Nice American Article: US vs. Canada

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

You should argue facts instead of emotionally-based diatribes, Jay.

Most people are very interested in the fact that a two tier or privatised system would cost them more. Canadians are repulsed by a system that causes people to die because they are poor.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

You should argue facts instead of emotionally-based diatribes, Jay.

Most people are very interested in the fact that a two tier or privatised system would cost them more. Canadians are repulsed by a system that causes people to die because they are poor.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Reverend Dear said:
My view is that many Canadians don't have to share my view, just quit trying to shove their view down my throat.

I moved this quote of yours over here to help demonstrate my opinion exactly.

It can be used in a couple other threads we have discussed around here.

I would simply change your wording a bit, and instead of "trying to shove" I would use "shoving".




Much of the money in Ontario has gone to revamp the clinic system since it is known that it is impossible to find enough doctors.

And this is the sort of thing I can expect in the future. If the public wants free health care this is the sort of health care they can expect, clinics. Under a two-tier system, the users of the system can have their clinics, and I will keep my family doctor.

My boss who's over 50 and a business man who provides plenty more to the socialist system then he takes out, lost his doctor, they can't find another one. Same with his brother. I inherited my wife’s family doctor. If he leaves and we can't find a doctor, were moving in with Reverend Dear.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Reverend Dear said:
My view is that many Canadians don't have to share my view, just quit trying to shove their view down my throat.

I moved this quote of yours over here to help demonstrate my opinion exactly.

It can be used in a couple other threads we have discussed around here.

I would simply change your wording a bit, and instead of "trying to shove" I would use "shoving".




Much of the money in Ontario has gone to revamp the clinic system since it is known that it is impossible to find enough doctors.

And this is the sort of thing I can expect in the future. If the public wants free health care this is the sort of health care they can expect, clinics. Under a two-tier system, the users of the system can have their clinics, and I will keep my family doctor.

My boss who's over 50 and a business man who provides plenty more to the socialist system then he takes out, lost his doctor, they can't find another one. Same with his brother. I inherited my wife’s family doctor. If he leaves and we can't find a doctor, were moving in with Reverend Dear.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Reverend Dear said:
My view is that many Canadians don't have to share my view, just quit trying to shove their view down my throat.

I moved this quote of yours over here to help demonstrate my opinion exactly.

It can be used in a couple other threads we have discussed around here.

I would simply change your wording a bit, and instead of "trying to shove" I would use "shoving".




Much of the money in Ontario has gone to revamp the clinic system since it is known that it is impossible to find enough doctors.

And this is the sort of thing I can expect in the future. If the public wants free health care this is the sort of health care they can expect, clinics. Under a two-tier system, the users of the system can have their clinics, and I will keep my family doctor.

My boss who's over 50 and a business man who provides plenty more to the socialist system then he takes out, lost his doctor, they can't find another one. Same with his brother. I inherited my wife’s family doctor. If he leaves and we can't find a doctor, were moving in with Reverend Dear.
 

marcarc

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
30
0
6
There is no point pretending to call canadians 'lefties' or communists or any such foolishness, the states have almost as high taxation and your health care costs could ruin you. Even the american government has done studies that show public healthcare is more effective and efficient. If Paul Martin hadn't taken an axe to transfer payments we would quite literally have the best health care in the world. Most people look at the effects of an underfunded health care system and claim that it 'doesn't work' or that 'its free'. That's like buying a car and refusing to pay for gas and then bitching because it won't run. We KNOW how to make health care great, but look at the forces every average person in the world is up against.
 

marcarc

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
30
0
6
There is no point pretending to call canadians 'lefties' or communists or any such foolishness, the states have almost as high taxation and your health care costs could ruin you. Even the american government has done studies that show public healthcare is more effective and efficient. If Paul Martin hadn't taken an axe to transfer payments we would quite literally have the best health care in the world. Most people look at the effects of an underfunded health care system and claim that it 'doesn't work' or that 'its free'. That's like buying a car and refusing to pay for gas and then bitching because it won't run. We KNOW how to make health care great, but look at the forces every average person in the world is up against.
 

marcarc

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
30
0
6
There is no point pretending to call canadians 'lefties' or communists or any such foolishness, the states have almost as high taxation and your health care costs could ruin you. Even the american government has done studies that show public healthcare is more effective and efficient. If Paul Martin hadn't taken an axe to transfer payments we would quite literally have the best health care in the world. Most people look at the effects of an underfunded health care system and claim that it 'doesn't work' or that 'its free'. That's like buying a car and refusing to pay for gas and then bitching because it won't run. We KNOW how to make health care great, but look at the forces every average person in the world is up against.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

Very true Marc. You'll have to excuse JJ. He's of the opinion that we're all just trying to steal his money and that he's the only one who works or pays taxes.

He's so afraid that he might actually pay 2 cents more than the next guy that he's said he's willing to pay more for the same service he'd get if health-care was properly funded.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

Very true Marc. You'll have to excuse JJ. He's of the opinion that we're all just trying to steal his money and that he's the only one who works or pays taxes.

He's so afraid that he might actually pay 2 cents more than the next guy that he's said he's willing to pay more for the same service he'd get if health-care was properly funded.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Nice American Article

Very true Marc. You'll have to excuse JJ. He's of the opinion that we're all just trying to steal his money and that he's the only one who works or pays taxes.

He's so afraid that he might actually pay 2 cents more than the next guy that he's said he's willing to pay more for the same service he'd get if health-care was properly funded.
 

passpatoo

Electoral Member
Aug 29, 2004
128
0
16
Algoma
Re: Private health care.

I used to work as a paramedic in the Niagara Region where a number of nursing homes are privately owned and operated. Working in the field I do, I get to see the insides of nursing homes alot and therefore have a good repository of experiences to compare private vs. more publicly operated facilities. By and large, the condition of private nursing homes I have seen is deplorable. Overcrowding, minimal care, poor care, drab, institutional etc. Not the sort of place where one wants thier loved ones spending thier final years. Exceptions to this exist, but they tend to be very high end (read expensive) facilities.

The most poignant example I can give is when my partner and I were called to one such private nursing home for a resident short of breath. We arrived at the bedside of this person and assessed them to be near death. Our Base Hospital Doctor in Niagara was/is pretty progressive. Unlike pretty much everywhere else in the province, depending on the situation, family members could provide us paramedics with an on the spot, verbal, Do Not Resuscitate Order (DNR) for thier loved one. This is what happened with the patient we were now attending to; however, also present at the bedside was a nurse/ representative of the company that owned the nursing home. The company rep. started argueing with the patients family and us as to whether or not we would attempt a recuscitation or not, They wouldn't want to lose a paying customer after all. . It was always extremely difficult for me to have to ask a family member if they wanted thier loved one resuscitated or not. You can see the anguish in thier faces after being presented with such a decision, and, having to make such a decision in a couple of seconds (not minutes). And yet here is this company rep. argueing with these same people, after having just gone through this process, all for the sake of the bottom line.
No, the further we move away from private health care the better we all are.
 

passpatoo

Electoral Member
Aug 29, 2004
128
0
16
Algoma
Re: Private health care.

I used to work as a paramedic in the Niagara Region where a number of nursing homes are privately owned and operated. Working in the field I do, I get to see the insides of nursing homes alot and therefore have a good repository of experiences to compare private vs. more publicly operated facilities. By and large, the condition of private nursing homes I have seen is deplorable. Overcrowding, minimal care, poor care, drab, institutional etc. Not the sort of place where one wants thier loved ones spending thier final years. Exceptions to this exist, but they tend to be very high end (read expensive) facilities.

The most poignant example I can give is when my partner and I were called to one such private nursing home for a resident short of breath. We arrived at the bedside of this person and assessed them to be near death. Our Base Hospital Doctor in Niagara was/is pretty progressive. Unlike pretty much everywhere else in the province, depending on the situation, family members could provide us paramedics with an on the spot, verbal, Do Not Resuscitate Order (DNR) for thier loved one. This is what happened with the patient we were now attending to; however, also present at the bedside was a nurse/ representative of the company that owned the nursing home. The company rep. started argueing with the patients family and us as to whether or not we would attempt a recuscitation or not, They wouldn't want to lose a paying customer after all. . It was always extremely difficult for me to have to ask a family member if they wanted thier loved one resuscitated or not. You can see the anguish in thier faces after being presented with such a decision, and, having to make such a decision in a couple of seconds (not minutes). And yet here is this company rep. argueing with these same people, after having just gone through this process, all for the sake of the bottom line.
No, the further we move away from private health care the better we all are.
 

passpatoo

Electoral Member
Aug 29, 2004
128
0
16
Algoma
Re: Private health care.

I used to work as a paramedic in the Niagara Region where a number of nursing homes are privately owned and operated. Working in the field I do, I get to see the insides of nursing homes alot and therefore have a good repository of experiences to compare private vs. more publicly operated facilities. By and large, the condition of private nursing homes I have seen is deplorable. Overcrowding, minimal care, poor care, drab, institutional etc. Not the sort of place where one wants thier loved ones spending thier final years. Exceptions to this exist, but they tend to be very high end (read expensive) facilities.

The most poignant example I can give is when my partner and I were called to one such private nursing home for a resident short of breath. We arrived at the bedside of this person and assessed them to be near death. Our Base Hospital Doctor in Niagara was/is pretty progressive. Unlike pretty much everywhere else in the province, depending on the situation, family members could provide us paramedics with an on the spot, verbal, Do Not Resuscitate Order (DNR) for thier loved one. This is what happened with the patient we were now attending to; however, also present at the bedside was a nurse/ representative of the company that owned the nursing home. The company rep. started argueing with the patients family and us as to whether or not we would attempt a recuscitation or not, They wouldn't want to lose a paying customer after all. . It was always extremely difficult for me to have to ask a family member if they wanted thier loved one resuscitated or not. You can see the anguish in thier faces after being presented with such a decision, and, having to make such a decision in a couple of seconds (not minutes). And yet here is this company rep. argueing with these same people, after having just gone through this process, all for the sake of the bottom line.
No, the further we move away from private health care the better we all are.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
So how do all of public health care supporters respond to the Swedish system that is intoducing more and more private health care facilities and the public and the government are calling it a overwhelming success.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
So how do all of public health care supporters respond to the Swedish system that is intoducing more and more private health care facilities and the public and the government are calling it a overwhelming success.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
So how do all of public health care supporters respond to the Swedish system that is intoducing more and more private health care facilities and the public and the government are calling it a overwhelming success.