Loss of right to vote for Canadians abroad

[Niflmir]

It occurs after five years living abroad as mentioned in the buried paragraph 222 of the Canada elections act. This does not occur if you are working for the government or an international orgainization and occurs if you want to come back to Canada or not.

The problem being, after 5 years, you will essentially be a citizen of nowhere. A Canadian in passport alone, with no right to have your voice heard by democracy anywhere in the world.

Is it acceptable to cast our citizens away like this? After 1 and 1 quarter of a government's term? If it is acceptable then shouldn't we, by symmetry, be forced to allow permanent residents of 5 years the right to vote?

 

[lone wolf]

Nobody ever said the Elections Act was fair. My Grand dad lost his right to vote in 1972 because he was a Brit - even after signing on Sept 11 1941 and doing his part for King, country and Canada in Sicily and Italy. He wasn't a Canadian citizen in all those years before.

 

[Niflmir]

Nobody ever said the Elections Act was fair.

It is legislation in an ostensibly democratic society, so if considered unfair, it can be changed. Therefore, this thread.

 

[wulfie68]

If one doesn't reside in the country, or pay taxes to the country how do they contribute to the society? This may be seen as inflammatory by some but its meant as an honest question.

 

[Niflmir]

If one doesn't reside in the country, or pay taxes to the country how do they contribute to the society? This may be seen as inflammatory by some but its meant as an honest question.

But that leads into the second question I posed: if a person resides there and pays taxes (the permanent resident) shouldn't they then be allowed to vote?

If the argument against allowing a person to vote goes like that, then the same argument implies that we should let permanent residents vote.

 

[lone wolf]

The nix on Grand dad was: "You're not a citizen".... and he was bored to death through a "phoney war" in Britain (except for a leave in France that turned out to be REAL exciting) and fought like Hell through a real one in Italy with the 48th Highlanders of CANADA.

 

[wulfie68]

But that leads into the second question I posed: if a person resides there and pays taxes (the permanent resident) shouldn't they then be allowed to vote?

If the argument against allowing a person to vote goes like that, then the same argument implies that we should let permanent residents vote.

Sure, if they are willing to take that final step and become a citizen. Its ultimately up to an individual a) where they choose to reside and b) if they want to be a fully participating member. Conversely if you decide to reside somewhere else and support a different society, why should your old country be obligated to you?

 

[karrie]

Sorry Niflmir, but, I disagree. Having people vote who don't pay taxes here, should have limits. If you want badly enough to have a say in the country, you should be in the country. The fact that your rights in that respect last for five years seems ample to me.

 

[china]

Sorry Niflmir, but, I disagree. Having people vote who don't pay taxes here, should have limits. If you want badly enough to have a say in the country, you should be in the country. The fact that your rights in that respect last for five years seems ample to me.

-Convicts are in a country ,can they / do they vote ?
-do they pay taxes ?......on what ?... or should I say .."do they contribute to the society "?
-some are convicts for more than 5 ys.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

-Convicts are in a country ,can they / do they vote ?

Yes, in Canada they can, and do.

-do they pay taxes ?......on what ?

Yes, if they have an income they'll pay taxes on it.

Voting is one of the most basic and important rights of citizenship and I cannot agree that there are any circumstances under which a government can legitimately deprive a citizen of that right.

 

[wulfie68]

-Convicts are in a country ,can they / do they vote ?
-do they pay taxes ?......on what ?... or should I say .."do they contribute to the society "?
-some are convicts for more than 5 ys.

I don't think they should be allowed to vote either, but for different reasoning: they have violated society's laws and usually that means they have infringed in some fashion on the rights of others. I think it is only fitting that their right to influence society be curtailed until they have completed their sentence in full.

 

[karrie]

-Convicts are in a country ,can they / do they vote ?
-do they pay taxes ?......on what ?... or should I say .."do they contribute to the society "?
-some are convicts for more than 5 ys.

I don't agree with giving convicts the right to vote for our government either.

 

[china]

Dexter Sinister ,
Quoting china

-Convicts are in a country ,can they / do they vote ?
​

Yes, in Canada they can, and do.

Would you vote for an ex -cone if he was running for a position of ....say a Police Chief or an MP or a kinder garden principal ?
Just wondering ....as usual ..

​

 

[lone wolf]

Would you vote for an ex -cone if he was running for a position of ....say a Police Chief or an MP or a kinder garden principal ?
Just wondering ....as usual ..

​

My, but you HAVE been out of the country a while haven't you? ;-) There is a fair bit of difference between VOTING and RUNNING for office. An EX-con has every right to VOTE. For the record, while incarcerated, a person should not have the right.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Dexter Sinister ,​

Quoting china​

Would you vote for an ex -cone if he was running for a position of ....say a Police Chief or an MP or a kinder garden principal ?
Just wondering ....as usual ..​

Serge LeClerc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I can't vote for this guy 'cuz I'm not
in his riding...but he's most likely less of a criminal than the people I can vote for
in the riding that I reside in....

 

[Niflmir]

Sorry Niflmir, but, I disagree. Having people vote who don't pay taxes here, should have limits. If you want badly enough to have a say in the country, you should be in the country. The fact that your rights in that respect last for five years seems ample to me.

But see, I haven't formed an opinion, I have implied a dichotomy, so you cannot really disagree with me. Answering the one question and ignoring the other isn't really fair.

Now, I reside outside of Canada, it is true. And I am more up to date on many issues in Canadian national politics than many Canadians who live in Canada. I am on this site because my interests are chiefly Canadian and I plan to come back to the country some day. I maintain economic connections with Canada and in fact do pay taxes. I experience the world with a mindset that compares things to Canadian ways of doing things. If people think that all of this doesn't entitle me to a say in the affairs of my nation, and Canada is my nation, then so be it, but there is a hypocricy in the laws.

How can one deny that I should have some democratic say in the affairs of the world? If not in Canada, then in my current nation of residence.

This is the dichotomy:

Why should my only options be to become German or to move back to Canada? Is this really the message we want to be sending? How is it not hypocritical to deny the right to vote for citizens based on residency outside of Canada and not grant it to permanent residents living in Canada for the same time period? If the citizenship doesn't matter in the one case, then how can it matter in the other?

In this case, what does citizenship become except the right to vote for residents? Since a resident could be Canadian in everything culturally but citizenship. If so, then what a meaningless thing it means to be a Canadian citizen.

 

[Machjo]

I could actually agree with losing the right to vote while residing abroad, as long as the policy is consistent (i.e. is the right to vote based on residency or citizenship?). Personally, I think residency makes more sense, because we're normally affected more by our local environment wherever we happen to live at any given moment than the land of our citizenship regardless of where we are living at any given point in time.

 

[karrie]

You're quite right Niflmir, I jumped to a conclusion about where your questions were leading the reader, and, I didn't answer both in this thread, but I did discuss it where you brought it up elsewhere.

To boil it down to its simplest form... you are either a citizen impacted by the decisions of the vote, or you are not.

People who live here and choose not to take status, while you are right, they are impacted, have chosen not to be actual citizens. That is their choice. Conversely, people living abroad have chosen not to live here, not to be impacted by the decisions made by their vote.

I don't see it as throwing citizens away... they are still citizens and regain every right to vote when and if they return. But it is acknowledging that people can't choose the geography, or the passport, as convenience items and hold sway over the vote of those who are present citizens.

 

[china]

lone wolf

My, but you HAVE been out of the country a while haven't you?

Not long enough , lw .

There is a fair bit of difference between VOTING and RUNNING for office.

Obviously I realize that ,though you seam to have trouble finding (mentally)" reasons I,m using this type of questioning in my post .
What I,m saying is: would a person who feels that a rapist , a murderer , a kidnapper has a right to vote (while in prison)? Would that person vote for "any of the above " after they were released and have done their time?

 

[lone wolf]

lone wolf
Not long enough , lw .

Obviously I realize that ,though you seam to have trouble finding (mentally)" reasons I,m using this type of questioning in my post .

It's not obvious you realize that. Why don't you try to explain without the typically China ignorance?

Vote.... Run for office.... You really need to screw your head on tighter.


...or is it just the fight you want. In that case .... Cage it!