Canadian military screwed in budget

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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So it appears with barely, 1.1 billion and 23,000 new recruits and you have to pay them and what Mogz will address, the military was screwed by the last Canadian budget. So I am disapointed, so is Mogz and other soldiers likely all with different political spectrums.


Mogz said:
Yeah we got ass raped on the budget, but that's just par for the course. I'm just thankful we're getting SOME money. The defence plan is kind of ass backwards if you ask me:

1. How can you bring in 23,000 new troops without places to train and house them? Anyone in Canada that has gone through the training system in the last 2 or 3 years will know that it is utterly broken. We've got something like 500 soldiers and airmen sitting in Borden on PAT (Personel Awaiting Training) Platoons. They sit there, get paid, and just wait for a slot on a course to open up. Some people sit on PAT Platoon for upwards of 6 months. As for housing, there is utterly no where to house troops in Canada. A great example is CFB Edmonton. For enlisted personel we've got four (4) barrack blocks. These are crammed to capacity, there is utterly no where else to put NCMs for housing on the base. At CFB Kingston, on the Vimy Barracks side there is only four (4) SMALL barrack blocks for a SCHOOL which comprises training for Signallers, LCIS Techs, Linemen, FCS Techs, Signal Officers, and ATIS Techs. Each barrack block in Kingston can hold 150 soldiers at BURSTING capacity, that's with 4 to a room. Do the math, that makes a grand total of 600 beds. Considering that at a given time there are in the neighbourhood of 120 Signallers alone, you can see how this can be a problem.

2. Ammo - We are hurting for ammo in the CF. The only thing we have in surplus is 76mm ammo for the Cougar AVGP, which only a FEW reserve units use as indirect fire support. It's said that Canada has enough 76mm ammo to fire off one every day until the end of the Earth. In short, we have a ton of ammo we never use. In regards to everything else, we're short. The lads overseas are fine, they're the priority, but for us stuck back in Canada, ammunition is at a premium for training purposes. Instead of pouring millions of dollars in to recruiting troops that'll sit in Borden, how about getting us a few more 5.56, and 7.62 rounds so we can train?

3. Helicopters - Canada needs heavy lift choppers badly. The only thing green (Army) we have is the CH-146 Griffon, and it's a piece of shit. It's a civilian chopper painted green. Did you know that a Griffon can only carry 3 fully loaded soldiers? By that I mean the men, their fighting order, marching order, ammo, and food. 3. A U.S. Blackhawk can carry 10 fully loaded troops. Our Griffons can't even fly in Afghanistan due to the altitude. Yeah tha'ts a real chopper. Hillier said it himself, we need Chinooks....which i'd like to point out our Government sold in the mid-90's, yes we had Chinooks, but the Liberals saw fit to squash that.

4. Fighting Order - Canads is short on fighting order, and i'm sure Jersay can back me up on this one. There is a national shortage of Tactical Load Bearing Vests. My unit has somewhere in the neighbourhood of 50 people still wearing the 1982 pattern webbing. Furthermore Canada has recently adopted the ICE (Integrated Clothing
Ensemble) Combat Clothing System. This CADPAT clothing replaces the older Olive Drab stuff. Everyone in the Land Force has CADPAT combats, but not everyone has CADPAT jackets, wind pants, rucksacks, parkas, snowpants, gloves, etc. The ICE stuff is superior to the old IECS crap, both in wind resistance, and water resistance. Reservists in Canada, are not entitled to ICE equipment, even though they're expected to do the same work as us in the Reg Force. There are even a few Reg Force units not entitled to ICE, for example, 742 Signals Squadron in Edmonton. Why bring for soldiers in to the Forces when we can't even properly equip the ones we've got right now?

5. Vehicles - We have some good ones, and some bad ones. The good being the G-wagon, HLVW, LAV-III, to name a few. The bad being the LSVW, MLVW, and TLAV. Our Land Force is smattered with crappy vehicles that break down on a regular basis. Did you know that the LSVW often requires a boost to start even in +20 weather? Not overly reliable hey?

6. Aircraft - Canada has no heavily lift ability. We've not had that ability since the 80's. What Canada needs is new CC-130J Hercules, and CC-17 Globemaster heavily lift aircraft. We rely on rental aircraft and the U.S. to get our troops and equipment to Afghanistan. That is not how a modern and self-sufficient military should operate.

7. Support Ships - Our Preserve Class AORs (HMCS Protecteur and HMCS Preserve) are great ships, but they're old. Furthermore they don't offer anything in the way of troop lift capability. Canada needs the ability to refueling our Naval Task Groups at sea, and at the same time ships men and equipment around the globe. These ships were suppose to be in operation by the Fall of 2006. The hulls haven't even been laid yet. We're waiting Mr. Prime Minister.

So there you have it. Just a few things off the top of my head that the Government needs to get the ball rolling on. But what do I know right?
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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how to prosper in the new Canadian Military

1) find out what O'Conner was pitching
2) get ahold of the manual
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
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Yeah the Conservatives are better, but as you said Jersay, not by much. To me it's just the typical Governmental response to the Canadian Forces. Manpower. The fail to look at the big picture, if they did they'd realize they can't even fully equip the troops they've got, why bother bringing in more?
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
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Out of curiosity, are you entitled in B.C. to be issued ICE equipment? I know in Alberta all the reservists are stuck with IECS unless they go overseas or are attach-posted to a Reg Force unit.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Once upon a time, Canada was a middle power which carried even moreso political clout. Today, Canada has no political clout, because it doesn't have a military to speak of. I do not necessarily agree with this logic, that's just the way the world works.

When you are involved (and I don't mean Iraq necessarily), your voice is heard, when you're uninvolved, you're ignored.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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When you get involved in the right operation you are heard. Afghanistan for example.

If you go to all operations that a friend asks of you, you become someone's enemy.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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I'm not too sure. It has some, but that is like 1/100 of what it had after WWII when we had a million man army and one of the best armies, navies, and airforce.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
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Edmonton
ITN is right. Our global respect died in the 70's when the military was dismantled. In the 50's and 60's we were respected because we could back up what we believed in.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Independent Palestine
You might be right, I am just not to sure. The military is a big important voice, its huge on the political scene. But there are also other voices as well.

I do agree that our voice now is 100 times smaller than it was in the 1950s, 1960s, and the 1970s. Maybe even 1000 times smaller.