Did Muhammad foresee the End of Islam?

[Machjo]

"The Apostle of God said: `There will come a time for my people when there will remain nothing of the Qur'an except its outward form and nothing of Islam except its name and they will call themselves by this name even though they are the people furthest from it. The mosques will be full of people but they will be empty of right guidance. The religious leaders (Fuqaha) of that day will be the most evil religious leaders under the heavens; sedition and dissension will go out from them and to them will it return.' " -ibn Babuya, Thawab ul-A'mal

 

[Jay]

Resembles the predicament they find themselves in right now....

 

[FiveParadox]

To be frank, I agree with Jay.

In fact, I believe that the current Coalition of Muslims in Canada (the group formally protesting their Muslim brothers' and sisters' use of violence abroad) has made reference to such a situation — whereby some across the sea have lost the true essence of Islam, and are continuing under the same number, while actually following some perversion of the intended faith.

 

[Machjo]

"Allah will not retract this knowledge by a withdrawal, [suddenly] withdrawing it from people's hearts, but He will retract knowledge by retracting the scholars, until, when He has left no scholar, people will take ignorant leaders, who will be asked, and will pronounce verdicts without knowledge, thus going astray and leading others astray." [Bukhari, Muslim]

"Indeed, among the signs of the Hour are that knowledge be sought with the petty ones." [Tabarani]

"What will be your situation when tribulation envelops you, in which a youngster will grow and the older one will become aged, and [the tribulation] will be taken as sunnah, such that if it is changed one day, it will be said, ‘This is wrong!’" Someone asked, "When is that?" He said, "When your trustworthy ones are few, and your leaders are many; when your jurists are few and your reciters are many, and knowledge is acquired for other than [the sake of] religion, and the world is sought through the deeds of the Hereafter." [Darimi, al-Hakim]

"This is [almost] the time when knowledge will be snatched from people, such that they will not be capable of [practising] any of it." [Tirmidhi (hasan gharib), al-Hakim, Darimi]

"Verily, you shall surely follow the pattern of those who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit, to the extent that if they entered a lizard’s hole, you would follow them." [Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad]

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah : While the Messenger of Allah D was talking, a Bedouin came and asked, "When is the Hour?" [The Prophet (may Allah bless him and his Household and grant them peace)] replied, "When trust is lost then await the Hour." [The Bedouin] asked, "How will its loss occur?" He replied, "When affairs are rested with those unworthy of [handling] them, then await the Hour." [Bukhari]

"There shall come upon people deceptive years, in which the liar will be regarded as truthful, the truthful one will be regarded as a liar, the treacherous one will be trusted, the trustworthy one will be mistrusted, and in which al-Ruwaybidah will speak." Someone asked, "What is al-Ruwaybidah?" He said, "A paltry man speaking about the affair/business of the general public." [Ahmad, Ibn Majah, al-Hakim]

"By He in Whose hand is my soul! The world shall not pass [away] before there comes upon people a day in which the murderer will not know why he has murdered, nor will the murdered one know why he has been killed." [Muslim]

"Time will contract (i.e. it will appear to be shorter, and its blessings will vanish, such that people will accomplish less in more time), knowledge will be lifted up, stinginess will be cast [into people’s hearts], tribulations will appear, and killing will be much." [Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud]

"Make haste to do [good] deeds before six [things] :
[1] the leadership of fools,
[2] the proliferation of police / government agents,
[3] the selling of judgement,
[4] blood being taken lightly,
[5] severance of [ties of] kinship,
[6] people who will take the Qur’an as music, sending ahead one of them to sing for them, even though he may be least of them in knowledge/understanding [of the religion]." [Ahmad, Tabarani]

 

[Machjo]

It would seem the Prophet (PBUH) had clearly seen and foreseen the birth, rise, zenith, decline and END of Islam.

 

[the caracal kid]

Globally, Islam is growing.
Globally, Christianity is shrinking.

While all of the monotheistics have references to their own ends, we are not going to witness the collapse of any of abraham's three bloody children anytime soon.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Did Muhammad foresee the End of Islam?

Globally, Islam is growing.
Globally, Christianity is shrinking.

While all of the monotheistics have references to their own ends, we are not going to witness the collapse of any of abraham's three bloody children anytime soon.

From what I read of these ahadith, I don't think they were referring to the outward form of the religion. Sure mosques are being built, and people convertin, etc. And many Muslims aregood people. I think the meaning ehre was that the leadership of this faith has died. Not literally of course, but in spirit. Let's just look at the state of Islam today. It's a raging inferno.

 

[the caracal kid]

Theocracy tends to have that effect.

 

[Finder]

I agree theocracy does have that effect. As I have always said, the true worship of your god comes from yourself, not from showing up at church, or enforcing laws by church doctrine.

Here here!

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Did Muhammad foresee the End of Islam?

Globally, Islam is growing.
Globally, Christianity is shrinking.

While all of the monotheistics have references to their own ends, we are not going to witness the collapse of any of abraham's three bloody children anytime soon.

From what I read of these ahadith, I don't think they were referring to the outward form of the religion. Sure mosques are being built, and people convertin, etc. And many Muslims aregood people. I think the meaning ehre was that the leadership of this faith has died. Not literally of course, but in spirit. Let's just look at the state of Islam today. It's a raging inferno.

I don't think it is implying the end of Islam though, an age in Islam or the end of the world perhaps....

 

[Finder]

BTW you can totally believe in God, Allah and the mighty cow god, and be seculer too! Absolute thought absoltely pisses me off! :twisted:

 

[Ali Mahdi]

RE: Did Muhammad foresee

Imam al-Mahdi (AJ) will come soon and revive true Islam! It will be very different from the Islam practiced by most people today!

 

[FiveParadox]

I adore the viewpoint that you bring to the forefront on Canadian Content, Ali Mahdi. I urge you to continue to post here whenever possible — I love having the more innocent and moderate views posted here as opposed to the more extremist views propagated by news stories and the mainstream media.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Did Muhammad foresee

Imam al-Mahdi (AJ) will come soon and revive true Islam! It will be very different from the Islam practiced by most people today!

Not all of us are ignorant. Though I do not like how sme people have perverted Islam to suite there own interests there is a lot of good in the Koran, and the Prophet did a lot of good during his time on earth for the people. People often forget how barbaric the area was and at the time of the Koran, the teachings of the Prophet gave many new rights to woman and other minorities. Though I think some may read into the Koran way too literally today, if you look at the Koran and take many of it's meanings and studying them properly it has many good lessions to learn even in todays society. Ever since I've read the Koran I have gone onto a halal diet. Though this was a personal choice and I'm not 100% why I chose to follow it.

I'm guessing by your post you are Shi'a?

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Did Muhammad foresee

Imam al-Mahdi (AJ) will come soon and revive true Islam!

Some say He's already come.

 

[jimmoyer]

If he is Shia, he's a minority in the muslim world.

Except for Iran and Iraq, the only shia majorities in
any muslim country.

 

[FiveParadox]

Shi'a Muslims on Earth

Notwithstanding whether or not Shi'a Muslims are a majority of Muslims on Earth, I appreciate having a Muslim voice on Canadian Content. I value the opinion of Ali Mahdi — it is proof that extremist Islam is not the only facet of the faith.

 

[Machjo]

Though I'm not a Muslim myself, I also believe in the Qur'an and Ahadith of the Madhhabi Ithna 'Ashari'a (Church of the Twelve, the largest of the Shi'a).

The difference, however, is that Baha'is believe that the prophecies of the Qur'an and Bible have already been fulfilled for the most part, and that Baha'u'llah is the Promissed One for this age.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Did Muhammad foresee the End of Islam?

Though I'm not a Muslim myself, I also believe in the Qur'an and Ahadith of the Madhhabi Ithna 'Ashari'a (Church of the Twelve, the largest of the Shi'a).

The difference, however, is that Baha'is believe that the prophecies of the Qur'an and Bible have already been fulfilled for the most part, and that Baha'u'llah is the Promissed One for this age.

Baha'i can't be considered Islamic even though they chose to believe parts of the Koran. One of the main problems here is one of the main beliefs of Islam is the belief that Mohammad was the last Prophet of God, often called the seal of the Prophets. Baha'i believe in many prophets, after the Prophet Mohammad which would not really make them Islamic. Though in the Koran there is a problem to this as well. In the Koran it says you can not denny someone from calling themselves a Muslim. So yeah...

jimmoyer, when I studied Islam, I was taught by Shia followers and went to a Shia Mosque. I think the main problem I have with Shia'ism or at least conservative Shia'ism is the stupidity behind the self mutilation. Also a problem with Shia'ism, Suni'ism and Wahabism is the none-Islamic traditions which have been added for no reason but are followed as if they are apart of the Koran and religion.

I think if you interrupt the Koran on a De'ist level, Islam fits well into modern society. But in the East and even in other parts of the world there is strong and sometimes only conservative and ultra conservative interruptions.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Did Muhammad foresee the End of Islam?

Baha'i can't be considered Islamic

In a sence tht's true. We folow our own sacred texts.

even though they chose to believe parts of the Koran.

Not accurate. We accept the entire Qur'an in the same way as Christians accept teh Old Testament. We believe it's prophecies have been fulfilled and it's laws abrogated.

One of the main problems here is one of the main beliefs of Islam is the belief that Mohammad was the last Prophet of God, often called the seal of the Prophets.

Ah, yes, "Al-Khatam-Al-Nabiyin", the Seal of the Prophets. There is a catch here, however. The Imams had also said "Muhammad our first! Muhammad our last! Muhammad our all!

Jesus had likewise said " I am the alpha and the omega, the first and teh last, the beginning and the end".

So yes, Muhammad is the last of the prophets, yet He is also the first, as is Jesus. Yet Muhammad had likewise stated numerous times in the Qur'an, "No distinction do we make between any of our Messengers". This would seem to confirm the earlier statements of Jesus and Muhammad relating to the idea that the beginning and the end are one.


Baha'i believe in many prophets, after the Prophet Mohammad which would not really make them Islamic.

That's the main difference between Baha'is and Muslims. The same main difference distinguishing Muslims from Christians and Christians from Jews.

Though in the Koran there is a problem to this as well. In the Koran it says you can not denny someone from calling themselves a Muslim. So yeah...

We must be careful with terminology here. The English words Muslim and "He/One/She who submits" are both translated as Muslimun (-un mearely being a grammatical suffix indecating the indefinite nominative). So did it mean Muslim as in one who abides by the social teachings of faith founded by the Prophet Muhammad, or did it mean, quite simply, "one who submits"?

jimmoyer, when I studied Islam, I was taught by Shia followers and went to a Shia Mosque. I think the main problem I have with Shia'ism or at least conservative Shia'ism is the stupidity behind the self mutilation.

But did Islam approve of self mutilation? I doubt it. And even if it did, it wouldn't apply to baha'is any more than the Gospel applies to Muslims or the Old Testament to Christians.

Also a problem with Shia'ism, Suni'ism and Wahabism is the none-Islamic traditions which have been added for no reason but are followed as if they are apart of the Koran and religion.

That is a big problem which has also infiltrated deeply into islamic theology today.

I think if you interrupt the Koran on a De'ist level, Islam fits well into modern society. But in the East and even in other parts of the world there is strong and sometimes only conservative and ultra conservative interruptions.

Well, again, for a Baha'i this is now a non-issue sinse we believe the laws of the Qur'an to have been replaced with hew laws for a new era.