Canada Border Services Agency misses deadline to hand over ArriveCan invoices, declines to identify subcontractors

Jinentonix

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Sep 6, 2015
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It's not just on Liberal Premiers/Governments of provinces.
Never said it was. In fact I'm pretty sure I put at least some of the blame on the Fed. Nor can I speak about the health care in any other province because I haven't experienced it outside of Ontario in 40 years.
Health care has been going to the shitter for YEARS, and that's on EVERY party elected in, say, the last 30 for not doing SFA to fix it. Here in NB, both Libs and Cons were told how bad it was going to be, and they did nothing, they even fought against fixing the problems.
For 15 years the Ontario Liberals pissed away billions on not getting E-health online, gas plant scandals, useless windmills and teachers they didn't even have jobs for yet. All while spending little more than lip service on the health care system.
As for every party for, say, the last 30 years doing SFA to fix it, the Harper govt increased health care funding along with annual increases through 2014. In 2014 the amount of the annual increase was reduced, but it's a bit of a stretch to actually call that a cut.
The problem is Trudeau keeps reducing it. He was reducing it during the pandemic even ffs. Today, federal spending is even less than it was pre-pandemic. But this govt really, really cares sooo much about the public health.

Stop and think for a moment. MAID is going to be expanded. I bet it's cheaper to kill citizens than it is to fund their health care.

So all of it can't be put on the Libs alone.
In Ontario, yes it fucking can.
That said, I absolutely agree that if the Feds refuse to be accountable for spending, we shouldn't have to keep throwing our hard worked for cash to them to waste.
You say "shouldn't" almost like you need permission to tell them to get stuffed. Here's the thing. Democracy means absolutely nothing without accountability. I mean for 7 years now every time McGroper or one of his flunkies are asked a tough, real question, they whip out their very well prepared, eloquent way of telling us to go fuck ourselves.

It's called the "mushroom treatment", where you keep people in the dark and feed 'em nothing but bullshit. And when you have parties colluding to do end-runs around democracy added to that, like the LibDips, then democracy is in real trouble.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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Never said it was. In fact I'm pretty sure I put at least some of the blame on the Fed. Nor can I speak about the health care in any other province because I haven't experienced it outside of Ontario in 40 years.

You may not have experienced it outside of Ontario, but it's not like the information isn't out there either, Jin. For myself, since I live only 15 minutes from Nova Scotia, I can unequivocally say health care is a shit show no matter what province you're in.

For 15 years the Ontario Liberals pissed away billions on not getting E-health online, gas plant scandals, useless windmills and teachers they didn't even have jobs for yet. All while spending little more than lip service on the health care system.

For the past 15 years, NB has had two Liberals and two Cons in power. Neither party has done SFA for health care despite warnings for over 30 years from nurses and doctors this disaster was coming.

As for every party for, say, the last 30 years doing SFA to fix it, the Harper govt increased health care funding along with annual increases through 2014. In 2014 the amount of the annual increase was reduced, but it's a bit of a stretch to actually call that a cut.

Well, see above; Harper may have sent more cash to the provinces, but that doesn't mean the provinces did their jobs with that cash.

The problem is Trudeau keeps reducing it.

I know, that's why he's not helping the situation either.

He was reducing it during the pandemic even ffs. Today, federal spending is even less than it was pre-pandemic. But this govt really, really cares sooo much about the public health.

Again, true, but even though the Feds shove cash to the provinces, it's up to the provinces to do the job, NOT Trudeau, Harper, or any other PM. So to blame Trudeau solely for this problem isn't exactly a valid excuse.

Stop and think for a moment. MAID is going to be expanded. I bet it's cheaper to kill citizens than it is to fund their health care.

I support MAID because if a person wishes to end their life, that is THEIR choice, especially if their medical condition is terminal.

In Ontario, yes it fucking can.

Really? So Ford has done everything positive for health care? Harris? I'm not saying the Libs didn't screw things over (they were in power more than the Cons, at least in Ontario), I don't absolve them of any guilt, but the Cons are just as culpable, even in Ontario, of the health crisis going on right now. Or did you not want to include Mike Harris's closing of hospitals, health "restructuring" and thinking that taking 1 Billion away from education was not helpful either, since it's Government that funds the seats available for nursing schools.

You say "shouldn't" almost like you need permission to tell them to get stuffed.

Considering we tell them every day at some point to get stuffed, pretty sure I, nor anyone else, needs permission.

Here's the thing. Democracy means absolutely nothing without accountability. I mean for 7 years now every time McGroper or one of his flunkies are asked a tough, real question, they whip out their very well prepared, eloquent way of telling us to go fuck ourselves.

I agree with you, absolutely.

It's called the "mushroom treatment", where you keep people in the dark and feed 'em nothing but bullshit. And when you have parties colluding to do end-runs around democracy added to that, like the LibDips, then democracy is in real trouble.

Look, Jin, I know you can't stop beating the "Libs are evil!" dead horse, but if you can't even admit that the Cons are JUST as culpable to the crisis in health care as the Libs, then honestly, I don't know what to say. Again, maybe read up on how things are outside of Ontario, look at who has been in charge in the past 15 to 30 years and then maybe come discuss how to actually solve the issue instead of just blaming one party and that's it.
 

Jinentonix

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I support MAID because if a person wishes to end their life, that is THEIR choice, especially if their medical condition is terminal.
I support MAID as well. except for using on the mentally ill, homeless or destitute, suggesting it to veterans etc.
Really? So Ford has done everything positive for health care? Harris? I'm not saying the Libs didn't screw things over (they were in power more than the Cons, at least in Ontario), I don't absolve them of any guilt, but the Cons are just as culpable, even in Ontario, of the health crisis going on right now. Or did you not want to include Mike Harris's closing of hospitals, health "restructuring" and thinking that taking 1 Billion away from education was not helpful either, since it's Government that funds the seats available for nursing schools.
Oh I was SO hoping you'd mention Harris. One place I used to live had 4 hospitals for a population of less than 200,000. None of them were even operating at 50% capacity. Harris shut down the smallest of the 4 hospitals and nobody lost their job as they were sent to work at the 3 remaining hospitals. The town I was living in at the time only had 1 hospital. Harris not only increased its funding he also provided them a slush fund, which the Liberals took away after they got elected. Why did they take it away? Because the town voted Conservative. That's the only reason. The media also likes to play fast and loose with their partisan hackery. Right now we got leftist retards, including in the news media, screaming about privatization of our health care system in Ontario. Of course the only reason they're screaming about it is because Ford is a Conservative. Ignoring the fact that Ontario at least, has had a private-public system for fucking decades. Anything done outside of a hospital setting is done in what is most likely a private clinic or facility. Even those abortions the leftards insist is a right? You guessed it, the abortion clinics that exist in Ontario are ALL private enterprises.

As for Harris "taking $1 billion away from education", he didn't. He SAVED $1 billion by closing down nearly empty schools. Again, where I used to live there were 6 elementary schools within a half mile radius of my house; 3 Catholic schools one of which was a French school, 2 public schools and a middle school/junior high. The French school was only school that went from K-Gr8. The middle school/junior high was just grades 7 & 8 while the rest of the schools were K-Gr6 and just like the hospitals in that city, they operated at less than half capacity. Harris kept the French school open, shut down one of the Catholic schools and one of the public schools and the middle school. Then he had the remaining two schools expanded to include grades 7 & 8. And I mean real expansions, not just adding some shitty portables. As for Ford? Sure, blame the guy who ended up inheriting a bloated deficit from the Liberals while dealing with a Liberal Fed govt who refuses to restore the FULL health care transfers to the provinces. Seems like a legit complaint.
Considering we tell them every day at some point to get stuffed, pretty sure I, nor anyone else, needs permission.
Words are meaningless. Actions have weight to them.
I agree with you, absolutely.



Look, Jin, I know you can't stop beating the "Libs are evil!" dead horse, but if you can't even admit that the Cons are JUST as culpable to the crisis in health care as the Libs, then honestly, I don't know what to say. Again, maybe read up on how things are outside of Ontario, look at who has been in charge in the past 15 to 30 years and then maybe come discuss how to actually solve the issue instead of just blaming one party and that's it.
Look Serryah, The Ontario and Federal Liberals are NOT Liberals. They are rather farther left than mere Liberals. But yeah, when an entire nation's health care system is collapsing, clearly the blame falls on every Premier in the country. They're all colluding with each other man. Again, what kind of federal govt continually decreases health care funding throughout a fucking pandemic and then whines about how they aren't going throw any more money into a broken system they helped to break.

You want solutions? Fine I have one. Every single politician in the country can only access the same health care system they're willing to provide the taxpayer. I'm sure a few politicians waiting 15-20 hours just to see someone in the emerg would see a change in their attitudes. But of course that won't happen if everyone just complacently sits on their ass and whines about it on-line. We're acting like we're powerless when the fact is we are the power. And it's time for the scumbags running shit to learn that.
 
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Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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I support MAID as well. except for using on the mentally ill, homeless or destitute, suggesting it to veterans etc.

Well, per the actual law:


In order to be eligible for medical assistance in dying, you must meet all of the following criteria. You must:


  • be eligible for health services funded by the federal government, or a province or territory (or during the applicable minimum period of residence or waiting period for eligibility)
    • generally, visitors to Canada are not eligible for medical assistance in dying
  • be at least 18 years old and mentally competent. This means being capable of making health care decisions for yourself.
  • have a grievous and irremediable medical condition
  • make a voluntary request for MAID that is not the result of outside pressure or influence
  • give informed consent to receive MAID

    So that'd discount anyone 'mentally ill', suggestions to veterans, homeless and destitute.

Oh I was SO hoping you'd mention Harris.

Well, you're welcome?

One place I used to live had 4 hospitals for a population of less than 200,000. None of them were even operating at 50% capacity. Harris shut down the smallest of the 4 hospitals and nobody lost their job as they were sent to work at the 3 remaining hospitals.

TBH, smart move if that's the case.

The town I was living in at the time only had 1 hospital. Harris not only increased its funding he also provided them a slush fund, which the Liberals took away after they got elected.

Fuck the libs then.

Why did they take it away? Because the town voted Conservative. That's the only reason.

Yeah, that could be, but not going to buy it completely.

The media also likes to play fast and loose with their partisan hackery. Right now we got leftist retards, including in the news media, screaming about privatization of our health care system in Ontario.

And... this is where I'm going to pass and ignore any comments cause I'm not interested in playing the game of "only the Libs" that you tend to do.

Of course the only reason they're screaming about it is because Ford is a Conservative. Ignoring the fact that Ontario at least, has had a private-public system for fucking decades.

AKA two tiered; I've no issue with it so long as it doesn't interfere in basic care for everyone.

Anything done outside of a hospital setting is done in what is most likely a private clinic or facility. Even those abortions the leftards insist is a right? You guessed it, the abortion clinics that exist in Ontario are ALL private enterprises.

Great for Ontario - NB doesn't have that anymore.

As for Harris "taking $1 billion away from education", he didn't.

Well not from what I saw but, okay, I'll go with that.

He SAVED $1 billion by closing down nearly empty schools. Again, where I used to live there were 6 elementary schools within a half mile radius of my house; 3 Catholic schools one of which was a French school, 2 public schools and a middle school/junior high. The French school was only school that went from K-Gr8. The middle school/junior high was just grades 7 & 8 while the rest of the schools were K-Gr6 and just like the hospitals in that city, they operated at less than half capacity. Harris kept the French school open, shut down one of the Catholic schools and one of the public schools and the middle school. Then he had the remaining two schools expanded to include grades 7 & 8. And I mean real expansions, not just adding some shitty portables.

Great, so he brought things together to streamline, basically?

So why not spend that saved cash into paying for seats for nurses during his time as Premier? Because THAT is my point; not enough money has been spent, until recently, for increases in seats to train the replacements for the nurses who have been screaming for years that "We're all going to retire soon and you won't have enough staff to cover when we do!"

So that falls squarely on his shoulders.

As for Ford? Sure, blame the guy who ended up inheriting a bloated deficit from the Liberals while dealing with a Liberal Fed govt who refuses to restore the FULL health care transfers to the provinces. Seems like a legit complaint.

More "Blame the Lbis". Pass.

Words are meaningless. Actions have weight to them.

Yeah, agreed. And in my experience, the actions of the premiers (maybe the Great Center of The Universe doesn't have this issue) is that they don't care about Health Care.

Look Serryah, The Ontario and Federal Liberals are NOT Liberals.

They changed their name??

They are rather farther left than mere Liberals.

So the Libs are NDP?

Seriously though, I'm not sure ANY political party is who they're traditionally supposed to be anymore. Libs aren't libs, Cons aren't cons (just as Libs are "farther left", so the Cons are "farther right").

But the status of the parties isn't the point of this...

But yeah, when an entire nation's health care system is collapsing, clearly the blame falls on every Premier in the country.

For their part in the collapse, it absolutely does, regardless of party.

They're all colluding with each other man.

Maybe; they like to meet a lot, and say a lot, but do nothing. For example, the Health Care Summit last year; lots of words said, so far, absolutely bupkis done, at least in my province.

Again, what kind of federal govt continually decreases health care funding throughout a fucking pandemic and then whines about how they aren't going throw any more money into a broken system they helped to break.

A disgusting one. You seem to think I'm siding with the Feds here. I'm not. I've repeatedly called them out/agreed with you on how shit they've been. The DIFFERENCE is that I also put blame on the Premiers, where it also belongs.

(Also, the feds not increasing funding for health care is false, according to CIHI: https://globalnews.ca/news/8349058/canada-health-care-costs-cihi/



“COVID-19 resulted in the single biggest increase in health spending we have ever seen in this country,” said CIHI president David O’Toole in a news release."

So... decrease? Where was the decrease?)

What kind of provincial government doesn't TAKE the money the Feds are sending out that is meant for the workers in said pandemic, because they don't believe they need it (we did), and for when they DO eventually take money allotted, they don't USE it, rather they keep it to say "HEY, we've a SURPLUS!" for their budget, which translates to nothing for the people or sectors (health care, education which is another area our Premier doesn't give one sweet fuck for) who, again, need it?

You want solutions? Fine I have one.

Okay, great!

Every single politician in the country can only access the same health care system they're willing to provide the taxpayer.

I can live with that.

I'm sure a few politicians waiting 15-20 hours just to see someone in the emerg would see a change in their attitudes.

Oh absolutely; I know last year there were MANY of us health care people hoping Higgs or any of his family would end up having to go to an overwhelmed Emerg, or have to be offload delayed in an Ambulance, so they'd "get it". Lots of us were even praying for it, tbh. The other night, the biggest hospital in the "Zone" I'm in had a 24+ hour wait time. Not for the first time either. And our little hospital had an actual offload delay for an ambulance; that's NEVER happened before...

But of course that won't happen if everyone just complacently sits on their ass and whines about it on-line.

Thankfully I don't "just" sit on my ass and whine about it online, but then, the subject is obviously serious/important since it is my career.

We're acting like we're powerless when the fact is we are the power. And it's time for the scumbags running shit to learn that.

Absolutely true.

...

That's it? That's the only idea you have? So, you don't even MENTION the obvious ones, just focus on "GIT THEM POLITICIANS! (specifically dem damned Fed'rul Libtards!)"?

Opportunity knocked, Jin, and you told it to fuck off and slammed the door in its face...
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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If we want to actually discuss how to make health care viable in Canada, we need to talk seriously about it and ID where the issues are outside of the PM or Premiers (even if they're a big cause of the problems)

First one I'd suggest, to anyone? Open more seats for nursing Canada wide.

Second - streamline/reduce the fuckery with people trained outside of Canada - nurse or doctor - to get licensed here in Canada. I mean, FFS, even if you train in the US it's a shitshow to come back into Canada to work and that's from a doc in our emerg who did just that.

Third - and this is NB specific - change the rules about French. There just is NOT enough adults of working age and ability who can pass the French demanded by the Corporation (Horizon). Why? One reason is because NB French is NOT the same as the French that's used for the testing orally. It's Parisian. I know of people who are French that couldn't understand the person on the other end of the phone, and visa versa. As for English speakers with little to no French, more needs to be done to help us get the French that they're requiring.

There's LOTS more I could say but three is a start at least for a conversation - a real one about the issue and not just blaming Da Feds - isn't it?
As an aside, having a premier who actually DOES give a shit about your province helps. Our current one does NOT so maybe in that, you're lucky, Jin. Your leader is for Ontario; my Con leader doesn't give one sweet fuck about NB at all and there are enough stupid people who voted him back in last election that we're stuck with him.
 

Taxslave2

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Aug 13, 2022
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law:


In order to be eligible for medical assistance in dying, you must meet all of the following criteria. You must:


  • be eligible for health services funded by the federal government, or a province or territory (or during the applicable minimum period of residence or waiting period for eligibility)
    • generally, visitors to Canada are not eligible for medical assistance in dying
  • be at least 18 years old and mentally competent. This means being capable of making health care decisions for yourself.
  • have a grievous and irremediable medical condition
  • make a voluntary request for MAID that is not the result of outside pressure or influence
  • give informed consent to receive MAID

    So that'd discount anyone 'mentally ill', suggestions to veterans, homeless and destitute
Currently. Doesn’t mean it can’t be changed when the liberals want to get rid of a bunch of vets that are costing too much to look after.
 

Taxslave2

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If we want to actually discuss how to make health care viable in Canada, we need to talk seriously about it and ID where the issues are outside of the PM or Premiers (even if they're a big cause of the problems)

First one I'd suggest, to anyone? Open more seats for nursing Canada wide.

Second - streamline/reduce the fuckery with people trained outside of Canada - nurse or doctor - to get licensed here in Canada. I mean, FFS, even if you train in the US it's a shitshow to come back into Canada to work and that's from a doc in our emerg who did just that.

Third - and this is NB specific - change the rules about French. There just is NOT enough adults of working age and ability who can pass the French demanded by the Corporation (Horizon). Why? One reason is because NB French is NOT the same as the French that's used for the testing orally. It's Parisian. I know of people who are French that couldn't understand the person on the other end of the phone, and visa versa. As for English speakers with little to no French, more needs to be done to help us get the French that they're requiring.

There's LOTS more I could say but three is a start at least for a conversation - a real one about the issue and not just blaming Da Feds - isn't it?
As an aside, having a premier who actually DOES give a shit about your province helps. Our current one does NOT so maybe in that, you're lucky, Jin. Your leader is for Ontario; my Con leader doesn't give one sweet fuck about NB at all and there are enough stupid people who voted him back in last election that we're stuck with him.
That could be fixed simply by dropping the French requirements. Same goes for a lot of other rules that limit entry into the field.
 
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Serryah

Executive Branch Member
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That could be fixed simply by dropping the French requirements. Same goes for a lot of other rules that limit entry into the field.

Yes, you'd think it'd be that simple, except, no, as NB is the only officially Bilingual province and, well... that won't happen.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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The best way to get healthcare back on track is simple. Start at the bottom. Motivate healthier lifestyles amongst the population.
 
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pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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Yup
Yes, you'd think it'd be that simple, except, no, as NB is the only officially Bilingual province and, well... that won't happen.
How much does the bilingual cost your medical system ?
 

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
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It is amazing how many rules we have that make our lives worse instead of better. It is like the whole system is set up to employ party hacks whose only other job qualification is welfare reciopient.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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It is amazing how many rules we have that make our lives worse instead of better. It is like the whole system is set up to employ party hacks whose only other job qualification is welfare reciopient.
Come now they have a four year degree in political sciences , where they learn to speak eloquently without saying anything .
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Of course every time they provide more bean counters and diversity managers but some how never hire more front end staff . Funny how much cash the bean counters eat .
A high-ranking public servant told MPs Tuesday that Minh Doan, the chief technology officer for the federal government, recently lied to them at committee when he testified that he didn’t know who selected GCStrategies to build the ArriveCan app.

Cameron MacDonald, an assistant deputy minister at Health Canada, provided at times emotional testimony Tuesday to the government operations committee, which is holding hearings into how the cost of the app for international travellers grew to exceed $54-million during the pandemic.

He described heated discussions that took place in October, 2022, with Mr. Doan, the Canada Border Services Agency’s then vice-president and chief information officer. Mr. MacDonald had been a director-general at the agency during the early days of the ArriveCan app and Mr. Doan was his former superior.

Mr. Doan has since been promoted to chief technology officer for the federal government as a whole.

The committee also heard Tuesday from former CBSA official Antonio Utano, who is now a director-general at the Canada Revenue Agency.
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
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A high-ranking public servant told MPs Tuesday that Minh Doan, the chief technology officer for the federal government, recently lied to them at committee when he testified that he didn’t know who selected GCStrategies to build the ArriveCan app.

Cameron MacDonald, an assistant deputy minister at Health Canada, provided at times emotional testimony Tuesday to the government operations committee, which is holding hearings into how the cost of the app for international travellers grew to exceed $54-million during the pandemic.

He described heated discussions that took place in October, 2022, with Mr. Doan, the Canada Border Services Agency’s then vice-president and chief information officer. Mr. MacDonald had been a director-general at the agency during the early days of the ArriveCan app and Mr. Doan was his former superior.

Mr. Doan has since been promoted to chief technology officer for the federal government as a whole.

The committee also heard Tuesday from former CBSA official Antonio Utano, who is now a director-general at the Canada Revenue Agency.
Apparently in the Federal Government, rather than fire people for ineptness, they promote them. Oh goody, I'm sure that'll work out just great!