Canadians Moving to the US

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Canadians Moving to t

Ah yeah, another shot from the loser from Alberta.

Having a different point of view doesn't mean someone is a loser. Also, he's got a point about the NDP. Obviously if their views resonated with more Canadians then you would see more than 20 or so seats in a 300+ seat parliament. What explanation do you have for never amassing a sizable part of parliament and never forming the opposition federally, let alone the government?

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Canadians Moving to t

Ah yeah, another shot from the loser from Alberta.

Being from Alberta, I am already a winner. But you didn't answer my point about getting what you are paying for, did you. Good swerve.

 

[Derry McKinney]

Having a different point of view doesn't mean someone is a loser.

No, continually losing the argument then trying to change the subject makes him a loser.

What explanation do you have for never amassing a sizable part of parliament and never forming the opposition federally, let alone the government?

There are several. The NDP does not have a chance in Quebec because the BQ is a left of centre party. The Liberals run on NDP social policies but seldom implement them. In ridings where the NDP are battling the Conservatives, the NDP suffers because people are scared into voting Liberal to keep the CPC out. The NDP consistently get more of the popular vote than they do seats. The Conservatives and the Liberals consistently get less of the popular vote than they do seats. The myth of "tax and spend" that is pushed by both Liberals and Conservatives. It simply isn't true. The NDP have been saying how their plans will be paid for as part of their platform for the last several elections. In the last election the NDP platform was found to be the most fiscally responsible out of all three major parties by a majority of economists.

There are several more. If you talk to some political strategists from any party that understand the history of the NDP and of Canadian politics, they can go on all day about it.

The NDP's single biggest problem though? Leadership. There was none between Broadbent and Layton. Alexa wasn't bad, and remains an excellent parliamentarian, but she wasn't a strong enough personality to rebuild the party.

But you didn't answer my point about getting what you are paying for, did you.

That's because I do get what I pay for.

 

[bluealberta]

Having a different point of view doesn't mean someone is a loser.

No, continually losing the argument then trying to change the subject makes him a loser.

I change the subject? This coming from the master at it? :twisted:

What explanation do you have for never amassing a sizable part of parliament and never forming the opposition federally, let alone the government?

There are several. The NDP does not have a chance in Quebec because the BQ is a left of centre party. The Liberals run on NDP social policies but seldom implement them. In ridings where the NDP are battling the Conservatives, the NDP suffers because people are scared into voting Liberal to keep the CPC out. The NDP consistently get more of the popular vote than they do seats. The Conservatives and the Liberals consistently get less of the popular vote than they do seats. The myth of "tax and spend" that is pushed by both Liberals and Conservatives. It simply isn't true. The NDP have been saying how their plans will be paid for as part of their platform for the last several elections. In the last election the NDP platform was found to be the most fiscally responsible out of all three major parties by a majority of economists.

Sounds like sour grapes losing excuses, instead of the real reason: Canadians do not support the NDP policies, as evidenced by the low percentages the NDP consistently gets in the polls. If the voters were scared into voting Liberal, even though they support the NDP, the polls indicating support for the NDP should be higher than they consistently get, especially between elections.

There are several more. If you talk to some political strategists from any party that understand the history of the NDP and of Canadian politics, they can go on all day about it.

The NDP's single biggest problem though? Leadership. There was none between Broadbent and Layton. Alexa wasn't bad, and remains an excellent parliamentarian, but she wasn't a strong enough personality to rebuild the party.

But you didn't answer my point about getting what you are paying for, did you.

That's because I do get what I pay for.

So you are happy with the 35th best health care system in the world that makes people wait in line for service, and in some cases, die before getting to the front of the line? If this is what you paid for, your expectations are very low, compared to the cost. :twisted:

 

[bluealberta]

Having a different point of view doesn't mean someone is a loser.

No, continually losing the argument then trying to change the subject makes him a loser.

I change the subject? This coming from the master at it? :twisted:

What explanation do you have for never amassing a sizable part of parliament and never forming the opposition federally, let alone the government?

There are several. The NDP does not have a chance in Quebec because the BQ is a left of centre party. The Liberals run on NDP social policies but seldom implement them. In ridings where the NDP are battling the Conservatives, the NDP suffers because people are scared into voting Liberal to keep the CPC out. The NDP consistently get more of the popular vote than they do seats. The Conservatives and the Liberals consistently get less of the popular vote than they do seats. The myth of "tax and spend" that is pushed by both Liberals and Conservatives. It simply isn't true. The NDP have been saying how their plans will be paid for as part of their platform for the last several elections. In the last election the NDP platform was found to be the most fiscally responsible out of all three major parties by a majority of economists.

Sounds like sour grapes losing excuses, instead of the real reason: Canadians do not support the NDP policies, as evidenced by the low percentages the NDP consistently gets in the polls. If the voters were scared into voting Liberal, even though they support the NDP, the polls indicating support for the NDP should be higher than they consistently get, especially between elections.

There are several more. If you talk to some political strategists from any party that understand the history of the NDP and of Canadian politics, they can go on all day about it.

The NDP's single biggest problem though? Leadership. There was none between Broadbent and Layton. Alexa wasn't bad, and remains an excellent parliamentarian, but she wasn't a strong enough personality to rebuild the party.

But you didn't answer my point about getting what you are paying for, did you.

That's because I do get what I pay for.

So you are happy with the 35th best health care system in the world that makes people wait in line for service, and in some cases, die before getting to the front of the line? If this is what you paid for, your expectations are very low, compared to the cost. :twisted:

 

[Derry McKinney]

Sounds like sour grapes losing excuses, instead of the real reason:

Sounds to me like your analyical skills are virtually non-existent and your grasp of reality is pretty damned shakey.

Canadians do not support the NDP policies, as evidenced by the low percentages the NDP consistently gets in the polls.

In polls on policy that do not mention parties, the NDP consistently does better than the Conservatives and surpasses the Liberals about half the time.

 

[bluealberta]

Sounds like sour grapes losing excuses, instead of the real reason:

Sounds to me like your analyical skills are virtually non-existent and your grasp of reality is pretty damned shakey.

Canadians do not support the NDP policies, as evidenced by the low percentages the NDP consistently gets in the polls.

In polls on policy that do not mention parties, the NDP consistently does better than the Conservatives and surpasses the Liberals about half the time.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, that's why they are always in the 15 - 20% range, isn't it. :lol: :lol:

 

[Derry McKinney]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[ottawabill]

RE: Canadians Moving to t

Hello, I was part of this Forum on Friday and have been away all weekend. It would appear that this banter at the moment is full of "inside the box" thinking. This country Canada has some major problems either at present of waiting to show their ugly heads soon. " Yes it is vs no it's not " talk will get this country nowhere which has been the case for years. Health care is has fallen apart in Canada and any talk of changing anything is met with "The evil destroyer has arrived to put people on the street...Well give me a break....The system has a problem so much of a problem that more money will solve nothing.

If you car is rusting away new tires will not help...

 

[The Philosopher]

What would help then? A new healthcare system?

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Canadians Moving to t

If you have a classic car that's rusting away you put the money into it and rebuild it. You might add some modern twists, but the car itself remains basically the same.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Canadians Moving to the US

What would help then? A new healthcare system?

What we need is at least an honest discussion about health care and all the options need to be discussed, and facts, not vague innuendoes and scare tactics, need to be looked at. In my view, we need to look at a partnership between private and public which respects the requirements of the health care act. We already have public health care in dentistry, optometry, physiotheray, etc. so there is no need to fear privatization in our day to day health care.

This discussion needs to look at all options, and I think the recent meeting held in Alberta may be the start of this, given that what was discussed was various options from around the world.

Canadians often brag about and identify themselves with our health care system, but it is only 35th in the world and we have staffing shortages, and long wait times. Frankly, to me, this is really not much to brag about, given the enormous amounts of money that is spent on health care in Canada every year.

A new system? No. And expanded system with new options? For sure.

 

[Toro]

RE: Canadians Moving to t

Do you have a link of the 35th ranking?

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Canadians Moving to t

Trying to slip your privatisation plans in through the back door, Blue? Why am I not surprised...

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Canadians Moving to t

Trying to slip your privatisation plans in through the back door, Blue? Why am I not surprised...

The question was asked, I supplied my opinions, right through the front door. I thought that was what this forum was for.

The trouble is, your reaction is what stops reasonable debate. Unless people can sit down with an open mind about every option, then the system will never be fixed.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Canadians Moving to t

Do you have a link of the 35th ranking?

It was mentioned several times on another thread about health care on this forum. There was no dispute from either side about this, so that is why I use it. I believe the link is called "Analyzing Health Care" and was started by a fellow in the US with information comparing our two systems. The link is there, I believe.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Canadians Moving to t

What you supplied, Blue, was a reference to meetings being held to privatise health care. You have yet to acknowledge the fact that NAFTA plays a role in any privatisation. You have steadfastly ignored the fact that the federal government has consistently underfunded all medical care, not just Alberta's. You keep referring to a study that was brought up in the context of you little mutual admiration society, but ignore the fact that our system ranks higher than the US system does.

You want private health care? You know where the border is.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Canadians Moving to t

What you supplied, Blue, was a reference to meetings being held to privatise health care. You have yet to acknowledge the fact that NAFTA plays a role in any privatisation. You have steadfastly ignored the fact that the federal government has consistently underfunded all medical care, not just Alberta's. You keep referring to a study that was brought up in the context of you little mutual admiration society, but ignore the fact that our system ranks higher than the US system does.

You want private health care? You know where the border is.

It was mentioned on several threads, and no one, including you, disputed it. The US system is not totally private, as you well know.And yes, Canada is 35th and the US is 37th. Big deal.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Canadians Moving to t

It is a big deal because the US system, likely the most expensive per capita system on the planet because it is mostly privately owned and operated, is doing a worse job than we are at providing health care.

Now toss in chapter 11 of NAFTA and bring in private care. The Canadian government, once health care becomes a commodity, can be sued to allow US providers in. More than that, whatever remains of our public system can be said to be an anti-competitive government monopoly.

In other words you are opening the door to privatre companies dictating our health care policies and if we don't accede to their demands then our government has to pay their projected lost profits.

We lost the MMT suit. We will likely lose the suits over water eventually. We keep winning the Wheatboard suits, but they just launch new charges. We won, several times, the softwood lumber suit and the US has decided to ignore the rulings.

You are, because of your dogmatic belief that everything should be for profit, willing to put the profits of private companies before the health of Caandians.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Canadians Moving to t

It is a big deal because the US system, likely the most expensive per capita system on the planet because it is mostly privately owned and operated, is doing a worse job than we are at providing health care.

Now toss in chapter 11 of NAFTA and bring in private care. The Canadian government, once health care becomes a commodity, can be sued to allow US providers in. More than that, whatever remains of our public system can be said to be an anti-competitive government monopoly.

In other words you are opening the door to privatre companies dictating our health care policies and if we don't accede to their demands then our government has to pay their projected lost profits.

We lost the MMT suit. We will likely lose the suits over water eventually. We keep winning the Wheatboard suits, but they just launch new charges. We won, several times, the softwood lumber suit and the US has decided to ignore the rulings.

You are, because of your dogmatic belief that everything should be for profit, willing to put the profits of private companies before the health of Caandians.

Simply another case of picking the absolute worst scenario and making a final overstated generalization. Once again you have made irresponsible and ignorant assumptions about what I think and believe. :twisted: