Erin O'Toole Under Fire

pgs

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Nov 29, 2008
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I don't think it's broken beyond repair, it's just in need of a tune-up. The free-market capitalism with government sponsored social programs model is basically a good one, it keeps those who need help covered and still rewards individual achievement. In my opinion we have let it slip out of balance, where the freedom of a "free" market is not being used responsibly by the corporate sector. A disproportionate amount of the benefits are going to a very few, and a little more "trickle down" that shows up in benefit for all Canadians is in order. It's worth the time to put a little research in to just what sort of effects our current level of income inequality is having on the overall picture. It's worth the time to put a little research into the effects neo-liberal policies have had since their appearance in the sixties and seventies.
That is not where Canada’s problems lie . Quebec’s control of the bureaucracy and their disproportionate vote share is the bigger issue . We have Alberta and Saskatchewan feeling , not without good reason , they are left out .
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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That is not where Canada’s problems lie . Quebec’s control of the bureaucracy and their disproportionate vote share is the bigger issue . We have Alberta and Saskatchewan feeling , not without good reason , they are left out .
It's set up that way because Saskatchewan got too powerful too fast for Ontario and Quebec's liking and that hasn't changed.
 
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Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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Penticton, BC
That is not where Canada’s problems lie . Quebec’s control of the bureaucracy and their disproportionate vote share is the bigger issue . We have Alberta and Saskatchewan feeling , not without good reason , they are left out .
I have to admit I'm largely uninformed about the political situation in Quebec. My first instinct is that they get coddled by the feds just because of the potential they have to make a big mess of things at a time when we have more important stuff on our plate. The Alberta/Saskatchewan situation is interesting though. It's no coincidence that both of those provinces are at the heart of Canada's petro-resource picture, and that sector is in the midst of a shit storm of politics right now, and a lot of that is bad politics. Bad politics in the form of politicians who see a path to power by stirring up anger and resentment among the voters, because they know better than anyone that an angry voter is not a thinking voter. Also interesting that the CPC is losing ground to separatist parties in those provinces, which in the end isn't going to accomplish much more than splitting the vote and giving the Libs a shot at a majority government. That would not be a good thing in my mind.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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I don't think it's broken beyond repair, it's just in need of a tune-up. The free-market capitalism with government sponsored social programs model is basically a good one, it keeps those who need help covered and still rewards individual achievement. In my opinion we have let it slip out of balance, where the freedom of a "free" market is not being used responsibly by the corporate sector. A disproportionate amount of the benefits are going to a very few, and a little more "trickle down" that shows up in benefit for all Canadians is in order. It's worth the time to put a little research in to just what sort of effects our current level of income inequality is having on the overall picture. It's worth the time to put a little research into the effects neo-liberal policies have had since their appearance in the sixties and seventies.
It needs more of a total rebuild than a tune up.
 
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taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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I have to admit I'm largely uninformed about the political situation in Quebec. My first instinct is that they get coddled by the feds just because of the potential they have to make a big mess of things at a time when we have more important stuff on our plate. The Alberta/Saskatchewan situation is interesting though. It's no coincidence that both of those provinces are at the heart of Canada's petro-resource picture, and that sector is in the midst of a shit storm of politics right now, and a lot of that is bad politics. Bad politics in the form of politicians who see a path to power by stirring up anger and resentment among the voters, because they know better than anyone that an angry voter is not a thinking voter. Also interesting that the CPC is losing ground to separatist parties in those provinces, which in the end isn't going to accomplish much more than splitting the vote and giving the Libs a shot at a majority government. That would not be a good thing in my mind.
The politicians stirring up anger and resentment in Alberta and Saskatchewan are all based east of Manitoba. The Laurentian elete, that includes members of both parties are deathly afraid of an independent west because that is the golden egg that they are busy trying to break.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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I have to admit I'm largely uninformed about the political situation in Quebec. My first instinct is that they get coddled by the feds just because of the potential they have to make a big mess of things at a time when we have more important stuff on our plate. The Alberta/Saskatchewan situation is interesting though. It's no coincidence that both of those provinces are at the heart of Canada's petro-resource picture, and that sector is in the midst of a shit storm of politics right now, and a lot of that is bad politics. Bad politics in the form of politicians who see a path to power by stirring up anger and resentment among the voters, because they know better than anyone that an angry voter is not a thinking voter. Also interesting that the CPC is losing ground to separatist parties in those provinces, which in the end isn't going to accomplish much more than splitting the vote and giving the Libs a shot at a majority government. That would not be a good thing in my mind.
You won't see a Lib lead in the first place in the West or gain ground. Protest votes in sure Con ridings speaks volumes not to Libs but to the Cons.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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Penticton, BC
The politicians stirring up anger and resentment in Alberta and Saskatchewan are all based east of Manitoba. The Laurentian elete, that includes members of both parties are deathly afraid of an independent west because that is the golden egg that they are busy trying to break.
I doubt a separatist movement would ever succeed in breaking up the country, but like Quebec they have the potential to waste a lot of important time. The oil & gas sector is an easy target for those trying to stir up drama and tension because there's a lot of uncertainty in that industry right now. Jobs are disappearing and wages are dropping and what once was cash cow for many is now filed under "precarious employment". Voters love to have someone to blame, and there is no shortage of politicians willing to give then that in exchange for their vote. Truth isn't part of that equation.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,770
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Penticton, BC
You won't see a Lib lead in the first place in the West or gain ground. Protest votes in sure Con ridings speaks volumes not to Libs but to the Cons.
That is cause for concern though. Fringe conservative parties are ticking up in Alberta and Saskatchewan, as are the NDP, but the seat projection for the coming election still shows pretty much solid blue in both provinces at present. I shudder at the thought of a Liberal majority, there really needs to be the threat of a non-confidence vote to keep them in line.
 
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petros

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If youre still stuck on O&G as reasons for separation you'll never understand. This goes back generations to before the 1980s O&G boom and forward.
 
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bob the dog

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Aug 14, 2020
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Wow. You have things completely upside down.

The Liberal Party is the party of Bay Street. Want evidence? The PM was born a millionaire, the finance minister for 5 years was born a millionaire, while the leader and the finance critic of the Conservatives were born to modest, middle class families.

Want more evidence? The Liberal Party hid a clause in an omnibus bill alloing deferred prosecutions for the benefit of SNC-Lavalin, and then interferred with a criminal prosecution to spare the Laurentian Elite a prosecution on bribery charges.

Now THAT is privilege by bank account.

The Liberals are doing what lefty morons always do.....wrecking the economy so everyone (except the elites) are equally miserable.

Add to that fact they have burdened us with debt that will cause inflation, eating up peoples' savings and degrading their quality of life, and the fact that they are a threat to liberty, are trying to shut down free speech, and have violated the spirit (if not the letter) of the Charter a couple of times.........and their absolute lack of either ethics or competence, and it is clear that a vote for the Liberals is simple national suicide.

In fact, considering that the only other national party in the House will vote for the Liberal minority every time, a vote for anyone other than the Conservative Party is a move in the wrong direction.
Started out good but lost it with by identifying the Conservatives as an alternative.

The west needs independent representation similar to how Quebec has chosen to have their own independent representation. It doesn't have to be a separatist movement but could be if needed to be.

There is no trust left to support the current direction of Canadian politics, Cue the revolution sooner or later.
 
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Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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Penticton, BC
If youre still stuck on O&G as reasons for separation you'll never understand. This goes back generations to before the 1980s O&G boom and forward.
No, I don't see a threat of separation as a legitimate concern, other than its potential as a waste of important time. I'm just going by what I have seen while working in the sector. I started there before the price crash in 2014/15 and it was a different world, everybody thought it would go on forever. Now it all "keep your head down" and hope the axe misses when it swings again. Smaller satellite business the revolve around the oil patch have been dropping like flies, and union contracts are being systematically replaced with non-union operators,something that wouldn't have happened ten years ago. Ten years ago people had nothing to worry about, now it's nothing but worry. And snake-oil salesmen politicians are the first ones to take advantage of that.
 

bob the dog

Electoral Member
Aug 14, 2020
887
698
93
If youre still stuck on O&G as reasons for separation you'll never understand. This goes back generations to before the 1980s O&G boom and forward.
Any insight into BHP making a move on Noront and their Ring of Fire properties?

Add that to the Jansen properties and they are significant land holders in Canada. Sad to see and not very different from the days of the fur trade.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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No, I don't see a threat of separation as a legitimate concern, other than its potential as a waste of important time. I'm just going by what I have seen while working in the sector. I started there before the price crash in 2014/15 and it was a different world, everybody thought it would go on forever. Now it all "keep your head down" and hope the axe misses when it swings again. Smaller satellite business the revolve around the oil patch have been dropping like flies, and union contracts are being systematically replaced with non-union operators,something that wouldn't have happened ten years ago. Ten years ago people had nothing to worry about, now it's nothing but worry. And snake-oil salesmen politicians are the first ones to take advantage of that.
If you build a house do you keep paying tradesmen when building is done?
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,770
437
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Penticton, BC
There is no trust left to support the current direction of Canadian politics, Cue the revolution sooner or later.
It sure is looking that way. Lumping the Libs and the CPC together as varying degrees of center, it does look like support is shifting further away from there in both directions.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Any insight into BHP making a move on Noront and their Ring of Fire properties?

Add that to the Jansen properties and they are significant land holders in Canada. Sad to see and not very different from the days of the fur trade.
They aren't land holders. 5 Chiefs are allowing BHP to build and extract the resources at Jansen that belong to those 5 tribes.
 
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Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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Penticton, BC
If you build a house do you keep paying tradesmen when building is done?
This is happening at sites that passed out of the construction phase years ago. I've watched things progress through the oilsands starting with the richest contracts and working from there. Sure, it's just business, but the whole "Alberta Advantage" thing was founded on a promise of plentiful good jobs and tax revenue, both of which have been in decline for a decade while people like Kenney keep pouring money into a dying dream. The producers and their shareholders are doing fine, rank-and-file Albertans not so much.