City to take second look at renaming Dundas St.?

spaminator

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City to take second look at renaming Dundas St.?
Author of the article:Antonella Artuso
Published Jan 15, 2023 • 4 minute read

Some Toronto Councillors believe the city should revisit the renaming of Dundas St., including one council member who voted in favour of the change.


Toronto Council voted in 2021 to rename the street and all related public spaces and buildings — a response to namesake Henry Dundas’ role in delaying a vote to abolish the trans-Atlantic slave trade — and is expected to decide on a new name for the major thoroughfare early this year.


Councillor Josh Matlow, who supported the decision at the time, said he would be open to taking another look at the issue and consulting more thoroughly with communities.

An option that could be considered would be to officially end the relationship between Dundas St. and Dundas, while keeping the street name, which would formalize the city’s position on the Scottish politician’s legacy, he said.

“In all candor, I’ve always had some apprehension around this entire debate because I’m not convinced that the vast preponderance of Torontonians had ever heard of Henry Dundas before this debate,” Matlow said. “If this really is going to cost roughly $2 million — at the very least — is it not wiser to invest that money into today’s generation and into critically important initiatives and programs that can support diversity in our city?”


The city received a petition with about 14,000 signatures in 2020 requesting the name change.

A staff report noted that more than 500,000 black people were enslaved in the time between Dundas’ delaying tactics and the official end of the slave trade, although some academics disagree about the man’s motives.

City officials estimated it would cost the TTC about $1.6 million to rename the Dundas and Dundas West stations, Dundas streetcars, all system-wide maps, including those in every subway train and station.

Another $1.3 to $2.2 million will be spent on everything from street name signs to highway directional guides.

The renaming and rebranding of Yonge-Dundas Square came with an estimate of $300,000.


Park and library signs and guides would need to change as would PATH signage for an all-in estimate of $5.1 million to $6.3 million.

Thousands of businesses and residents will need to change their addresses on official documents.

“The Ministry of Transportation is aware of the pending Dundas St. name change and is currently assessing the impact of this on our database,” Dakota Brasier, a spokesperson for Ontario Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney, said in a statement.

While residents will be able to change their address without charge online, they’ll need to visit a Service Ontario location to exchange their existing vehicle permit for one showing the new street address.

The city plans to help businesses with the cost of outdoor signs, but they would still need to make changes to websites, advertising and anything else that bears the Dundas St. name.


“In all honesty, the way that this came about, I think it was done hastily, it was done with very little consultation with the city at large… There were certain groups that were engaged, but I didn’t see any evidence that the business community along Dundas St. — along with other Torontonians — were engaged in this before it happened in any meaningful way,” Matlow said. “So, all in all, I think it’s fair to take a second look at this; I think it’s reasonable.”

About one-third of Toronto council is made up of newly-elected councillors.

Mayor John Tory has backed the name change.




Of the councillors who responded to a Toronto Sun request for their position, Councillors Shelley Carroll and Paula Fletcher continue to endorse renaming Dundas St.

“Councillor (Chris) Moise supports the renaming of Dundas St., as it demonstrates the city’s commitment to reconciliation,” a statement from his office says.

Councillor Stephen Holyday continues to oppose the move, saying he will vote against it if it comes before city council.

Councillor James Pasternak, who also voted against the renaming, said he wished council would take another look at its decision.

The United Kingdom, for instance, has adopted a “retain and explain” policy which keeps the name or monument but includes a plaque with historical context.


“So you would use that as a way to teach history, to learn from history, and not to have mob rule tearing down statues of people they think they know and disagree with,” Pasternak said. “It’s a thoughtful process.

“We cannot spend tens of millions of dollars across our city changing streets and parks and subway stations and libraries and squares when that money would be better spent on fixing some of the social problems we have,” he added.

Pasternak said he has no idea how the city will change all the registered property titles.

Toronto council has also adopted a renaming policy that could trigger rethinks of many other street names in the city, including Yonge St., Vaughan Rd., Simcoe St. and Jarvis St.

“This thing will get totally out of control,” Pasternak cautioned.

aartuso@postmedia.com
 

Serryah

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City to take second look at renaming Dundas St.?
Author of the article:Antonella Artuso
Published Jan 15, 2023 • 4 minute read

Some Toronto Councillors believe the city should revisit the renaming of Dundas St., including one council member who voted in favour of the change.


Toronto Council voted in 2021 to rename the street and all related public spaces and buildings — a response to namesake Henry Dundas’ role in delaying a vote to abolish the trans-Atlantic slave trade — and is expected to decide on a new name for the major thoroughfare early this year.


Councillor Josh Matlow, who supported the decision at the time, said he would be open to taking another look at the issue and consulting more thoroughly with communities.

An option that could be considered would be to officially end the relationship between Dundas St. and Dundas, while keeping the street name, which would formalize the city’s position on the Scottish politician’s legacy, he said.

“In all candor, I’ve always had some apprehension around this entire debate because I’m not convinced that the vast preponderance of Torontonians had ever heard of Henry Dundas before this debate,” Matlow said. “If this really is going to cost roughly $2 million — at the very least — is it not wiser to invest that money into today’s generation and into critically important initiatives and programs that can support diversity in our city?”


The city received a petition with about 14,000 signatures in 2020 requesting the name change.

A staff report noted that more than 500,000 black people were enslaved in the time between Dundas’ delaying tactics and the official end of the slave trade, although some academics disagree about the man’s motives.

City officials estimated it would cost the TTC about $1.6 million to rename the Dundas and Dundas West stations, Dundas streetcars, all system-wide maps, including those in every subway train and station.

Another $1.3 to $2.2 million will be spent on everything from street name signs to highway directional guides.

The renaming and rebranding of Yonge-Dundas Square came with an estimate of $300,000.


Park and library signs and guides would need to change as would PATH signage for an all-in estimate of $5.1 million to $6.3 million.

Thousands of businesses and residents will need to change their addresses on official documents.

“The Ministry of Transportation is aware of the pending Dundas St. name change and is currently assessing the impact of this on our database,” Dakota Brasier, a spokesperson for Ontario Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney, said in a statement.

While residents will be able to change their address without charge online, they’ll need to visit a Service Ontario location to exchange their existing vehicle permit for one showing the new street address.

The city plans to help businesses with the cost of outdoor signs, but they would still need to make changes to websites, advertising and anything else that bears the Dundas St. name.


“In all honesty, the way that this came about, I think it was done hastily, it was done with very little consultation with the city at large… There were certain groups that were engaged, but I didn’t see any evidence that the business community along Dundas St. — along with other Torontonians — were engaged in this before it happened in any meaningful way,” Matlow said. “So, all in all, I think it’s fair to take a second look at this; I think it’s reasonable.”

About one-third of Toronto council is made up of newly-elected councillors.

Mayor John Tory has backed the name change.




Of the councillors who responded to a Toronto Sun request for their position, Councillors Shelley Carroll and Paula Fletcher continue to endorse renaming Dundas St.

“Councillor (Chris) Moise supports the renaming of Dundas St., as it demonstrates the city’s commitment to reconciliation,” a statement from his office says.

Councillor Stephen Holyday continues to oppose the move, saying he will vote against it if it comes before city council.

Councillor James Pasternak, who also voted against the renaming, said he wished council would take another look at its decision.

The United Kingdom, for instance, has adopted a “retain and explain” policy which keeps the name or monument but includes a plaque with historical context.


“So you would use that as a way to teach history, to learn from history, and not to have mob rule tearing down statues of people they think they know and disagree with,” Pasternak said. “It’s a thoughtful process.

“We cannot spend tens of millions of dollars across our city changing streets and parks and subway stations and libraries and squares when that money would be better spent on fixing some of the social problems we have,” he added.

Pasternak said he has no idea how the city will change all the registered property titles.

Toronto council has also adopted a renaming policy that could trigger rethinks of many other street names in the city, including Yonge St., Vaughan Rd., Simcoe St. and Jarvis St.

“This thing will get totally out of control,” Pasternak cautioned.


aartuso@postmedia.com

A valid thought. At what point do you stop renaming streets after people who have questionable histories? Perhaps look for people with the same last name but who did something more 'acceptable' with their lives and use them as the reason for the street name? That way nothing changes, except the person being honored.
 
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IdRatherBeSkiing

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A valid thought. At what point do you stop renaming streets after people who have questionable histories? Perhaps look for people with the same last name but who did something more 'acceptable' with their lives and use them as the reason for the street name? That way nothing changes, except the person being honored.
In all honesty I had never heard of Dundas until they started their brewhaa. But with a city complaining about how broke they are and how they need money from Ontario and Ottawa, wasting $6 million on this stupidity doesn't look good.
 
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Jinentonix

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A valid thought. At what point do you stop renaming streets after people who have questionable histories? Perhaps look for people with the same last name but who did something more 'acceptable' with their lives and use them as the reason for the street name? That way nothing changes, except the person being honored.
I like the irony when they name every street in a subdivision after all the plant life they killed and removed to build said subdivision.

As for your solution, it makes too much sense, Some people would rather uselessly waste a bunch of money to change the name and inconvenience the fuck out of all kinds of people and businesses.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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I like the irony when they name every street in a subdivision after all the plant life they killed and removed to build said subdivision.
Or states after the Native nations they scraped off the land to make 'em.

Washington, DC's probably OK. It'd take a real whiner to complain about "Seventh and K."
 
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Ron in Regina

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Why not just start naming cities and streets using Cockney rhyming slang?

150 years from now, when somebody has an issue with the name, there will be so many different interpretations of its origin, that it’ll just fade away before it even starts, and the naming might be fun.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Why not just start naming cities and streets using Cockney rhyming slang?

150 years from now, when somebody has an issue with the name, there will be so many different interpretations of its origin, that it’ll just fade away before it even starts, and the naming might be fun.
Mispronunciations are fun. "Dumbass Street" is fairly obvious.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Who could possibly have an issue 150 yrs from now with “Dumbass Street” ??? It’s a proud name with a strong heritage, that we made up over drinks on a Tuesday.
Yep, Canadian values. Pride, strength, heritage, booze, and dumb jokes!

Brings a tear to my eye.

O Canada!
My home and native soil
Staggering drunks
And tons of fucking oil!

Deity-of-your-choice we don't judge keep our land
Glorious and free
Finish the damn song because
I got. . . to. . . PEEEEEEEE!
 

harrylee

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Yep, Canadian values. Pride, strength, heritage, booze, and dumb jokes!

Brings a tear to my eye.

O Canada!
My home and native soil
Staggering drunks
And tons of fucking oil!

Deity-of-your-choice we don't judge keep our land
Glorious and free
Finish the damn song because
I got. . . to. . . PEEEEEEEE!
And you still choose to interact with us.
 

Jinentonix

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And once again the leftards prove to us that narrative is far more important than reality to them.

It also became evident that city hall staff tasked with investigating this file were inexperienced in handling such complex work. Rather than provide councillors with unbiased background, the staff report placated a handful of activists using Dundas Street as a step to “decolonize” the city. It produced a brief six-paragraph “report” riddled with inaccuracies that distorted the background of Henry Dundas and any significance he had to Toronto.

More: Patrice Dutil: Henry Dundas was an abolitionist. He deserves a street named after him (msn.com)
 

Ron in Regina

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Henry Dundas isn’t the issue, or giving the street a new name even isn’t the issue. The issue is showing that someone is Woke enough to change the name over… whatever they decide, qualifies for erasing the name.

It’s the action that is important, as opposed to the reasoning behind it.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Henry Dundas isn’t the issue, or giving the street a new name even isn’t the issue. The issue is showing that someone is Woke enough to change the name over… whatever they decide, qualifies for erasing the name.

It’s the action that is important, as opposed to the reasoning behind it.
Maybe y'all could re-name it "Thetthar Street." Y'know, as in "take thet thar street four blocks or so, then turn left on t'other street. You know, the corner where there used to be a Big Boy."

I always wanted to live on the corner of Thetthar and T'Other.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Maybe y'all could re-name it "Thetthar Street." Y'know, as in "take thet thar street four blocks or so, then turn left on t'other street. You know, the corner where there used to be a Big Boy."

I always wanted to live on the corner of Thetthar and T'Other.
Yeah, that one, by the old Smitty’s that’s not there anymore.