God's Relational Presence

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
9,814
288
83
Regina, SK
Your attention to the various Bible translations is important ...
So I was liberated from contending over mere words and translations.
That seems deeply inconsistent to me.

The KJV is the Bible I grew up with, and still the one I prefer for most purposes, and the only one I've read all of. I also have a Revised Standard Version and The Jerusalem Bible. The NIV I'm not familiar with except as the name of another version. It doesn't take a lot of digging to find out that there are inconsistencies in these various texts, some of them fairly significant in terms of their impact on Christian dogma. Fairly early on in my search I came across a page from a man, clearly an evangelical fundamentalist, who argued urgently (but not very well) that the NIV, to use his phrase, "molests and corrupts" the Word and you should discard it. It's a weak and silly argument so I won't waste your time by providing a cite, but he does provide many examples of where the KJV and the NIV texts differ. Given that his quotations are correct, there are some significant differences in wording, including both additions and deletions, that bear on the nature of Christ and Creation. It's a micro version of an old problem: given the multiplicity of faiths available, and the multiple sects within them all, on what basis can one make a choice among them? Clearly they can't all be right, just as the available translations of the Bible can't all be right, because they're inconsistent.

The sensible response for me is to conclude that none of them are right and thus needn't be taken seriously as anything but mythology. Mythology has its uses of course, but a guide to life or an explanation of reality is not among them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: taxslave

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,348
18
38
There are 3 that don't waiver and lack ambiguities. Hebrew, Latin and Greek.
And there is One who superintended the revelation and who does not change like shifting shadows (James 1:17, NIV).
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
1,918
23
38
God is relational and desires to dwell among His people.
Which god?

What do you see created the way a rational person would create it?

God can do whatever he wills. Omni everything. Right?

Who or what supernatural entity is preventing god from doing his will?


Regards
DL
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
1,918
23
38
God is relational and desires to dwell among His people.
You make a number of positive statements like this here and elsewhere.

Are you giving first hand information?

If not, stop phrasing your statements as lies.

The moment you say god anything, it is a lie.

Prove me wrong.

Regards
DL
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
1,918
23
38
Ever notice that God doesn't use right angles?

I have noted many sheeple who can only lie instead of doing decent apologetics.

Education and modernization is hell on gods and stupid supernatural beliefs.

The moment one says god this or god that, he is lying.

Regards
DL
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,348
18
38
1 Thessalonians is also one of the writings in which Paul clearly indicates that he expects the second coming within his lifetime, in 4:16 and 4:17, though he's careful not to specify a precise time. Clearly the second coming has not occurred. That was a crucial bit of prophecy in the early church, it's a major theme in Paul's writings, Jesus himself is reported as confirming it in the Gospels, and it's a major claim in Revelation as well. Its obvious failure has produced an extraordinary amount of verbal and mental gymnastics to explain it away by arguing that somehow the texts mean something other than what they plainly say. For me, that destroys credibility.
Hi Dex.

Although the day and hour of the parousia are unknown (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32), the season of Christ’s return can be appreciated in the prophetic convergence of eschatological signs. There are many.

I find the verses you cited to be instructive concerning the manner of Christ’s return: ”For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, NIV). This revelation is and will be particularly significant in light of the rampant deception characterizing this season (Luke 21:8).
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,348
18
38
The Bible message is not the existence of God which is assumed. Rather, God’s nature, character and work of reconciliation and restoration are revealed. God’s ultimate desire and purpose is to dwell among His people.

The loci of God’s relational presence as outlined in the Bible are the garden in Eden (Genesis 3:8), the ancient Hebrew tabernacle (Exodus 25:8), the land of promise (Numbers 35:34), the ancient Jewish temple in Jerusalem (1 Chronicles 23:25), the incarnation of Christ (John 1:14) and the Spirit-filled church (Acts 2).

The world today is moving toward the fulfillment of God’s desire and purpose to dwell among the people:

“Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’ for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death‘ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:1-4, NIV).

God desires a relationship with you.
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
1,918
23
38
God’s ultimate desire and purpose is to dwell among His people.
How do you know first hand what god desires.

Desire to you is not the same as a desire of a god so you might stop lying.

What kind of an a hole god abandons his people?

Why did god abandon them in the first place?

Regards
DL
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
1,918
23
38
God publishes His desires in His written revelation, through His incarnation and by His Spirit, DL.
IOW, you believe liars and happily pass on that lie.

Typical Christian.

Tell us what you like about the spirit of a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous god?

Why do you like a satanic and evil spirit?

Regards
DL
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
101,933
7,252
113
Moccasin Flats
An interesting claim if true, which I strongly doubt, but even if it *is* true, it's not much use for the vast majority of us who can't read Hebrew, Latin, or Greek.
If true? Did you think the first Bibles were written in english?

Ever heard of Google translate?
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,348
18
38
Typical Christian.
“So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal … fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith” (2 Corinthians 4:18; Hebrews 12:2a, NIV). Eyes on Christ is the way to go, DL.
That seems deeply inconsistent to me.

The KJV is the Bible I grew up with, and still the one I prefer for most purposes, and the only one I've read all of. I also have a Revised Standard Version and The Jerusalem Bible. The NIV I'm not familiar with except as the name of another version. It doesn't take a lot of digging to find out that there are inconsistencies in these various texts, some of them fairly significant in terms of their impact on Christian dogma. Fairly early on in my search I came across a page from a man, clearly an evangelical fundamentalist, who argued urgently (but not very well) that the NIV, to use his phrase, "molests and corrupts" the Word and you should discard it. It's a weak and silly argument so I won't waste your time by providing a cite, but he does provide many examples of where the KJV and the NIV texts differ. Given that his quotations are correct, there are some significant differences in wording, including both additions and deletions, that bear on the nature of Christ and Creation. It's a micro version of an old problem: given the multiplicity of faiths available, and the multiple sects within them all, on what basis can one make a choice among them? Clearly they can't all be right, just as the available translations of the Bible can't all be right, because they're inconsistent.
I am so blessed to learn that you are examining the Scriptures to see if the testimony you read is true, DS (Acts 17:11). His word never returns empty but accomplishes His every desire and purpose (Isaiah 55:11). Be blessed, my Friend.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
9,814
288
83
Regina, SK
If true? Did you think the first Bibles were written in english?

Ever heard of Google translate?
What remarkably silly questions. You claimed that the texts written in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek, don't waiver (the word you want there is waver) and lack ambiguities, and thus by implication it's only the English versions that suffer such deficiencies. The English versions are all based on texts in other languages. Many of them are also translations from other languages that passed through the hands of multiple scribes, and there have provably been additions and deletions in that process, so that seems a dubious claim. In particular I would direct your attention to Dr. Bart Ehrman's books, Misquoting Jesus, and Forged.
 
  • Like
Reactions: French Patriot

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
101,933
7,252
113
Moccasin Flats
The English versions are all based on texts in other languages. Many of them are also translations from other languages that passed through the hands of multiple scribes, and there have provably been additions and deletions in that process, so that seems a dubious claim. In particular I would direct your attention to Dr. Bart Ehrman's books, Misquoting Jesus, and Forged.
Yeah English versions are based from Hebrew, Greek and Latin. All 3 are precise languages and written within a similar time frame. Those languages haven't changed.