Michael Ignatieff's version of Liberalism

[Jay]

Hey Jay the analogy I used doesn’t include the liberals because they are not in power. Come on Jay Harper is a short term PM who thinks he is in for ever I know Harper is not here for ever or a full term. Just wait until the Afghani war turns for the worst and trust it will, and then you tell me how popular Harper will be then. Now we are all speculating on wishful thinking.

Harper has been in power for about 4 months.

 

[Vicious]

Re: RE: Michael Ignatieff's version of Liberalism

Vicious, the Conservatives have a record that proves that they do not give you what you signed up for. Have you forgotten the rope around the Conservative doll PM's neck Lien Brain Mulroney. Have you conveniently forgot the horrible exit the Tories got back then when the Tories almost got wiped out of the Canadian political map? Come on Jay what smell are you talking about. The Tory smell is about to come back in Canada, and the fear is, should the Tories get a majority, the Canadian voter will be running like a pig on the way to the slaughter house. Jay freedom is good, dictatorship shucks.

Socrates, I can't go back into the past and change those things. I lived through the Mulroney years but was a young rebel at the time. I was a screw authority, eat the rich, punk. I'm older and wiser now. I know my choices are between this group of power hungry bums or that group of power hungry bums. I voted to throw the last group of bums out. And if this group doesn't perform to my standards I'll vote to throw them out too. However as it sits today. This group is better than the last based solely on the fact that they are doing what they promised. I don't agree with everything they promised but at least they are delivering.

This thread is about one of the Liberal candidates for leadership so let me ask this of all the liberal supporters. Based on the record of the candidates you support, what makes you think they will keep their promises?

 

[vishliberal]

Re: RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

I think that the reason Micheal Ignatieff is gaining steam is because he is the Trudeau type of personna that the Liberal Party is crying for after Chretian/Martin. He is the kind of liberal that would take the party back to the moderate left (instead of the moderate right that Martin took it to).

I think Liberals are tired of the whole Martin/Chretien warfare, and want an outsider that can claim was not part of any camp.

They want a star candidate that will galvanize the party from its pathetic state quickly...cuz the Cons are gaining steam in Canada..so whoever takes over will have to be strong from the get go.



I can't see any other candidate, save for Stephan Dion, that will rescue the Liberal party quickly and effectively nation wide.

dani, great and true observation, Stephan Deon doesn’t have the same charisma as Michael Ignatieff. You are correct in saying that the Liberal party and Canada need a strong moderate left thinker. Ignatieff so far in his speeches have shown that he could be what we envision a moderate left thinker to be.

Michael Ignatieff is the best guy for the job right now. He is very smart, and can restore true liberalism in the party. His chances of winning right now are very high because he has lots of support, I look forward to seeing him in the next election!

 

[vishliberal]

Re: RE: Michael Ignatieff's version of Liberalism

Vicious, the Conservatives have a record that proves that they do not give you what you signed up for. Have you forgotten the rope around the Conservative doll PM's neck Lien Brain Mulroney. Have you conveniently forgot the horrible exit the Tories got back then when the Tories almost got wiped out of the Canadian political map? Come on Jay what smell are you talking about. The Tory smell is about to come back in Canada, and the fear is, should the Tories get a majority, the Canadian voter will be running like a pig on the way to the slaughter house. Jay freedom is good, dictatorship shucks.

Socrates, I can't go back into the past and change those things. I lived through the Mulroney years but was a young rebel at the time. I was a screw authority, eat the rich, punk. I'm older and wiser now. I know my choices are between this group of power hungry bums or that group of power hungry bums. I voted to throw the last group of bums out. And if this group doesn't perform to my standards I'll vote to throw them out too. However as it sits today. This group is better than the last based solely on the fact that they are doing what they promised. I don't agree with everything they promised but at least they are delivering.

This thread is about one of the Liberal candidates for leadership so let me ask this of all the liberal supporters. Based on the record of the candidates you support, what makes you think they will keep their promises?

Except for a select few of candidates who have rare chances of winning, the rest of the candidates are great. I must ask you, what politician doesnt have a "record" as you put it? Look at Stephen Harper when he was running for Conservative leadership. HIS record was anything but good, he was a very controversial man. According to you he is delivering now. I can ask you the same question, what makes you think that he will keep his promises in the future? You can base it solely on the "record" of the candidates. Furthermore many candidates have great records, look at Gerard Kennedy. 10 years of political experience, became education minister in 2003. Now we know that the PC education system ran under Harris' government was horrible, but Kennedy did a great job and has a great political "record". So, that question can be applicable to any candidate and was applicable to Harper when he was running for leadership of the conservatives. Not many would have thought then, because of his "record" that he would have been reliable and accountable. Now look at him, according to you hes delivering. That particular question has its faults and any of those candidates have the potential to keep their promises, political records can only help to an extent. Its also basic logic. The se candidates wont want to disobey their promises right now, look at the state of the Liberal party, they cant afford it. Its common sense.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Re: RE: Michael Ignatieff's version of Liberalism

Vicious, the Conservatives have a record that proves that they do not give you what you signed up for. Have you forgotten the rope around the Conservative doll PM's neck Lien Brain Mulroney. Have you conveniently forgot the horrible exit the Tories got back then when the Tories almost got wiped out of the Canadian political map? Come on Jay what smell are you talking about. The Tory smell is about to come back in Canada, and the fear is, should the Tories get a majority, the Canadian voter will be running like a pig on the way to the slaughter house. Jay freedom is good, dictatorship shucks.

Socrates, I can't go back into the past and change those things. I lived through the Mulroney years but was a young rebel at the time. I was a screw authority, eat the rich, punk. I'm older and wiser now. I know my choices are between this group of power hungry bums or that group of power hungry bums. I voted to throw the last group of bums out. And if this group doesn't perform to my standards I'll vote to throw them out too. However as it sits today. This group is better than the last based solely on the fact that they are doing what they promised. I don't agree with everything they promised but at least they are delivering.

This thread is about one of the Liberal candidates for leadership so let me ask this of all the liberal supporters. Based on the record of the candidates you support, what makes you think they will keep their promises?

Vicious chance is they won’t. The question is which one of the two bums has a secret agenda? Looking at History for a guide the answer is not so difficult.

 

[Vicious]

RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

Ahh yes the old secret agenda. Now I see where you're coming from 'secret agenda' that's the bad one, right? Not the good secret agenda. I was hoping they'd go with the good secret agenda, I voted against the bad secret agenda at the secret agenda formulation meeting.

What was the secret agenda again?

I'm not sure who to credit with this quote but I'll use it anyway. 'Every time I drive my car by looking through the rear view mirror I crash it'.

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

versus.... driving forward without checking your rear view mirrors every once in a while to make sure you are clear and safe?

You can't look only to the past, but you can't look to the future without having at least a backward glance.

 

[gc]

RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

While I personally don't have any problem with Ignatieff, I don't think he will be as successful (if he wins the leadership) as people are hoping. His support for afghanistan (and questionable support for Iraq) will hurt him with centre-left and left voters who will turn to the NDP. Those on the right will just choose the conservatives. If the liberals are smart and choose Kennedy, the NDP will be obsolete. Why vote for Jack when you can vote for Kennedy?

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

The problem with Kennedy is name recognition outside of Ontario. He needs to step up his profile significantly to make inroads. Otherwise Libs outside of Ontario will ultimately vote for the guy with buzz and name recognition.

 

[gc]

RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

After announcing his candidacy for leadership of the liberal party, Kennedy became more known outside of Ontario. Anybody even thinking of voting for the liberals could easily learn more about him, especially with the internet. I also think he will do well in the west, having been born in manitoba and having lived in edmonton. I also think he will do well in quebec with his more progressive values, especially if he decides to live there. And most importantly, I don't think anybody can say anything bad about his integrity or his past (unlike many of the candidates).

 

[Semperfi_dani]

RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

I think the problem is (and I am an actual card carrying Liberal), is that there are too many fish in the pond. I pray that some will reflect over the summer and drop out so that i can look more closely at those that are making a serious run.

 

[gc]

Re: RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

I think the problem is (and I am an actual card carrying Liberal), is that there are too many fish in the pond. I pray that some will reflect over the summer and drop out so that i can look more closely at those that are making a serious run.

I can't argue with that. I know a few that I would like to see gone.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Re: RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

I think the problem is (and I am an actual card carrying Liberal), is that there are too many fish in the pond. I pray that some will reflect over the summer and drop out so that i can look more closely at those that are making a serious run.

I can't argue with that. I know a few that I would like to see gone.

Hey Guys Bob Ray scares me only because his time as Ontario Premier was not a very popular one. He has made some political enemies back then that will come back to haunt him during this leadership run for the Liberal top job. :lol: :lol: :wink:

 

[vishliberal]

Re: RE: Michael Ignatieff's v

While I personally don't have any problem with Ignatieff, I don't think he will be as successful (if he wins the leadership) as people are hoping. His support for afghanistan (and questionable support for Iraq) will hurt him with centre-left and left voters who will turn to the NDP. Those on the right will just choose the conservatives. If the liberals are smart and choose Kennedy, the NDP will be obsolete. Why vote for Jack when you can vote for Kennedy?[/quote]

LOL very interesting line there, I can see that being a campaign slogan for Kennedy

 

[bluealberta]

Ignatieff is what happens when you clone Trudeau and send him to a US school. Libs may think he is the answer, but he would be a disaster for Canada. IMNTBHO.