Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat.

I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin.

If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved?

Regards
DL
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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What is this "Sin" thing?
I live my life, treat others with the respect that they treat me. End of story.
Sin is considered missing the mark or doing harm to others.

Seems you are not in favor of using a scapegoat. Good enough.

More important than what you state, is how you treat those who do not do as you do and who make victims out of gays and women with homophobia and misogyny.

How do you treat those Christians? Respect or something else?

Regards
DL
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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No, just pointless.
You are not looking far.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Regards
DL
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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No relevance in any of the myriad of bibles I checked.

Net time quote, write, or ignore.

Regards
DL
Open biblegateway.com and type “scapegoat“ in the search bar and let us know which book and chapter you find.
 

Dexter Sinister

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You are not looking far.

Ezekiel 18:20 ...

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV)...
Yeah I've read all that stuff, both Old and New Testaments. It's part of what led me to the atheist position. I don't accept that biblical citations are authoritative of anything but claims about what the Bible says, and in particular I reject them as guides to how I ought to think or live my life. They have the same status in my philosophy as the old Greek, Roman, and Norse mythologies.
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin.

“He is to cast lots for the two goats—one lot for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat” (Leviticus 16:8).

“But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord to be used for making atonement by sending it into the wilderness as a scapegoat” (Leviticus 16:10).

“The man who releases the goat as a scapegoat must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water; afterward he may come into the camp“ (Leviticus 18:26).
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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Yeah I've read all that stuff, both Old and New Testaments. It's part of what led me to the atheist position. I don't accept that biblical citations are authoritative of anything but claims about what the Bible says, and in particular I reject them as guides to how I ought to think or live my life. They have the same status in my philosophy as the old Greek, Roman, and Norse mythologies.

Disappointing.

Those other ideologies are not doing the ongoing harm to half the world's population that the homophobia and misogyny of our mainstream religions are doing.

My ideology, unlike your philosophy, if I read you correctly, forces me to fight such evil thinking.

I hope I am wrong.

Regards
DL
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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“He is to cast lots for the two goats—one lot for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat” (Leviticus 16:8).

“But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord to be used for making atonement by sending it into the wilderness as a scapegoat” (Leviticus 16:10).

“The man who releases the goat as a scapegoat must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water; afterward he may come into the camp“ (Leviticus 18:26).
I'm not sure why you quoted this process.

A goat is not a man, or does that matter to you?

Regards
DL
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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I'm not sure why you quoted this process.

A goat is not a man, or does that matter to you?

Regards
DL
Understand, DL. Pulling Bible verses out of context generates misunderstanding and confusion.

The aforementioned ancient Hebrew sacrificial system instituted by God (Leviticus 16) foreshadows Christ.
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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Understand, DL. Pulling Bible verses out of context generates misunderstanding and confusion.

The aforementioned ancient Hebrew sacrificial system instituted by God (Leviticus 16) foreshadows Christ.

Understand that biblical claims without quotes are garbage.

Show the quotes please. There are dozens of different versions.

Show just when the ever living god developed this want or need and why he waited billions of years to somehow change, when he is said to be changeless?.

Regards
DL
 
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Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Understand that biblical claims without quotes are garbage.

Show the quotes please. There are dozens of different versions.

Show just when the ever living god developed this want or need and why he waited billions of years to somehow change, when he is said to be changeless?.

Regards
DL
It’s been a pleasure exchanging ideas with you, DL (Isaiah 55:10-11, NIV).
 
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Dexter Sinister

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Disappointing.
What's disapointing, that I don't share your beliefs? That's a bit condescending. I just think you're wrong, that's all.
Those other ideologies are not doing the ongoing harm to half the world's population that the homophobia and misogyny of our mainstream religions are doing.
Agreed.
My ideology, unlike your philosophy, if I read you correctly...
I don't think you do.
... forces me to fight such evil thinking.
My philosophy doesn't force me to do anything in particular, it's just a way of thinking about things, a context, if that's a more suitable word, for trying to figure out how things fit together, and a religious world view I find raises more serious problems than it resolves. I'll resist what I perceive to be evil, though not usually in an Internet discussion forum (rarely a useful place to try anything serious like that; too many trolls and morons around), and not for philosophical reasons, but for practical ones, e.g. it hurts people.
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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My philosophy doesn't force me to do anything in particular,
Then it is useless IMO.

Ideologies and theologies are to be ways of life.

Statistics show that the less your thinking systems asks of adherents, the less it will last.

it hurts people.
True. Tough love hurts and is used because moral and gentle language and teachings have failed to make the mainstream religions stop their homophobic and misogynous ways, --- that are hurting the innocent.

For evil to grow and all that should be a part of your ideology.

Regards
DL
 

Dexter Sinister

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Then it is useless IMO.
Any philosophy or ideology--not the same things, though you seem to be using them as synonyms--that compels action is dangerous. That's where the homophobia and misogyny you decried in an earlier post comes from, they're both mandated as compulsory in the scriptures of the major monotheisms. It's also where some of the worst excesses of human behaviour come from. The human capacity for seeing things as they are not, out of ignorance or stupidity or various errors in perception and comprehension, is boundless. As a guide to understanding, as a context for fitting things together, sure, that's partly what philosophies and ideologies are for, but compulsion? No, that's to deny the possibility that you might be wrong. That way lies tyranny and oppression.