Iran outside and inside

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Holding out for a hero

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080612/REVIEW/781033978/1008

Afshin Molavi
  • Last Updated: June 12. 2008 9:56PM UAE / June 12. 2008 5:56PM GMT


Blow-up: American hawks and disgruntled Arabs share an inflated sense of Ahmadinejad’s power. AP
“Where are you from, my friend?” the merchant in Sharm Al-Sheikh asks me. I have been in enough bazaars in the Middle East to know the routine: I state my nationality (American), he makes a light joke about Rambo or Hollywood (avoiding politics), and then proceeds to hawk his goods to me at triple the going price.

But this time I took a different tack: “Iranian,” I said, citing my other nationality. “Iran?” the merchant responded, somewhat confused and pleasantly surprised. “Sit down,” he said, and sent his assistant scurrying to get me a cup of tea. “Ahmadi- negadee,” he said in the colloquial Egyptian way of referring to the Iranian president, “is number one. I love him. Very strong. Very good. America and Israel no good. Iran very good.”
This type of talk, too, has become familiar to me. In my travels, from Casablanca to Karachi, I’ve been amazed at the appeal that Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad holds on the so-called “street”.

A Cairo driver once refused payment from me in solidarity with “Negadee,” another term used for the Iranian president. A Pakistani driver in Dubai spent nearly an hour with me extolling the virtues of “Ahmadi” as we sat in bumper-to-bumper traffic on Sheikh Zayed Road. A Moroccan student of law asked me if I would use my contacts in Iran to send him an autographed photo of Ahmadinejad (at least he got his name right). And a young, secular Palestinian, in a nightclub in Beirut, showed his love in a manner the conservative Iranian president would likely have frowned upon: he bought a round of shots to toast Ahmadinejad.

I call these distant admirers of Ahmadinejad the Iran Romantics, and I have come to know them well. They are a diverse group, from the perennial grumbling taxi driver to the urbane campus professor. They have a few themes in common: they are frustrated with their own rulers, angry at US and Israeli policies — and most of them have never been to Iran. The latter is the critical point because if they had visited the country, they might be surprised to see that Ahmadinejad is more popular in Amman, Cairo, and Karachi than he is in Tehran, where his policies have stoked record inflation, impoverished Iranians and further isolated the country from the international community.

In Iran, members of parliament slam the Iranian president for his incendiary rhetoric, leading economists write open and angry letters decrying his policies, newspapers regularly criticise him on everything from inflation to his choice of ministers, and senior foreign ministry officials roll their eyes at the president’s antics. Even senior members of Iran’s conservative establishment – including top clerics – have unleashed some not-so-veiled criticism of the Iranian president.

At the time of his election in 2005 – he won the runoff with 60 per cent of the vote –Ahmadinejad was a popular figure in Iran, but not for the reasons the Iran Romantics cite; his appeal rested on populist bread-and-butter issues, and he campaigned on promises to crack down on corruption and restore economic equality. He spoke far more of the price of meat and onions than of Israel or uranium enrichment. Three years into his presidency, the price of meat and onions has soared in concert with his incendiary rhetoric blasting the US and Israel. Meanwhile, the relative freedoms Iranians enjoyed in the Mohammad Khatami era have withered.

So, why the appeal outside of Iran? Partly, it’s easy to like Ahmadinejad. You can enjoy his speeches from afar. They do not affect your life. You do not face the sanctions or the poor policy choices that make life tough for ordinary Iranians, especially the poor. He also talks tough to the United States and Israel, always a winning card in today’s Middle East. Like Latin Americans in the Sixties who revered Fidel Castro from afar but didn’t have to live with his poor management of the state or Arabs who embraced Saddam Hussein but did not have to live with his repression at home, Ahmadinejad maintains a similar appeal.
The Iran Romantics also tend to oppose their own governments, whom they see as too closely allied with the United States, unresponsive to the people’s needs and repressive. A middle-class Egyptian, frustrated with high prices and poor job prospects, and tired of President Hosni Mubarak, might romanticise Ahmadinejad as a leader who at least stands up to the West (though the Egyptian likely pays little attention to Iran’s inflation or unemployment).

But cabdrivers in Cairo and Karachi aren’t the only ones overestimating Ahmadinejad. The Iran Romantics have a counterpart in some Western and Arab capitals, where what you might call “Dark” Iran Romantics hold sway. They see an Iranian plot in every corner of the Middle East, a muscular Iranian military on the brink of nuclear capability about to annihilate Israel, and an Iran on the march with the capability of dominating the region.
The Dark Iran Romantic – including President George W Bush — sees Hamas, Hizbollah and Iraqi militia groups as mere pawns of Iran, and the world divided between moderate Muslims and those extremists aligned with Iran. This view fails to see the local driving forces of groups like Hizbollah, but also fails to see that the poor choices and corrupt practices of some of the so-called moderate Arab states have led their “streets” to embrace a false messiah like Ahmadinejad. It also fails to see that both Israel and the United States have their own history of poor choices that have alienated so many across the region.

The Dark Iran Romantic, too, has likely never visited Iran. If they had, they would see that its vaunted military machine is not as strong as it seems from the images splayed on television, and its population – and many of its top officials – are less interested in revolution, and more in normalisation. Iran’s ageing military equipment gives it a distinct disadvantage in conventional wars; its military might is less real than imagined.
In short, Iran under Ahmadinejad talks loudly and carries a battered stick. It uses that stick to batter its own population, and it makes poor choices that further isolate Iran and stifle its extraordinary potential for growth. There is nothing romantic about that.

To some extent, Ahmadinejad is following a well-trod path. Many an Arab autocrat has sought to deflect attention away from problems at home by pointing the finger abroad. Ironically, the Iranian street might be the least anti-American in the region. The issue of Palestine fails to resonate in Iran the way it does in Arab cities. Iranians don’t watch Al-Jazeera (mostly because they don’t understand Arabic) and, to some extent, they have Palestine fatigue given the amount of attention their government pays to the issue. As one Iranian shopkeeper told me: “Why are we spending so much time and money on Palestine and Hizbollah? What about us Iranians?”

Iran could become a true regional power (rather than a flailing and underperforming one) if it concentrated on channelling its oil wealth into productive development, lowered its rhetoric, engaged more responsibly with its region, and showed a willingness to bury the hatchet with the United States. Though Ahmadinejad may lose the admiration of some of the Iran Romantics in Cairo’s bazaars, he stands to gain something more important: the support of his own people.

Afshin Molavi, the author of The Soul of Iran, has covered Iran and the Middle East for the Washington Post and Reuters.
 

MikeyDB

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Hey Jim ...:)

How's it goin big guy..!?

Can you tell me why Americans "ought-to-fear" Iranians more than say Russians or Chinese whom we know have nuclear technology and the wherewithal to deliver a punch from which the U.S. would reel....?
 

jimmoyer

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There's a certain unsettling degree of unreality in Ahmedinijhad's attitudes.
What makes Iran much more stable is the fact he might not retain power, since he has upset both the masses and too many powerful clerics. Like the article says, only those who don't live in Iran or Cuba like the David and Goliath scenario.

China, like the Soviets, settled into a rational behavior model, one that lends itself to predictability.

Americans are not going to buy any more calls to war. I don't care if they be Republican or Democrat. It won't sell no matter how much "evidence" (even if legitimate) is trumped up.
 

quandary121

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Americans are not going to buy any more calls to war. I don't care if they be Republican or Democrat. It won't sell no matter how much "evidence" (even if legitimate) is trumped up.

Are you certain about that nothing has changed in America.! they are still fighting a war that nobody wants ,have they done anything that did not bring them wealth, they never get involved in African politics when its needed, there troops are still die senselessly for a cause nobody is really sure about. if the news tells them to fight do they consider it ?have they the choice to go to war.? wars are called and the response is made regardless of whether it is just or not . !!!
 

jimmoyer

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First of all, your mentioning Africa, points out a HUGE HYPOCRISY with all of the world.

Why does no other nation try to step into the Sudan, other than China drilling for oil ?

You might wonder about the moral authority of the rest of the world showing no balls for entering into Darfur ?

Also the AIDS program is the largest ever provided by any country in the world. Bono reached out and found an audience in Colin Powell and Bush and got a lot of financing.
The solving of problems in Africa ain't easy ---just like any problem of poverty and health that is long lasting.

----------------------------------------------
Now about war.
I know enough Republicans to have been very soured by the incompetence and hubris of the Bush administration. I'm one of them. His nickname, "Governor Smirk," should have been enough to warn me.
 

quandary121

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Fair point. but the rest of the world does not see it self as the police men of the world. does it.? America soon jumps in when it thinks a wrong has been made, and admittedly who else has the balls that America has, but it is not without its predeceases, Israel has not signed the non-proliferations treaties and America does not denounce that, it is bias to its own agenda, and this is seen as a weakness, to have respect it must, if it wishes to act so boldly act in a manor condusive to all, surly and any bias towards others must be validated, it tells the world how to act, who tells America.? And does it listen when told?
 

Praxius

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I got about 2/3 the way through that and just gave up... I didn't read anything all that important or of any concern.

Iran and its president has some people who like him.... and outside of his own country of all things? Well who would have thought? *slaps face with both hands*



Bush still has friends or people who still think he's great around the world too.... RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!! (See above picture again)

And you know what? I bet that if I dug really deep and hard through the entire world's population..... I just might find someone who still likes the Ren & Stimpy Chistmas Special where they hunt for Stimpy's Fart "Stinky."

People in the Middle East like Ahmadinejad more then they do Bush?? People in the Middle East like Iran more then they do the US?

Well Holy Snapping Crap with Leaping Wart Toads Inside That Give You Warts and E coli Batman!!!

Say it isn't true!!

You're preaching to the choir here.... Americans getting ripped off at the markets and ending up paying triple the price? Why else do you think Americans keep posing as Canadians? (Because their British Accents suck)
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Fair point. but the rest of the world does not see it self as the police men of the world. does it.? America soon jumps in when it thinks a wrong has been made, and admittedly who else has the balls that America has, but it is not without its predeceases, Israel has not signed the non-proliferations treaties and America does not denounce that, it is bias to its own agenda, and this is seen as a weakness, to have respect it must, if it wishes to act so boldly act in a manor condusive to all, surly and any bias towards others must be validated, it tells the world how to act, who tells America.? And does it listen when told?
---------------------------------------quandary121----------------------------------------------------

Policeman of the World?
Let's look at that for a moment. Let's use an analogy. America is this fatso donut eating Cop whose redneck nazi buddy is all too sure about his collar and then the fatso cop bumbles the situation, maybe even falls on its shotgun spraying the whole damn room, while his nazi buddy organizes the cover up.

The rest of the world is that effete, couch movie critic going tut tut but never entering the arena, never acting to stop or prevent because any action taken soils them. No other country will risk its sons and daughters for something outside its own borders. Certainly not in former Yugoslavia (where Europe said Never Again after WWII) and certainly not for Darfur. But they sure will moralize about it. And they will be very pleased with their own moral posture.

I wonder which method causes more harm ?

Does it matter ?



Hypocrisy du jour ?
The most sexy hypocrisy is America. The hyocrisy of the rest of the world is boring.
But this zeitgeist of attraction to hypocrisy in America is understood very well.
We brag about our morality and we have a lot of killing power. But the danger here is to ignore all else. Like the General fighting the last war, he doesn't see a newer more dangerous enemy slinking up behind him. Look at Germany not able to tell Siemens to desist in it contracts with Iran while deploring the nuclear development (probably helped by Siemens) ? Look at Italy who sold most of Iraq's landmine arsenal. Of course it goes on and on ad infinitum.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Jimmoyer

In another thread the magic of the U.S. Special Forces counterinsurgency manual has been talked about....

Realistically Jim, does a nation (and the military of that nation) that is prepared to use any and every means available to it in the effort to recreate the world in the way it pleases...command as much fear as a despotic megalomaniac in Iraq or a puppet of the radical Moslem faith in Iran?

We have been told for generations that the "Reds" the "Commies" were out to take over the world..... We've been told that the Cubans and Fidel Castro are puppets of the Kremlin and are simply waiting for their opportunity to overthrow Washington DC....We've been indoctrinated to believe that Suharto and Pinochet and Marcos and and and...are the event-wave of American style democracy in foreign lands....and we ought oignore the death squads and corruption......

Who has practiced the politics of terrorism to greater effect than the United States of America?
 

Praxius

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LOL, Praxius.

Great Home Alone picture !!!


You are far too informed for me to get anything past you !!!

Uh oh...

I'm receiving another alert. Gotta go.

:)

Well seriously though, it's just the way the world turns.... eventually in time there will be two or three clashing national leaders who want to pump themselves up at the expense of their publics.... and they're addicted to trying to leave some sort of legacy for people to remember them by, they forget their rights and wrongs in the process it would seem.

The problem with legacies, is that everybody remembers the bad things you did more then the good.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Point 1

Realistically Jim, does a nation (and the military of that nation) that is prepared to use any and every means available to it in the effort to recreate the world in the way it pleases...command as much fear as a despotic megalomaniac in Iraq or a puppet of the radical Moslem faith in Iran?
----------------------------------------MikeyDB----------------------------------------------------------

Your point is correct, MikeyDB.

But I do wonder if those "mini-megalomanics" ever did join the Big Member Club of nuclear weaponry if they would be even as restrained as the rogue USA ?

Fidel Castro pleaded with the USSR to fire a missle. He wanted to see this holocaust even if it meant his own demise. Thank God the leaders then had some back channel diplomacy.

Your point that the "mini-megalomaniacs" do not have the power to reach us or hurt us was true in some past wars. This also assumes that failed states festering a psychosis afflicting a whole population will also never touch our shores.

I just wonder what middle ground can be taken in all of this.

I suspect the arguments on all sides of this.
 

MikeyDB

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Praxius

Who remembers? Will it be the thousands killed by American's spending the future of their children on bombs and bullets to invade a nation on the basis of lies and half-truths?

Who can speak for the orphans and the maimed of Amercan aggression?

Will the American people continue to employ sweatshop economics and thumb their noses at critics who emphasize the hypocrisy of claiming to be a nation subscribing to the rule of law....but willing to abandon law and principle on a whim?

Will the Palestinians and a billion and a half other people embroiled in a climate of carnage and mayhem at the behest of the United States forget their dead and simply clean up their devastated infrastructure as though this wasn't the policy and effect of a America pushing its Israeli agenda?

How long will people have to live with the consequences of a people (America) without principle and without regard for anyone but themselves and their "closest" allies?

It seems fairly obvious that Americans love war.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Jimmoyer

It's too bad that Americans won't hold their government accountable for ANYTHING!

Katrina, corporate fraud and malfeseance...Enron....sub-prime mortgages...trade with China when the warnings about the quality of goods coming from China tells everyone that this isn't a good idea....to suspension and de-construction of the American Constitution.....

When there's a flood in Illinois ....when there's a tornado in Oklahoma....when there's wildfires and landslides in California...... when Americans suffer...... and a great deal of that suffering could have been mitigated ...but instead attention and energy and money was being poured into a counterfeit "war"......

Perhaps Americans need to have a nuke or two unloaded on them.... seems pretty tough to get their attention.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Perhaps Americans need to have a nuke or two unloaded on them.... seems pretty tough to get their attention
---------------------------------------Praxius---------------------------------------------------


I'm stuck on idle, staring at that statement.
 
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jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Perhaps Americans need to have a nuke or two unloaded on them.... seems pretty tough to get their attention
---------------------------------------Praxius---------------------------------------------------


I'm still stuck on idle, staring at that statement.

Somebody pull me away.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Perhaps Americans need to have a nuke or two unloaded on them.... seems pretty tough to get their attention
---------------------------------------Praxius---------------------------------------------------

I'm still stuck on idle, staring at that statement.

Somebody pull me away.

You best re-check who you're quoting above, as I never said that. I may think that, but I never said that.... Mikey did.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Yes I said it and I stand by the statement. Americans wallow in their self-righteous global-policeman role while funding and practicing terrorism around the world. When the mix gets convoluted enough ....when Saddam's yer friend...and then he's not...when Pinochet and Suharto are swell guys worth backing and funding....and then they're not.... when fossil fuel companies vie for pipeline routes and Canada and many others are pulled into war....when Americans lack the intelligence to stand up to their own government.....

As America has demonstrated repeatedly to the world.... The way of America is insurgency support, weapons deals under the table and installing dictatorships wherever the American appetite demands....invaison predicated on a fabric of lies.... the list of American atrocities is growing and has increased growing while the people of America remain silent.

It's not enough apparently that thousands of young men and women died in Iraq...for the lies of the U.S. government...it's not enough that the Bush administration has all but flushed America (middle class) down the drain...its not enough that corruption and failure after failure from "Homeland Security" demostrating it can't police its own borders...to allowing American companies to hire illegal immigrants....while a predatory lending cabal harvests millions through a sub-prime mortgage scandal....while natural disasters are ignored and ineffectively addressed by FEMA....the list goes on and on and where are Americans?

Munching Big Macs and watching American idol....

They need something to get them motivated...and maybe a nuke would do that!