More fear in America then Canada about plot

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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WASHINGTON - A U.S. congressman who says Canada's in denial about terrorism is applauding as "sound advice" the idea of shutting out immigrants and refugees until the country fixes its security risks.

Indiana Republican John Hostettler, who held a hearing Thursday on Capitol Hill, also said the House of Representatives shouldn't agree to delay strict new border identification measures in light of Canada's sweeping anti-terror arrests last week.

"We do not want to have to worry about a neighbour that has a very different attitude than we do about terrorism," Hostettler said after the meeting.

Americans, he added, would demand the Canada-U.S. border be shut down in the event of another terrorist attack like the one on Sept. 11, 2001, even if Canada played no role.

He accused Prime Minister Stephen Harper of "laughing off" an alleged terrorist beheading plot when he quipped last week that he can "live with all these threats as long as they're not from my caucus."

And Hostettler, who chairs a judiciary subcommittee, had nothing but praise for the views of David Harris, a Canadian security analyst, who used to be with the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

Harris told the legislators that Canada's immigration system is a big part of its terrorist problem, noting the country takes in double the number of immigrants and three or four times the refugees as the United States.

He suggested a moratorium on newcomers and opposes extending a deadline requiring a passport or high-technology identification card at land crossings beyond Jan. 1, 2008.

"We are in a life and death struggle and a race against time," he said.

And if the views of subcommittee members were any indication, Canada's push for a delay could face a rough ride in the House.

Representatives facing re-election this year have been anxious to show that they're tough on security and not solely penalizing the Mexican border with a huge crackdown on illegal immigrants.

Canada's worried the ID plan will cause huge lineups at the border, seriously denting trade and tourism.

Senators have already agreed to postpone the measure until June 1, 2009, but the issue must be resolved between the House and Senate.

Despite a recent U.S. government report that says the plan likely can't be implemented in time, a Homeland Security official insisted Thursday it will be finished.

"It is far too early to declare defeat. I have every expectation we will hit the deadlines," said Paul Rosenzweig, acting assistant secretary for policy development,

"Every day of delay is another day of risk on the northern border."

Although he admitted the technology for new ID cards hasn't yet been chosen and no contracts let, he said a year from now would be time enough to consider a delay.

Rosenzweig said U.S. officials are negotiating with Canadians about any additional documents that might be acceptable but said they must have the "equivalent security and validity" of a passport.

Homeland Secretary Michael Chertoff "made no secret deal to accept a baptismal certificate" when he met Canada's Public Safety Minister Stockewell Day earlier this year, he said.

Day has said American officials have promised they'd look at approving enhanced drivers' licences and birth certificates.

It was clear from the subcommittee meeting that Canada's sweeping counterterrorism operation last week is giving some the jitters.

"Canada's problem is growing," said Janice Kephart, a border security expert who served as a counsel to the 9-11 commission.

Demanding passports of all Canadians entering the U.S. is the best solution, she said, because it forces terrorists to either go to a passport office in Canada or try to get in illegally.

"It forces them into a corner."

Kephart also supports more border patrol agents along the Canadian line, noting there's one for every 400 metres along the Mexican border but only one agent every 22 kilometres in the north.

It seems the fact that Canada even has terrorists came as a huge surprise to some.

"Until a few days ago, few among us were particularly aware that Canada hosts an abundance of terrorists and as many as 50 terrorist organizations," Hostettler told the committee.

"I hope the arrests in Canada of 17 Jihadists, mostly homegrown, will cause the opponents of secure borders to reconsider, because the threat won't go away."

Canadian immigrants, he said, "demonstrate an unsuccessful adoption of traditional Canadian values, or at least, a lack of assimilation by many north of the U.S. border."

"I do believe we in the United States have a much more clear focus on the problem of terrorism and have moved beyond denial that our own citizens are capable of terrorism. That doesn't seem to be the case north of the border."

Harris agreed, saying Canadians are used to seeing themselves as peacemakers and Boy Scouts.

"It's very hard for such a people to perceive that they could be the object of a rabid hatred," he said.

"Canadians are at least a generation behind in understanding the nature and scope" of the terrorist threat.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w0608117A.xml

Now I understand that America should be scared by the supposed plot and they should be but I believe they should make suggestions at the most, not demanding what Canada should do and not do with its immigration policy. We are still a foreign country.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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Re: Fear in America of Canada

Some of these suggestions are, in my opinion, quite unnecessary.

The suggestion that we should freeze our entire immigration system because of the arrest of seventeen persons is, I would suggest, quite inappropriate — the vast majority of immigrants to Canada conduct themselves in a manner that should make the nation proud. These suspected terrorists, even if convicted, don't represent any of our immigrant communities.

As for the suggestion that The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada should have taken the situation more seriously, I would in fact suggest that Mr. Harper took care of this situation in a very effective manner. The Government of Canada, and representatives from Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, the New Democratic Party of Canada and the Bloc Québécois are going to discuss the need to increase security on the precinct. Mr. Harper's joke was made in an effort to keep up the spirits of the people of Canada in a time which could easily have become one of panic, and for that he should be commended. He ensured that the people of Canada would continue to be vigilant, while ensuring that people would need engage in a massive "freak-out."
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Agreed. And since some of these people were born here what does the U.S congressmen want. US to deport Canadian born here to some foreign country.

Get real, and get a life and worry more about America instead of trying to force Canada to do what you want.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
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RE: More fear in America

Sounds to me like this Hostettler guy is a bit of a fruitcake. This IS the political system that found room for Zell Miller and his onion soup recipe all those years.

any guesses how empty the room was?
 

gc

Electoral Member
May 9, 2006
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Jersay said:
Agreed. And since some of these people were born here what does the U.S congressmen want. US to deport Canadian born here to some foreign country.

Get real, and get a life and worry more about America instead of trying to force Canada to do what you want.

I couldn't agree more.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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gc said:
Jersay said:
Agreed. And since some of these people were born here what does the U.S congressmen want. US to deport Canadian born here to some foreign country.

Get real, and get a life and worry more about America instead of trying to force Canada to do what you want.

I couldn't agree more.

Naw.

Let's try them for treason...........and (IF found guilty) throw them in a deep dark prison cell for ever and ever.....amen.

Except for the kids.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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I personally think the Americans don't understand this situation. The first comments out of the government of the USA was that Canada was laxed with it's immigration policy, when all of them were basically home grown and has little to nothing due to immigration. Secondly I don't think some members of the government do not understand how weekend warrior and stupid these terrorists were. The threat level from these morons were minimal. The group was too large and easy thus to infiltrate. The group was not split into secrect cells thus when infiltrating the group you find out the membership of every member with only minimal effort again.

Secondly they trained in populated area's. The police were called about them many times and they've been investigated for a very long time.

The threat will come from that highly trained cell of terrorists of 3-6, whom were mainly trained most likely in Africa or the middle east in a terorist training camp. These guys were goffs at best.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Finder, this hick from Indiana should not be taken seriously. When the police in Toronto caught these pricks they were being hailed all over the US news for 2 days straight by government and media.
 

Finder

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Dec 18, 2005
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Alright... But I'm pretty sure I've seen some other CNN and Fox "Experts" echo some of the same things.

Really these punk kids were nothing like a real terrorist threat. Though I do think the RCMP and CSIS may have made these guys look a little better then they were just as a propaganda type move to show that the RCMP and CSIS is doing the job they are ment to do. I think both the RCMP and CSIS need to work a little harder in these area's, and we shouldn't trick ourselfs thinking that the RCMP/CSIS could protect us from a real terrorist cell.


Man I'm sounding like a Neo-Con almost. lmao
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Finder said:
Alright... But I'm pretty sure I've seen some other CNN and Fox "Experts" echo some of the same things.

Really these punk kids were nothing like a real terrorist threat. Though I do think the RCMP and CSIS may have made these guys look a little better then they were just as a propaganda type move to show that the RCMP and CSIS is doing the job they are ment to do. I think both the RCMP and CSIS need to work a little harder in these area's, and we shouldn't trick ourselfs thinking that the RCMP/CSIS could protect us from a real terrorist cell.


Man I'm sounding like a Neo-Con almost. lmao

If they had been able to pull this off... would that have made them "real" terroist?

I am glad that they caught them before they became terrosist.
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
647
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Finder said:
Alright... But I'm pretty sure I've seen some other CNN and Fox "Experts" echo some of the same things.

Really these punk kids were nothing like a real terrorist threat. Though I do think the RCMP and CSIS may have made these guys look a little better then they were just as a propaganda type move to show that the RCMP and CSIS is doing the job they are ment to do. I think both the RCMP and CSIS need to work a little harder in these area's, and we shouldn't trick ourselfs thinking that the RCMP/CSIS could protect us from a real terrorist cell.


Man I'm sounding like a Neo-Con almost. lmao

In general the US and Canadian security forces work very closely on these issues.

And thse guys were a real terrorist threat. Had they obtained the fertilizer and loaded it they would have been riding on a bomb. They already had the detonators. That is how close they were. The US has totally bungled the Iraq war yet a war was started. As well a psycho can enter a post office and kill a lot of people. One does not have to be all that competent to create a disaster.

What's with the title of this thread?
 

vulpine

New Member
Jun 4, 2006
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now are they suggesting total freeze on ALL immigration, are just immigration of muslims, because if so that's racial profiling

and i agree, to say that immigration is the source of them problem really avoids the real issue

its like when they say that all of the gang violence in Toronto is an immigration problem, when in reality they need to look at the socio-economic factors that lead people to gangs in the first place.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Absolutely.

And Canadian immigration is that Canadian immigration not the deal for America to get involved with. If they want to stop immigration stop immigration in their own country.

And agree with you about the gangs good point.