How can we bridge the West-Muslim divide?

[I think not]

How can we combat mutual fear between Western and Muslim societies?

A cross-cultural group of prominent world figures, drawn together by the UN, has called for urgent efforts to heal the divide between societies.

The panel says the main causes of the rift are not religion or history, but recent political developments - notably the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The Alliance of Civilisations says education and media projects should be used to combat mutual suspicion, and also calls for renewed international efforts to resolve the Middle East crisis.

Do you think there is a rift between different societies? Why is this? How can we tackle a rift between cultures?

bbc

 

[tamarin]

There's a huge rift. It's unbridgeable. Western societies are becoming more secular. As they do and their centre weakens and their values become more fluid, they will represent an increasing challenge to the monolithic Islamic societies that espouse exactly the opposite. There is no reconciliation. The West's growing political and social weakness and cultural fragility will only worsen the situation. We're screwed.

 

[Kreskin]

A healthy UN is the only way we're ever going to get anything accomplished. That's what it's for, a place where peoples of the world can meet, talk, and problem solve. I can't believe how the neo-cons trashed the organization in it's rush to war. Peace and talk was getting in the way of shock and awe. If Kerry can be smeared for having purple hearts, the UN was easy prey for Rove. Now it's just a bloody mess.

I'm afraid the only hope is to remove Bush from the world stage. No one is going to work with him after the shenanigans he has pulled. Sorry to be ragging on Bush again but his credibility in world affairs is shot.

 

[tracy]

As long as people have commonalities I think this rift is fixable. It will be individuals that do it though, not governments. At least that's been my experience. My opinion of muslims would probably have been similar to some other members of this board had I not met individual muslims who were nothing like their stereotype. It works the other way as well.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I have to agree with Tamarin. I don't believe a bridge is possible under present circumstances. One of the key features of modern Western democracies is the separation of church and state, an idea first and best expressed, as far as I know, in American constitutional documents: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." America's founders were deeply philosophical, well educated, steeped in the values of the Enlightenment, and clearly understood the dangers of state-supported religion, so they drew a clear line between the state and religion. No other Western democracy has such a statement in its constitutional documents (again, as far as I know, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that), but the American example seems to have spread. In Britain, for instance, the head of state is also the head of the Anglican church, but the powers of the British monarch are so lame it has almost no practical impact. In my own country of Canada, some of our recent amendments to our constitutional documents talk about "the supremacy of God," but fortunately they don't specify which god, so you can take it to mean Zeus if you want, and again it has almost no practical impact.


In Islamic societies, the church *is* the state, no separation is possible. That was once true of Christianity too. Islam needs a reformation like Christianity's Protestant Reformation to bring it into the modern world. Right now it's a faith similar to 14th century Christianity. It claims the authority to make definitive statements about the nature of reality and the way things should be if we all believed what we're supposed to believe, and it also defines what we're supposed to believe. It's stuck in the distant past. And as long as that's true, there can be no reconciliation.

 

[gc]

I have to agree with Tamarin. I don't believe a bridge is possible under present circumstances. One of the key features of modern Western democracies is the separation of church and state, an idea first and best expressed, as far as I know, in American constitutional documents: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." America's founders were deeply philosophical, well educated, steeped in the values of the Enlightenment, and clearly understood the dangers of state-supported religion, so they drew a clear line between the state and religion. No other Western democracy has such a statement in its constitutional documents (again, as far as I know, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that), but the American example seems to have spread. In Britain, for instance, the head of state is also the head of the Anglican church, but the powers of the British monarch are so lame it has almost no practical impact. In my own country of Canada, some of our recent amendments to our constitutional documents talk about "the supremacy of God," but fortunately they don't specify which god, so you can take it to mean Zeus if you want, and again it has almost no practical impact.


In Islamic societies, the church *is* the state, no separation is possible. That was once true of Christianity too. Islam needs a reformation like Christianity's Protestant Reformation to bring it into the modern world. Right now it's a faith similar to 14th century Christianity. It claims the authority to make definitive statements about the nature of reality and the way things should be if we all believed what we're supposed to believe, and it also defines what we're supposed to believe. It's stuck in the distant past. And as long as that's true, there can be no reconciliation.

What if the people want reform? For example, in Iran the reform movement (prior to the war on terror) received about 80% of the vote. I don't see why there can't be reconciliation with these people...they just need a change of government.

 

[tracy]

In Islamic societies, the church *is* the state, no separation is possible.

This isn't the case with Turkey. They have faults certainly and I realize they aren't representative of most muslim countries, but they are secular despite being overwhelmingly muslim.

 

[tamarin]

You have to look where the momentum is. Where the power centre of the Islamic world is. It's in Iran. Despite what we've been told of the aspirations of the man on the street, all the levers are held by fundamentalists. The rhetoric of the hardcore and committed is unequivocal: the West must be overthrown.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Yeah, I thought of Turkey after I'd posted. I know squat about Turkish politics, and I've often wondered how that supposedly secular state works. Egypt too, which I've visited, is nominally secular, but in practical terms, it's not really.

 

[tamarin]

The news today of a massive kidnapping in Baghdad underscores the barbarity and brutality of which extremists are capable. It is unthinkable in the West that one would ever do this type of thing. The fate of the kidnapped seems predictable - torture then beheading. How does the West fight such brazen, coldblooded and maniacal behaviour? Usually with amnesties, forgiveness and offers of reconciliation. That is all we have. And we think it's the right thing to do. It's not. One can only look on with rage at what the West does when confronted with such a methodical and ruthless enemy.

 

[annabattler]

There's always been a part of me that thinks that individuals,within their own national walls,need to determine their own fate.
Sometimes that process is very messy,what with coups,civil unrest,battering of citizens,lack of press freedom,lack of citizen freedom,etc.etc.
There are few examples in history to show that effective change can come from without for any country(I'm not including major world wars here).
However, I am an optimist. I think that established stable countries can offer support,I think that the UN has a major role to play,I think that NGOs also have a major role to play.The more educated a populace becomes,the more able they are to determine their own future.
The west does not always play fair....globalization affects most economies and very often skews their efforts.
However,we need to press forward,not throw up our hands in defeat,and we all need to understand we share this tiny planet and it will become what we make it.

 

[Logic 7]

How can we combat mutual fear between Western and Muslim societies?

A cross-cultural group of prominent world figures, drawn together by the UN, has called for urgent efforts to heal the divide between societies.

The panel says the main causes of the rift are not religion or history, but recent political developments - notably the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The Alliance of Civilisations says education and media projects should be used to combat mutual suspicion, and also calls for renewed international efforts to resolve the Middle East crisis.

Do you think there is a rift between different societies? Why is this? How can we tackle a rift between cultures?

bbc

If we want to bridge beetween muslim-west, then israel mostly should comply with UN resolutions, and international law, as long as there is favoritism, beetween the coaltion of the willing and axis of good(israel, usa and the rest of sheeps) and no respect for UN and international law, then there is absotly no solution for peace, and no bridge will be ever make as long as we don't acknowledge those problems and do something about it.

 

[gopher]

One thing's for sure -- there isn't enough dialog on how to bridge these divisions.

When I was a kid growing up in Brooklyn, NY one of my favorite places was an area in Atlantic Avenue called "Little Middle East". There, we have Muslims from many countries, Jews (mostly Sephardic), and other ethnic groupings. All get along fabulously. Just fabulously.

To me there simply isn't any excuse for why people shouldn't get along regardless of ethnicity or religion. Hatred based on these things is just so utterly stupid and so insane that there can be no justification for it. As I said on my Islamophobia thread there is plenty of blame to go around for this mess and no one grouping is free of some degree of blame.

Come the Judgment Day many of us will have much to answer for. And it's a good bet that racial-ethinc hatred is one of the principle motivations behind the many faults we will answer for.


Let's hope that people will change their ways from confrontation to communication. That will make for a better and more peaceful world.