Erin O'Toole Under Fire

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,540
308
83
Penticton, BC
How did a dying industry manage to hit all time records for production in Dec of 2020?

It all collapsed in the past 7 months?
Production and profits are what they are, I'm looking at it from the perspecitve that maybe Albertans should see some return on Alberta resources, not have to watch their slice of the pie shrink while the profits head elsewhere.
 

Dixie Cup

House Member
Sep 16, 2006
3,717
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Edmonton
That is not where Canada’s problems lie . Quebec’s control of the bureaucracy and their disproportionate vote share is the bigger issue . We have Alberta and Saskatchewan feeling , not without good reason , they are left out .
Quebec also gives tax incentives to businesses which, in turn, reduces their revenue and allows them to increase their portion of the equalization money. So B.C., Alberta & Sask, to their detriment, are paying for those tax incentives albeit indirectly and Quebec is laughing all the way to the bank. Agreements that Quebec gets from the Feds have been turned down by those same Feds for Alberta & Saskatchewan. So ya, the West continues to get screwed.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
98,815
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Moccasin Flats
Production and profits are what they are, I'm looking at it from the perspecitve that maybe Albertans should see some return on Alberta resources, not have to watch their slice of the pie shrink while the profits head elsewhere.
Going back to the "building a house" reference. What happens after building the house? 25 years of mortgage payments. When do you realize the equity and how do you get there? Will there be ups and downs? Will it need repairs? Renovations? More investment to finish the basement? A hot tub here, a gazebo there? Some landscaping perhaps? Some children to fill it? Is that still not growth and gain? It's ludicrous to think it's dead.

So you are pro equalization reform then? That will never happen under the Liberals.
 
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Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,540
308
83
Penticton, BC
Going back to the "building a house" reference. What happens after building the house? 25 years of mortgage payments. When do you realize the equity and how do you get there? Will there be ups and downs? Will it need repairs? Renovations? More investment to finish the basement? A hot tub here, a gazebo there? Some landscaping perhaps? Some children to fill it? Is that still not growth and gain? It's ludicrous to think it's dead.

So you are pro equalization reform then? That will never happen under the Liberals.
In this case I'm "pro" seeing Albertans get a fair return on what are technically publically owned resources. It stinks of corporate greed and government pandering that these companies can claim "record production" and climbing profits and at the same time driving down wages and job opportunities. Are you against the working man getting ahead ?

In a stunning turnaround, oilpatch profitability 'has probably never been better'
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,540
308
83
Penticton, BC
There used to be a time when the corporate equation held management, shareholders, employees and suppliers in equal esteem. There was some concern to see that everybody was treated fairly and was able to benefit from the relationship. Then a guy named Milton Freidman wrote a little essay that changed the world. The essay was titled "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase Its Profits" and was first published in the New York Times in 1970. It signaled the onset of Neo-Liberal economics, and while hailed as a breakthrough at the time, earning Freidman a Nobel Prize, it is now seen as square one of a social decline that has given us an unsustainable accumulation of wealth in the hands of a very, very few, a rotting environment, and a world starkly divided along political and economic lines.

Milton Friedman On The Social Responsibility of Business, 50 Years Later

This is not a plea for an end to capitalism, more a plea for the pre-Freidman form of capitalism where employees where not just numbers in a ledger, but part of a team, and employers were a part of a society that prospered as a whole.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
22,125
3,234
113
B.C.
It's set up that way because Saskatchewan got too powerful too fast for Ontario and Quebec's liking and that hasn't changed.
Of course and it is not going to until or unless there is a major shakeup of confederation . As thing’s presently stand Canada is screwed .
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
22,125
3,234
113
B.C.
There used to be a time when the corporate equation held management, shareholders, employees and suppliers in equal esteem. There was some concern to see that everybody was treated fairly and was able to benefit from the relationship. Then a guy named Milton Freidman wrote a little essay that changed the world. The essay was titled "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase Its Profits" and was first published in the New York Times in 1970. It signaled the onset of Neo-Liberal economics, and while hailed as a breakthrough at the time, earning Freidman a Nobel Prize, it is now seen as square one of a social decline that has given us an unsustainable accumulation of wealth in the hands of a very, very few, a rotting environment, and a world starkly divided along political and economic lines.

Milton Friedman On The Social Responsibility of Business, 50 Years Later

This is not a plea for an end to capitalism, more a plea for the pre-Freidman form of capitalism where employees where not just numbers in a ledger, but part of a team, and employers were a part of a society that prospered as a whole.
Problems in Canada stem from bureaucratic greed , not corporate greed . Our bureaucracy eats fifty percent of the average mans pay and the only ones getting ahead are government employees .
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
98,815
4,913
113
Moccasin Flats
Quebec also gives tax incentives to businesses which, in turn, reduces their revenue and allows them to increase their portion of the equalization money. So B.C., Alberta & Sask, to their detriment, are paying for those tax incentives albeit indirectly and Quebec is laughing all the way to the bank. Agreements that Quebec gets from the Feds have been turned down by those same Feds for Alberta & Saskatchewan. So ya, the West continues to get screwed.

In this case I'm "pro" seeing Albertans get a fair return on what are technically publically owned resources. It stinks of corporate greed and government pandering that these companies can claim "record production" and climbing profits and at the same time driving down wages and job opportunities. Are you against the working man getting ahead ?

In a stunning turnaround, oilpatch profitability 'has probably never been better'
Corporate Greed? Major League Baseball is really fucking greedy but then again so is lawn guy and his Corporation.

Even Avon ladies have incorporated if they earn more the $20K a year.

Give your head a shake.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
34,572
3,062
113
Vancouver Island
No, I don't see a threat of separation as a legitimate concern, other than its potential as a waste of important time. I'm just going by what I have seen while working in the sector. I started there before the price crash in 2014/15 and it was a different world, everybody thought it would go on forever. Now it all "keep your head down" and hope the axe misses when it swings again. Smaller satellite business the revolve around the oil patch have been dropping like flies, and union contracts are being systematically replaced with non-union operators,something that wouldn't have happened ten years ago. Ten years ago people had nothing to worry about, now it's nothing but worry. And snake-oil salesmen politicians are the first ones to take advantage of that.
All the result of anti west politicians in Ottawa. Fact is TM should have been pumping oil 10 years ago if turdOWE and his ilk had just stayed out of the way instead of deliberately putting up roadblocks. This anti west attitude is what has caused our economic woes.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
34,572
3,062
113
Vancouver Island
There used to be a time when the corporate equation held management, shareholders, employees and suppliers in equal esteem. There was some concern to see that everybody was treated fairly and was able to benefit from the relationship. Then a guy named Milton Freidman wrote a little essay that changed the world. The essay was titled "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase Its Profits" and was first published in the New York Times in 1970. It signaled the onset of Neo-Liberal economics, and while hailed as a breakthrough at the time, earning Freidman a Nobel Prize, it is now seen as square one of a social decline that has given us an unsustainable accumulation of wealth in the hands of a very, very few, a rotting environment, and a world starkly divided along political and economic lines.

Milton Friedman On The Social Responsibility of Business, 50 Years Later

This is not a plea for an end to capitalism, more a plea for the pre-Freidman form of capitalism where employees where not just numbers in a ledger, but part of a team, and employers were a part of a society that prospered as a whole.
The problem with that is government policies that make cutting costs the main activity of companies.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,540
308
83
Penticton, BC
The problem with that is government policies that make cutting costs the main activity of companies.
In truth, the problem is company policies that service the companies only, that have the support of government. Right now, companies are the problem and government is the enabler.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,540
308
83
Penticton, BC
All the result of anti west politicians in Ottawa. Fact is TM should have been pumping oil 10 years ago if turdOWE and his ilk had just stayed out of the way instead of deliberately putting up roadblocks. This anti west attitude is what has caused our economic woes.
Yabbut...politicians run on votes, and there are lots of votes that would just as soon see the oilsands whither and die. They may not be particulalry well-informed, but they still get a vote. There is still an important place in Canada's economy for a thriving oil and gas sector for a few decades at least, but we can't ignore the mounting pressure from the environmental lobby, nor can we expect the government to step in and prop up an industry that can't stand on its own. What a lot of people don't want to look at is that perhaps the biggest obstacle to Canadian O&G interests is American O&G interests. I agree that the TMX is an essential part to the survival of the Canadian oil industry, but it is what it is. You don't get to steamroller over concerns of stakeholders, not without consequences.

Note to ponder: Should the west separate, would First Nations still have a voice that would be listened to ?
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
22,125
3,234
113
B.C.
In truth, the problem is company policies that service the companies only, that have the support of government. Right now, companies are the problem and government is the enabler.
Government and it’s bloated bureaucracy is the problem . Companies would employ more at better wages if they weren’t wasting so many resources jumping through government hoops .
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
22,125
3,234
113
B.C.
Yabbut...politicians run on votes, and there are lots of votes that would just as soon see the oilsands whither and die. They may not be particulalry well-informed, but they still get a vote. There is still an important place in Canada's economy for a thriving oil and gas sector for a few decades at least, but we can't ignore the mounting pressure from the environmental lobby, nor can we expect the government to step in and prop up an industry that can't stand on its own. What a lot of people don't want to look at is that perhaps the biggest obstacle to Canadian O&G interests is American O&G interests. I agree that the TMX is an essential part to the survival of the Canadian oil industry, but it is what it is. You don't get to steamroller over concerns of stakeholders, not without consequences.

Note to ponder: Should the west separate, would First Nations still have a voice that would be listened to ?
The biggest obstacle the oil and gas sector face is once again government and it’s bloated bureaucracy. And why are those people not well informed when we have a government crown corporation to inform the populace ?
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
22,125
3,234
113
B.C.
Yabbut...politicians run on votes, and there are lots of votes that would just as soon see the oilsands whither and die. They may not be particulalry well-informed, but they still get a vote. There is still an important place in Canada's economy for a thriving oil and gas sector for a few decades at least, but we can't ignore the mounting pressure from the environmental lobby, nor can we expect the government to step in and prop up an industry that can't stand on its own. What a lot of people don't want to look at is that perhaps the biggest obstacle to Canadian O&G interests is American O&G interests. I agree that the TMX is an essential part to the survival of the Canadian oil industry, but it is what it is. You don't get to steamroller over concerns of stakeholders, not without consequences.

Note to ponder: Should the west separate, would First Nations still have a voice that would be listened to ?
No Indian Act , something else will be enacted . Hopefully title over their land and self determination.
 

bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
885
694
93
They aren't land holders. 5 Chiefs are allowing BHP to build and extract the resources at Jansen that belong to those 5 tribes.
Any experience with First Nations will bode well for BHP in the Ring of Fire. Transportation corridor has been announced. Believe chromite is driving the development with comparable resource estimates to the Sudbury basin where they mentioned $400 billion has already been mined. That is a lot of nickel.

Thought at the time (2012 /13) BHP was buying a lot of farm land anywhere near Jansen / Leroy / Lanigan. Big enough company to be able to be patient is their advantage.