Clueless CNN reporters are shocked at rape coverage backlash

[Sal]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask..."why did they think this was okay?" And now I am going to say: because they were raised that way.

First let me state unequivocally I do not believe it is always the parents fault. But with this type of over the top behavior is it wrong to wonder, how the fk does a kid get to this kind of place where they can not make the right choice? Can not see it is wrong? HOW?

I think it starts with no boundaries, no rules, no expectation level... not saying NO. And not directing one's children and helping them to understand they are pack animals and packs have rules. If you break the rules the pack will shun you, you aren't all that SPECIAL and YOUR rights end when you violate someone else's.

And it starts when they are little.

 

[karrie]

"why did they think this was okay?" .....

And it starts when they are little.

The cult of self esteem.... 'you're special, you're the best, you're entitled'.

 

[shadowshiv]

A lot of people don't trust or like the police anymore.

They see it as "doing the pigs a favour".

But they wouldn't be doing the "pigs" a favour, they would be doing the victim a favour. That is why I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

[SLM]

But they wouldn't be doing the "pigs" a favour, they would be doing the victim a favour. That is why I just can't wrap my head around it.

Neither can I but that kind of distrust must run pretty deep. I saw a documentary on Picton on ID Discovery, they were talking with the woman who had been his maid at the time of all the killing. She had suspected something might be going on but her mistrust of the police kept her from saying anything! Even during the interview, well after the fact, when she knew exactly what had transpired, she had more animosity for the police than she did for what he was doing to those women! I couldn't fathom someone being so stupid as to not comprehend that, because she had done nothing, people had died.

 

[shadowshiv]

Neither can I but that kind of distrust must run pretty deep. I saw a documentary on Picton on ID Discovery, they were talking with the woman who had been his maid at the time of all the killing. She had suspected something might be going on but her mistrust of the police kept her from saying anything! Even during the interview, well after the fact, when she knew exactly what had transpired, she had more animosity for the police than she did for what he was doing to those women! I couldn't fathom someone being so stupid as to not comprehend that, because she had done nothing, people had died.

That maid needed to be slapped upside the head. That goes beyond distrust. That is just plain stupidity and malice. How many women would still be alive had she spoken to the police instead of keeping her mouth shut?

 

[SLM]

That maid needed to be slapped upside the head. That goes beyond distrust. That is just plain stupidity and malice. How many women would still be alive had she spoken to the police instead of keeping her mouth shut?

I agree. I wouldn't be able to live with myself. Even, by some stretch of the imagination if I'd been in some kind of denial throughout, the guilt afterwards would crush me. I cannot fathom the selfishness.

 

[CDNBear]

What I find pathetic is that around 16 people refused to cooperate with the police. A girl was raped, and yet you don't want to say anything? Why? Are they trying to protect their buddies or was there another reason?

"Stop snitching".

A lot of people don't trust or like the police anymore.

They see it as "doing the pigs a favour".

I long for the days of whole communities banding together to take back their streets and helping police deal with crime and criminals.

Cdn Bear, I have NEVER "had a drunken romp". I was raised to understand that you do NOT take advantage of children, the mentally ill, physically disabled, those not in control of themselves, etc.

Or to put it simply, I was raised with MORAL TEACHING, something that you imply you did not get.

There is absolutey NO excuse for what those CRIMINALS did, the only sad part concerning them is that they got such a light sentence.

Yes, they will have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. This will prevent them from ever entering into any licensed occupation, any occupation in which they would deal with money, working with children or the handicapped, etc.

It was THEIR poor decision making that caused this, and nothing else.

Shame on anyone that excuses such behavior!

It would have been far more helpful if your parents didn't raise an idiot.

twit

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[SLM]

"Stop snitching".

There's also the mentality of "she must have been asking for it" that still thrives out there for a hell of a lot of people. Makes it easier for them to excuse their own actions or inactions as the case may be.

 

[CDNBear]

There's also the mentality of "she must have been asking for it" that still thrives out there for a hell of a lot of people.

And?

If I walk into the woods in October, wearing a brown Carhart jacket, dollar store antlers, while grunting, if I get shot, am I wholly innocent in my own demise?

Makes it easier for them to excuse their own actions or inactions as the case may be.

Or maybe they feel equality doesn't end personal responsibility?

 

[SLM]

And?

If I walk into the woods in October, wearing a brown Carhart jacket, dollar store antlers, while grunting, if I get shot, am I wholly innocent in my own demise?

If the hunter is looking for people to shoot, then it's entirely his responsibility. If he/she is out looking for deer and shoots a person, that's an accident.

How does one accidentially rape someone anyway? Mistakenly rape someone?

Or maybe they feel equality doesn't end personal responsibility?

There is a big difference between engaging in behaviour that increases risks to your safety and being responsible for someone else deciding to do you harm.

 

[CDNBear]

If the hunter is looking for people to shoot, then it's entirely his responsibility. If he/she is out looking for deer and shoots a person, that's an accident.

That doesn't answer the question.

There is a big difference between engaging in behaviour that increases risks to your safety and being responsible for someone else deciding to do you harm.

How about just being a little responsible for your own behavior?

The police don't care about acts of god, when rescuing people off the lake. If you place yourself in a position of greater risk, and the police have to rescue you, you will be liable for the costs.

Why the double standard?

 

[wulfie68]

Or maybe they feel equality doesn't end personal responsibility?

But that doesn't fit either. How is raping someone guilty of poor judgement appropriate or acceptable under any circumstance? Saying the girl is at fault is equivalent to saying two wrongs make a right.

The girl made a bad choice in terms of drinking to excess. This mistake was compounded by who she was with but that still doesn't equate to her "asking for it" or deserving rape. I think I stated earlier that I am OK with the boys/young men being tried and punished as juveniles, given the circumstances and age of everyone involved, and I still hold that opinion (with the caveat that they didn't commit more rapes/sexual assaults, as is now being alleged). There are no angels in this story but there are some people who acted worse and deserve more censure than others.

 

[CDNBear]

But that doesn't fit either. How is raping someone guilty of poor judgement appropriate or acceptable under any circumstance? Saying the girl is at fault is equivalent to saying two wrongs make a right.

I never said she was at fault. I proposed that she bears some responsibility.

This mistake was compounded by who she was with but that still doesn't equate to her "asking for it" or deserving rape.

Ahhh, at least you recognize that there was a mistake made.

In jurisprudence, mistakes have ramifications, unless of course we're talking about a rape victim.

Thus absolving the victim of all responsibility.

There are no angels in this story but there are some people who acted worse and deserve more censure than others.

I agree, but only two people have been railed (ignoring for the moment that there are other youths, not the victim, involved) while the victims actions have apparently had no bearing.

 

[wulfie68]

I never said she was at fault. I proposed that she bears some responsibility.

Ahhh, at least you recognize that there was a mistake made.

In jurisprudence, mistakes have ramifications, unless of course we're talking about a rape victim.

Thus absolving the victim of all responsibility.

I agree, but only two people have been railed (ignoring for the moment that there are other youths, not the victim, involved) while the victim actions have apparently had no bearing.

There were multiple mistakes made here. On the part of the victim, on the part of her assailants (and this is still giving them some benefit of the doubt in terms of them not being sexual predators looking for this type of situation to exploit), on those who witnessed what was going on and chose not to intervene, and possibly those who tried to cover this all up, if the allegations are true.

Now the victim was raped. The assailants were charged and found guilty. Prosecutors are looking for ways to charge those who a) witnessed and did nothing, and b) may have participated in a cover up. Based on all this, how can you say only 2 people are being railed? Its an ugly mess but so far the one that has faced most extreme consequence for the transgression is the girl...

 

[SLM]

That doesn't answer the question.

But you're still taking a scenario in which an accident occurs and comparing it with a scenario in which someone makes a choice to perform an act that does someone harm. They are incomparable in that sense. Completely and totally.

How about just being a little responsible for your own behavior?

Yes how about that? Drinking until you pass out is stupid. Accepting a drink that could have been laced with a ruphie is stupid. Her behaviour, her risk, her stupidity. Seeing a girl lying passed out and then deciding to climb on top of her get your rocks off is not her behaviour. It is his choice. He could have chosen to turn around and walk away. He/they did not.

The police don't care about acts of god, when rescuing people off the lake. If you place yourself in a position of greater risk, and the police have to rescue you, you will be liable for the costs.

Why the double standard?

This is a scenario in which no other party is involved in the harm that befalls you. Again not a valid comparison.

She is responsible for her behaviour, he is responsible for his. I don't see how that's a double standard.

 

[CDNBear]

There were multiple mistakes made here. On the part of the victim, on the part of her assailants (and this is still giving them some benefit of the doubt in terms of them not being sexual predators looking for this type of situation to exploit), on those who witnessed what was going on and chose not to intervene, and possibly those who tried to cover this all up, if the allegations are true.

I get all that, but other than the attacks upon her from the community, it would appear the law has not taken into consideration, her role.

Its an ugly mess but so far the one that has faced most extreme consequence for the transgression is the girl...

I'll concede to that. I was narrowly looking at the criminal trial.

But you're still taking a scenario in which an accident occurs and comparing it with a scenario in which someone makes a choice to perform an act that does someone harm. They are incomparable in that sense. Completely and totally.

From the perspective of personal accountability, I disagree.

Yes how about that? Drinking until you pass out is stupid. Accepting a drink that could have been laced with a ruphie is stupid. Her behaviour, her risk, her stupidity. Seeing a girl lying passed out and then deciding to climb on top of her get your rocks off is not her behaviour. It is his choice. He could have chosen to turn around and walk away. He/they did not.

Is that what happened here?

This is a scenario in which no other party is involved in the harm that befalls you. Again not a valid comparison.

Yes it is, on the grounds that some victims are held responsible for their own actions, in some way shape or form.

She is responsible for her behaviour, he is responsible for his. I don't see how that's a double standard.

In the eyes of the law, she bears no responsibility.

 

[wulfie68]

In the eyes of the law, she bears no responsibility.

Well she could face charges based on her underage drinking if prosecutors felt the need to charge her but unless they had BAC readings they probably wouldn't be able to prove it. The judges and prosecutors also have the discretionary ability to choose not to charge her if they feel she has already suffered enough for her actions. Its like the parent who didn't strap in their kid, gets in a wreck and the child dies: any punishment the law imposes is insignificant compared to what they are already going through.

Edit: and further to all that, you are ignoring the fact that everyone was treated as juveniles. If these 2 kids had grabbed this girl off the street and assaulted her, I suspect they would have been charged as adults.

 

[CDNBear]

Well she could face charges based on her underage drinking if prosecutors felt the need to charge her but unless they had BAC readings they probably wouldn't be able to prove it. The judges and prosecutors also have the discretionary ability to choose not to charge her if they feel she has already suffered enough for her actions. Its like the parent who didn't strap in their kid, gets in a wreck and the child dies: any punishment the law imposes is insignificant compared to what they are already going through.

I was referring to her culpability in the actual events that took place.

Edit: and further to all that, you are ignoring the fact that everyone was treated as juveniles. If these 2 kids had grabbed this girl off the street and assaulted her, I suspect they would have been charged as adults.

They should be treated as juveniles, they are juveniles.

 

[SLM]

In the eyes of the law, she bears no responsibility.

Which she doesn't, for the sexual assault.

I have to go to work, I'll revisit this later.

 

[Niflmir]

Of course, the ultimate responsibility for the specific act itself lies with the person who committed the act. We have free will, we choose what we do with it. The choice could have been made to walk away.

But there's no denying the influence of the pack mentality that sets in when these things occur. And it's not male vs female either, as evidenced by the teenage girls that have been accused of threatening the victim over what happened. That there are adults apparently condoning the behaviour by omission of speaking out against it only adds to the problem.

Oh definitely. There are some sociologists who define discrimination in such a way that it is impossible for women to be sexist. In my experience, women are some of the worst supports of sexism. As I see it, sexism is not a man vs. woman problem, it is a problem of a majority of people perpetuating stereotypes that hurt all of us but hurt women in a much more pointed fashion.

These female students victim blaming and worse, making the perpetrators out to be victims just goes to show.