior minister, who oversaw Ukraine’s police and emergency services, and others in the ministry’s leadership in a helicopter crash last week.

Tymoshenko joined the presidential office in 2019, after working on Zelenskyy’s media and creative content strategy during his presidential campaign.

He was under investigation relating to his personal use of luxury cars and also was among officials linked in September by an investigator working with the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine to the embezzlement of humanitarian aid worth more than $7 million earmarked for the southern Zaporizhzhia region. He has denied all the allegations.


On Sunday, a deputy minister at the infrastructure ministry, Vasyl Lozynsky, was fired for being part of a network allegedly embezzling budget funds.

Lozynsky was relieved of his duties after Ukraine’s anti-corruption agency detained him while he was receiving a $400,000 bribe for helping to fix contracts related to restoring facilities battered by Russian missile strikes, according to Infrastructure Minister Oleksandr Kubrakov.

In his nightly video address Sunday, Zelenskyy said Ukraine’s focus on the Russian invasion would not stop his government from tackling corruption.

“I want to be clear: There will be no return to what used to be in the past,” Zelenskyy said.

Analysts say he wanted to send a message that corruption won’t be tolerated.


Zelenskyy “really does a lot in order to get the support from Western countries,” said Andrii Borovyk, the executive director of Transparency International Ukraine, a nonprofit organization that fights corruption.

“And it’s very hard to save the country when there’s a lot of corruption,” he told The Associated Press.

Last June, the EU agreed to put Ukraine on a path toward membership in the bloc. In order to join, countries must meet economic and political conditions, including a commitment to the rule of law and other democratic principles.

Ukraine has long aspired to join NATO, too, but the military alliance is not about to offer an invitation, because of the country’s contested borders, defense establishment shortcomings and, in part, its corruption issues.

Meanwhile, the delivery of an expected 14 Leopard tanks from Poland appeared to be a foregone conclusion, with the main outstanding question being when it will happen.

German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said Sunday that Berlin wouldn’t seek to stop Poland providing the versatile tanks to Kyiv if it asked, and Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said Tuesday the Poles — and other Western allies he didn’t identify — are already training Ukrainian soldiers in Poland on the Leopards.

German officials confirmed to the dpa news agency they had received the Polish application and said it would be assessed “with due urgency.”

Poland is a leading advocate in the EU for giving military aid to help Ukraine. Though Germany has become one of Ukraine’s main weapons suppliers, other Western allies — especially Poland and the Baltic countries on NATO’s eastern flank that feel especially threatened by Russia — have shown impatience with Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s perceived slowness to act.

Polish Defense Minister Mariusz BÅ‚aszczak appealed to Germany “to join the coalition of countries supporting Ukraine with Leopard 2 tanks” — a reference to pressure on Berlin to send some of its own tanks. Germany has hesitated to take that step, despite Ukraine’s pleas.

“This is our common cause, because it is about the security of the whole of Europe!” BÅ‚aszczak tweeted.

Morawiecki aimed another political broadside at Berlin.

“I hope the response from the German side comes quickly this time, because the Germans are lingering, dodging, acting in a way that is difficult to understand,” Morawiecki said. He claimed Germany was unwilling to defend Ukraine more broadly, speculating: “Does it mean fear, some not entirely comprehensible dread or faith that a return to normal relations with Russia is possible?”

Article content
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg called for the speedy delivery of new weapons to Ukraine, where a broad battlefield stalemate in winter is expected to give way to new offensives in the spring.

“At this crucial moment in the war, we need to provide Ukraine with heavier and more advanced systems, and we need to do it faster,” Stoltenberg said Tuesday after talks with German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius in Berlin.

Polish officials have indicated that Finland and Denmark are ready to join Warsaw in sending Leopards to Ukraine. Poland wants to send a 14-strong company of the tanks, but these would barely make an impression in a war that involves thousands of tanks. If other countries contribute, Warsaw reckons, the tank detachment could grow in size.

Also on Tuesday, Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto suggested his country may consider joining NATO without neighboring Sweden if Turkey continues to block their joint bid to enter the military alliance. Although he later backpedaled, his comments were the first time a leading government official in either Nordic country appeared to raise doubts about becoming NATO members together at a time when the alliance is seeking to present a united front in the face of the war in Ukraine.

Sweden and Finland rushed to apply for NATO membership following Moscow’s invasion, abandoning long-standing nonalignment policy. Their accession needs the approval of all existing NATO members, including Turkey, which has so far blocked the expansion, saying Sweden in particular needs to crack down on exiled Kurdish militants and their sympathizers.

In other developments:

Ukraine’s presidential office said at least five civilians were killed and seven others were wounded over the previous 24 hours. One Russian rocket hit a school in eastern Ukraine, killing one person, Donetsk region Gov. Pavlo Kyrylenko said.

Russian forces shelled nine towns and villages in the northern Sumy region, which borders Russia, hitting a house where a woman was killed and three other people were wounded, Gov. Dmytro Zhyvytskyy said on Telegram.
 

The_Foxer

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We won't send tanks to Ukraine because we don't have any that work.



Adam Zivo: How Canada sabotaged its own fleet of tanks​


Maybe the reason we can't provide tanks to Ukraine is because a decade of neglect has rendered a significant portion of our tanks inoperable

Author of the article:
Adam Zivo

Published Jan 25, 2023 • Last updated 23 hours ago • 5 minute read

504 Comments

Leopard 1 tank
A Leopard 1 C2 tank sits on a flatbed ready to make the trip back to Canada from Kandahar Airfield in 2011. Photo by MCpl Dan Shouinard, Senior Imagery Technician, MTTF © 2011 DND-MND Canada


When asked last week about whether Canada will send tanks to Ukraine, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said, “We’re not there yet.” As it turns out, maybe the reason we aren’t “there” is because a decade of neglect has rendered a significant portion of our tanks inoperable.

To understand how Canada managed to sabotage its own fleet of tanks, it is important to understand some history.





In the mid-1970s, then-prime minister Pierre Trudeau reluctantly refreshed Canada’s arsenal of tanks by purchasing new Leopard 1 tanks from West Germany. Our NATO allies had demanded that Canada maintain a presence in Europe to deter a possible Soviet invasion, so procurement was primarily driven by foreign policy, not military, concerns.

Then, the Cold War ended and, throughout the ’90s, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) debated whether to switch to medium-weight heavy vehicles, which are nimbler than tanks but also more fragile. The debate was fraught, as critics argued that lighter vehicles would inadequately protect Canadian personnel.

In 2003, Canada decided to decommission the Leopard 1s and shift away from using tanks more generally, but was prevented from doing so by the war in Afghanistan. Fearful of casualties stemming from inadequate armour, Canada sent its Leopard 1s to the Middle East but quickly realized that newer vehicles were needed.

Ottawa subsequently purchased a fleet of over 80 slightly-used Leopard 2 tanks (a newer, but nonetheless decades-old model) from the Netherlands. The fleet cost $650 million to acquire and was expected to cost another $650 million to maintain over 20 years.

As with the preceding fleet, the purchase of the Leopard 2s had a political dimension — the continued use of tanks was seen as critical for maintaining Canada’s perceived commitment to its allies.

When Canada concluded its Afghan combat operations in 2011, the tanks were put into storage and essentially abandoned. There isn’t much public information on what happened over the ensuing decade and media coverage on the state of the tanks has been virtually nonexistent.

However, in recent years, the Canadian Forces College has published two academic papers alleging that chronic under-investment in maintenance has left Canada’s tank fleet “barely usable.”

As these are academic papers, they don’t necessarily reflect the opinions of any government department. However, both documents brim with detail and citations, and each was authored by senior CAF officers. Together, they are more than credible enough to raise eyebro
The first paper, “Leopards Without Claws,” written by Maj. Matthew D.C. Johns in 2018, argues that, despite a decade of troubleshooting, Canada’s tanks are a “hollow capacity that could not be deployed in support of (Government of Canada) direction.”

According to Maj. Johns, the CAF initially estimated that the Leopard 2’s maintenance requirements would be roughly the same as the Leopard 1’s. However, whereas Leopard 1C2 tanks require an average of 296 hours per year in maintenance, the Leopard 2 requires 1,795 hours — a six-fold increase. This “significant underestimation” left the fleet in “dire straits.”

Likewise, according to the report, the CAF had only half the technicians needed to adequately service the Leopard 2s. With the training rate of new technicians being “far below the required numbers,” it estimated that it would take at least 10 years (2028, based on time of writing) to fill the gap, assuming only minimal attrition of personnel. But multiple indicators suggested that the Leopard 2s would be obsolete by then.

Even worse, Maj. Johns wrote that the Leopard 2 fleet suffered from a chronic shortage of critical components, which at one point led to “a culture of cannibalizing and robbing of vehicles” to ensure that a minimum number of tanks would be available for key exercises. By 2018, the cannibalization issue had allegedly subsided, but the ongoing, total unavailability of some crucial parts meant that some tanks were impossible to repair.

General infrastructure for tank maintenance was also allegedly inadequate. For example, neither of the two usable training areas for tanks in Canada — Wainwright and Gagetown — had the facilities needed to maintain Leopard 2s in large quantities. As such, storage facilities were allegedly retrofitted into de facto work bays, leading to tanks being stored outside while repair work was done in cramped storage buildings, further exacerbating maintenance issues.

By Maj. Johns’ 2018 estimation, only 15-20 per cent of Canada’s Leopard 2 tanks were typically usable (if needed, a maximum of 30 per cent could be put into service). “The current approach to managing and employing the Leo 2 FoV is institutionally unsound, logistically unsupportable and rapidly approaching
obsolescence,” he wrote.

And the situation does not appear to have improved since then. Last year, Maj. Michael Timms authored a paper, “Understanding Tank Serviceability in the Canadian Army,” which reiterated many of Maj. Johns’ concerns, though with a bit more optimism. He wrote that “a perception persists that the deployment of tanks is not possible,” but that “existing perceptions frequently exaggerate the extent of the situation.”

According to Maj. Timms’ research, the CAF was able to keep, on average, 15 of 39 tanks maintained at an operable level (the remaining tanks appear to have been in storage). However, that figure puts the “serviceability rate” of the total fleet at only 18 per cent, seemingly affirming Maj. Johns’ dismal assessment.

Maj. Timms believed Canada suffered from a “lack of strategic investment in tank sustainment.” Technicians were “nearing the point of maximum efficiency within the resource envelope available” and, although they had managed to slow down the deterioration of the fleet, the CAF would need to double the number of available technicians and parts to increase the number of usable tanks.

Ultimately, Maj. Timms felt that if Canada’s Leopard 2 fleet cannot be maintained at a level that allows it to be useful beyond training exercises, then “justifying the existence” of tanks in the Canadian Army would be “challenging.”

I asked the Department of National Defence about how much money has been spent on maintaining Canada’s Leopard 2 tanks so far and how many of the tanks are currently operable. The department could not readily provide the requested expenditure figures and, due to operational security concerns, was unable to confirm how many Leopard 2s are currently usable.

And what happened to the Leopard 1 tanks? After decommissioning them in 2017, Canada tried to find buyers for the approximately 60 surplus Leopard 1s that remained from the original fleet of 127. It proved near-impossible to find a buyer who matched Canada’s human rights commitments and whose purchase would not have destabilizing political effects.

After a last-ditch effort to sell the tanks to Jordan fell through due to concerns about disrupting Israeli security, the CAF gave up on finding a buyer. In 2021, a Quebec-based company was contracted to gut the tanks. A few of the decommissioned Leopard 1s were used as historical monuments in small towns, but the majority were used for target practice.

Perhaps the Leopard 2s will share a similar fate.

National Post
 

petros

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Leopards are obsolete and the 20 Leopard 2s we have were leased from Germany. They aren't ours to send without rewriting the lease with the Bundeswehr.
 

petros

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Leopards are obsolete and the 20 Leopard 2s we have were leased from Germany. They aren't ours to send without rewriting the lease with the Bundeswehr.
Read the article.
Read what I wrote and then read the article or read up on more yourself.

There are 20 leased Leopard 2s in our inventory. That's it.

After trying to sell to antique Leopards to Jordan, 45 went off to Primrose to be used as targets, 4 went to museums.

Go ahead and google. Find anything that says we bought Leopard 2s and I'll buy you a 6 pack


Please try to keep up.
 

petros

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After an initial assessment of the performance of the Leopard C2 in Afghanistan, Canada decided to invest in Leopard 2 tanks. It was determined that the lack of adequate air conditioning, essential in the searing heat of Afghanistan, was degrading the tank crew's war fighting ability.[19] The Army later downplayed this factor, citing increased armour protection and the main gun armament as reasons for upgrading to the Leopard 2.[20] After some public speculation, Canadian Defence Minister Hon. Gordon O'Connor clarified the situation in April 2007.[21]

To meet immediate needs in Afghanistan, 20 of the Bundeswehr's stock of Leopard 2A6s were upgraded to the 2A6M standard and loaned to Canada at no cost by the German government. Two Leopard 2 Büffel Armoured Recovery Vehicles were acquired at the same time. These vehicles were shipped from Germany to Afghanistan, with the first arriving on 16 August 2007.[22]

For the long term, Canada plans to replace the borrowed Leopard 2 tanks with a purchase of 100 surplus vehicles from the Netherlands,
including 20 Leopard 2A6Ms for combat service, 40 Leopard 2A4s for training, and 20 support vehicles, such as Armoured Recovery Vehicles, Bridge-Layers and Armoured Engineer vehicles.

The older Leopard C2 tanks were considered completely obsolete by 2015, but specific plans for them have not yet been announced. Until deployment with the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan, the Leopard 1 C2 had never seen active combat.[23]

In February 2018, Canada attempted to sell the surplus Leopard 1C2 tanks to the Jordanian Armed Forces. In July, it was announced that the plan to sell the older Leopard tanks to Jordan fell through and the Canadian Department of National Defence has yet to decide what to do with the surplus vehicles.[24] Daniel Le Bouthillier, a spokesperson for the Canadian Department of National Defense, said "the last option would be to destroy the tanks."[25]

As of November, 2021, no buyer was found for the Canadian Army's Leopard 1C2 tanks, "About 45 retired Canadian Army tanks will soon be used for target practice at the Cold Lake Air Weapons Range."[26][27] A Vegreville Alberta company, Quest Disposal & Recycling Inc., was contracted to repurpose them to be used for target practice at Cold Lake Air Weapons Range, and the tanks were at the company's site being processed in December 2021.[28]
 

The_Foxer

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Read what I wrote and then read the article or read up on more yourself.re
I did. You're simply wrong. i don't know why you do this.

After an initial assessment of the performance of the Leopard C2 in Afghanistan, Canada decided to invest in Leopard 2 tanks

So they LOANED us (not "leased" us as you originally claimed) 20 tanks - then we BOUGHT tanks.

Also from the article:

Ottawa subsequently purchased a fleet of over 80 slightly-used Leopard 2 tanks (a newer, but nonetheless decades-old model) from the Netherlands. The fleet cost $650 million to acquire and was expected to cost another $650 million to maintain over 20 years.

Purchased. not leased. Over 80. Not 20

It's right in the article i told you to read but you obviously didn't or couldn't. So there wasn't much searching involved. Seriously how the hell did you screw that up?

Go ahead and google. Find anything that says we bought Leopard 2s and I'll buy you a 6 pack
You owe me a 6 pack.


How many Leopard 2s does the Canadian military have?

The Canadian Army currently has 112 Leopard 2s in its inventory. These include 82 designed primarily for combat, as well as 12 that are configured to recover disabled tanks from the battlefield and 18 that can be used for building bridges and other engineering tasks.

There's a million google results that discuss how many tanks we have. How the hell could you be so uneducated that you thought we only had 20.

And who the hell 'leases' a tank? That's not even a thing, countries either lend tanks, give tanks, or sell tanks. What, you're going to return the tank at the end of the lease and hope it's mileage isn't too high? No where in ANY story does it say we leased anything.

Sigh. Whatever kiddo. You keep the beer, sounds like you need it more than me.
 

The_Foxer

House Member
Aug 9, 2022
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Nope no 6 pack. Which model of Leopard 2s are being asked for, how many do we have, where and how did we get them?
Doesn't matter. Your statement: "There are 20 leased Leopard 2s in our inventory. That's it." No mention of any type.

Actual number - 82.

You also claimed we 'leased' tanks from the germans. We did not.

And don't worry - i knew you were the kind to welsh on a bet to begin with, nobody expected you to keep your word so i'm not upset or anything.

This is why noone takes you seriously. You literally can't even read and comprehend a story that was put right in front of your face. I TOLD you nicely to read it again and you doubled down on the stupid.

Anyway - obviously we have over 80 tanks. But - due to lack of maintenance there's only a handful working, so it's going to be hard to send any. And that's the actual story here.