If Paul Martin had a Spine

[Reverend Blair]

I was just at http://www.notacolony.ca/ and found these stories.

The first, from Canadian Press, Is Paul Martin making excuses for being afraid to link trade in one area to trade in another. Specifically Martin's refusal to link softwood lumber to energy exports. The full story can be found at http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/040908/n0908111A.html

The second story, from the Globe and Mail, is about farmers refusing to let American hunters onto their land as a way of fighting back against the USA's continued ban on Canadian cattle. It can be found here: Globe and Mail

The story is best summed up with this, "They're not welcome this year," Mr. Paskal said. "It's a strong position, but what the hell do you expect us to do? We're dealing with some unreasonable people south of the border and you'd better believe that's making us a little unreasonable, too."

Clearly Canadians are fed up with the Bush regime's attitude toward trade with Canada. The US keeps on losing cases in front of international panels and they continue to ignore those rulings. We've won in front of NAFTA and the WTO. The US is breaking the rules. The WTO just said that the Byrd law is illegal and Canada is perfectly justified in introducing trade sanctions against the US as a result.

Paul Martin, the spineless wonder, is afraid that the US will hurt our economy if we use hardball tactics. Paul Martin is a coward more concerned about his boats being able to turn a profit than with the well-being of Canadians.

It is time to play hardball. There is an election brewing in the United States. Energy is a major issue. It is time to cut our exports to the US. Let the US people pay European-style prices to fuel their SUVs, let US industry fight for electricity, let the swimming pools go unheated for a lack of natural gas.

Canadians have had enough of American protectionism. They are as dependent on us as we are on them, but we have the option of finding other markets. The US, due to the Bush administration's predatory trade practices and short-sighted policies, is not in a position to fight back. Oil prices are high and the US is thirsty; natural gas and electricity cannot be easily transported, yet the US needs them; the worst hurricane season in memory is battering Florida and our lumber, even at the inflated prices the tariffs have caused, is much needed to board up windows and rebuild.

It's time to play hardball. Let Bush deal with the political fall-out of his protectionist policies.

 

[bogie]

...... It's time to play hardball. Let Bush deal with the political fall-out of his protectionist policies.

Uh, no .... WE, the Canadian people, would suffer, dramatically, from "playing hardball". For some reason, many people, not just yourself, seem to feel that these "trade sanctions, etc" would "look good" on our political leaders, and help fight the US rampant bullyness and capitalism.

First off, too late. The horse is already out of the barn, no use trying to close the door now. The US economy is so deeply entrenched into our own, that such action would be suicide. We are less than 10% of a market than that of the US.

We "dealt with the devil" when we agreed to so-called "free trade", so the US based manufacturing companies pulled out their Canadian locations, let go thousands of employees, and went back home. We no longer had protectionism in place, so why stay here at an extra expense?! A lot easier to "not do it" in the first place, than try and put it back in place. Our economy would be a disaster overnight.

Our retail sector is almost entirely US owned, with our last bastion of retail holdings, HBC, soon to be swallowed up by another US firm.

Take a look around you - do you see any "real" MADE IN CANADA labels, on anything? Maybe a few things, but nothing substantial.

I never did see the "For Sale" sign on our border, but I am sure the US bought us not too long ago

 

[Andem]

Bogie, the United States is hurting our country financially and it will continue until they have total control of everything north of the border. They will continue to be able to dictate everything, and unless we don't do anything, it will never stop.

We have to play hardball if they are throwing the ball at us. Trade sanctions are what we need to set the record straight. If we pull out of NAFTA, sure there will be some short term effects on some sectors of our economy, but we as Canadians can pull out of it.

Let's halt the flow of our natural resources to the US and then see who's winning in the trade war. That's the last thing we should fall back on, but the US would hurt just as much as we would if we put sanctions on them.

In the mean time, I think it would be a good idea to open more relationships with the European Union and South American countries. Get a little closer to our other trade allies.

 

[bogie]

Re: RE: If Paul Martin had a Spine

Bogie, the United States is hurting our country financially and it will continue until they have total control of everything north of the border. They will continue to be able to dictate everything, and unless we don't do anything, it will never stop.

We have to play hardball if they are throwing the ball at us. Trade sanctions are what we need to set the record straight. If we pull out of NAFTA, sure there will be some short term effects on some sectors of our economy, but we as Canadians can pull out of it.

Let's halt the flow of our natural resources to the US and then see who's winning in the trade war. That's the last thing we should fall back on, but the US would hurt just as much as we would if we put sanctions on them.

In the mean time, I think it would be a good idea to open more relationships with the European Union and South American countries. Get a little closer to our other trade allies.

All true, but easier said than done. I was pointing out the devastation already perpetrated by past governments, no matter who was in power, due to our so-called parliamentary process. The news, yesterday, of how the opposition parties are willing to band together to oppose, without forcing an election, certain government actions, or call-to-action, is ground-breaking in a parliamentary society. For once I applaude the BQ, PC, and NDP for such a "truce" to help democracy in Canada. Of course, the results are still to be seen, but this is one time, in Canadian history, that politics could become interesting to watch.

I was totally against free-trade (it dramatically hurt, and killed, a former business of mine), and could not believe the sell-out that occured.

But as I stated before, the horse is out of the barn, we have almost sold our complete capitalistic landscape to south of the border, and $$$ are very powerful in politics.

Do you know who is to blame? I do!

We all are .... guilty as sin. Stop putting all the blame on our government - they are but a few of our country's citizens.

Do "we" buy Canadian? No.

Do "we" care? No.

The proof is in the pudding, me lords and ladies of the realm. We have made our proverbial bed and are sleeping in it.

Mind you, it is now very hard to "Buy Canadian", because there isn't much "Canadian" left to buy! And, if our government had "spine", as it is being implied, would we "Buy Canadian" if it was available, again, or just keep on buying what we want based on need, not patriotism?

Do you shop at Wal-Mart, Future Shop, Best Buy, etc.? I am guilty of some past transgressions by buying some things at Wal-Mart, but don't any more. Ever since FS went into US hands I stopped going there. I've never been to Best Buy, and won't.

Do you buy your gas from Esso, Shell, or other non-Canadian gas companies? I don't exactly see people lined up at Sunoco stations - even if they are a little few and far between.

Your Honour, the verdict is in: "Guilty".

The Canadian people are sentenced to many more years of US financial control. The only chance of parole is for the Canadian people to turn over a new leaf, buy as much as absolutley possible that is Canadian made or from companies that are totally Canadian in ownership. This "hardship" will be the only proof of reform and deserving of being released from The Big Eagle prison.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: If Paul Martin had a

See, I already vote with my dollars. I buy my gas at the Co-op, my building supplies at McDiarmid lumber, my clothes at marks Work Wearhouse, my tires at Canadian Tire, do my banking at the Credit Union and so on.

I drink locally made beer, buy my beef from a local farmer who has it slaughtered at a small abattoir, and so on.

Is everything I own either made in Canada or bought from a Canadian-owned retailer? Pretty much. More than that, most of it comes from locally owned small businesses, so my money goes back into the local economy. Sometimes it costs nominally more, other times it actually saves me money.

I don't think it's too late to fight back against US control of our economy, bogie. I think the time is just right. The US has just lost several unfair trade suits, there is an election on, and we control the US economy because without our energy and natural resources, they don't have an economy.

We are also well-placed to become economicly self-sufficient. We have the resources to supply all of our own food, the infrastructure and resources to rebuild our manufacturing base, and the neccessary knowledge to do so.

American companies would still want to do business in Canada too, even if they had to re-establish offices here. We are a market of over thirty million well-educated, wealthy consumers. We may represent only ten percent of trade with the US, but if you were told to either invest in yourself or take a ten percent pay cut, which would you do?

Meanwhile the US cannot get by without us. They need our energy and our other natural resources because without those resources their economy will fall apart.

 

[LadyC]

I've got mixed feelings on this one. Part of me wishes we could just stand up and say "Enough! You want our (whatever) then be more reasonable with our softwood lumber (or whatever)" But that kind of attitude could end up biting us in the butt if we're not prepared. Before we can even think of doing this, we have to make sure we have other options to fall back on. We need to expand our trade into Europe, which could be even more protectionist than the US, and the Pacific Rim.

I have to admit I buy my gas from Shell for the airmiles and I shop at Safeway. I get good service and it's cheaper. But I also shop locally as much as I can, as I like to support the small businesses too. However, I'm not willing to pay a lot more for the privilege, so the prices need to be at least close to what I'd pay in one of the big stores.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: If Paul Martin had a

Until we stand up and say, "Enough," there is no impetus to go after those other markets though, Lady C. The Canadians who benefit from our trade relationship with the United States profit massively and they happen to be in control of both the Liberals and the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives. That real-live Canadians are suffering for it doesn't matter to them.

Andem: Is it possible to start a Buy Canadian campaign through this site in conjunction with some other sites?

 

[LadyC]

I grew up in a logging town, in a family of loggers. I understand how much control the US has over our industries, both direct and indirect. I've seen the damage they can do with their protectionist policies. This is why I say we have to be very careful how we go about saying "Enough!"

I prefer to buy Canadian, and we're doing more travelling within our province, too. I even sent the kids to Edmonton on WestJet Labour Day weekend. (they're still Canadian, right?)
:wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: If Paul Martin had a

I grew up in a farming family...I've seen what they can do too.

The thing is that they will do it whether we take action or not. Canadian farmers began to get into trouble in the seventies when Cargill elevators started popping up. Soon the Crow Rate was gone. Now the Wheat Board is under attack and they won't let our cattle across the border. We've been cooperative through all of this, signing up for one-sided trade deals and making trade lawyers rich.

We might as well try to stop them while we still have some bargaining chips.

 

[LadyC]

Hey... notice the ads up top? We've mentioned logging, and now there's a link for buying wood. You just mentioned farming... let's see how long it takes before there's an ad for wheat or beef.


I agree about the bargaining chips. I remember when B.C. was considering selling our water. There was a lot of concern about the wording - would the US be guaranteed a set amount (rather than a percentage) even during drought years?

What we really need, in addition to a PM with a spine, is a group of smart negotiators with Canada's best interests in mind.

And while I'm wishful thinking, I want a pony.

 

[Reverend Blair]

And while I'm wishful thinking, I want a pony.

I know of a couple of PMU owners who've had their quotas cut because it turned out that US pharmaceutical companies were lying about what their products did...maybe we can fix you up with a pony. :lol:

 

[LadyC]

Really? I thought the hormones were pretty good. I haven't really kept up though.

Make it a miniature pony and we're talkin'. My back yard is a decent size for the 'burbs, but too small for a full size pony.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: If Paul Martin had a

When looking for massive amounts of urine, you tend to search out large animals. There is a guy not to far from here who raises tiny horses though. He doesn't run a PMU or anything, but he does have a nice yard.

The hormones are good, but they don't make you better at parking your car. It seems there was some exagerration and somebody took umbrage and then the market for horse piss kind of crashed.

 

[LadyC]

Well, gee. Who'd take hormones to park their car better? What the heck kind of sexist comment is that, anyway?
:?

I thought the urine was for menopausal women, or for fertility drugs.

Unless I'm thinking of HMG (human menopausal gonadotropin), which was used to make pergonal, a pretty powerful infertility drug. It was originally made from Nun's urine. 8O

Um... what was this thread about?
We seem to have gotten sidetracked.
:wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Well, gee. Who'd take hormones to park their car better? What the heck kind of sexist comment is that, anyway?

Not sexist at all...women are as inept at parking as men. :wink: The pharmaceuticals were making some pretty wild claims about what their products could do though. The parking thing is only a slight exaggeration.

I thought the urine was for menopausal women, or for fertility drugs.

It is. Some birth control pills too. It was being used to treat every from what it was meant for to psychological disorders though, due to claims based on trials that were basically fraudulent. That pushed the number of prescriptions way up, so the manufacturers needed more urine. A lot of farmers got into the PMU business. Then the truth came out and the demand for mare's urine dived, leaving the farmers stuck with huge overhead costs and no way to pay the bills.

We aren't really that far off topic. Paul Martin is a horse's ass, after all. :lol: