Blame Canada (?).... US take on Candadian Gun Control

researchok

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Jun 12, 2004
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Blame Canada
Our northern neighbors may try to cut gun freedoms here.

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/comment/lehrer200406291205.asp

By Eli Lehrer

Canada's two major parties — the long-ruling Liberals and the new Conservative Party of Canada — remained deadlocked after the polls closed last night. In all likelihood, that's bad news for gun ownership and public safety up north.

The Liberals, who have gone from a 168-seat majority in the 308-seat House of Commons to a plurality of about 135 seats, will almost certainly form a coalition with the socialist New Democratic Party (NDP) to rule Canada. The NDP peddles a watered-down form of socialism that's heavy on interest-group politics but moderate overall: The party has few major spending plans, and even proposes some tax cuts. But the NDP is dead set on taking away Canadians' guns and even reducing gun freedoms in the U.S. "We're proposing going across the border to the U.S. and actively engaging in lobbying to have gun-control laws in the U.S. strengthened," NDP leader Jack Layton explained at a May campaign rally in Winnipeg. And, given that the Liberals will almost certainly have to deal with him to join a government, more gun control — which imposes reasonably few monetary burdens — may well become reality.

It's an easy bone for Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin to throw to his coalition partners, but it's a bad idea. While Canada has banned most handgun ownership since 1977, Canadians remain even more likely to hunt and shoot than their American counterparts. The NDP wants none of this: It proposes taking away vaguely defined "assault weapons" (this likely refers to hunting weapons, since private ownership of machine guns is already illegal in Canada) and lobbying U.S. state and federal governments to take away their own citizens' guns.

In addition to being awfully arrogant, this plan is ironic, since more crime probably flows from Canada to the U.S. than vice versa: The nation has an overall crime rate half again higher than the United States'. Toronto, once the safest large city in North America, now has more muggings, car thefts, and violent assaults per capita than New York City. All of Canada's major provinces would rank among the 20 most dangerous American states. Since American crime rates peaked in the early 1990s, crime has fallen in 48 American states and over 80 percent of America's major cities. Meanwhile, it has risen in six of Canada's ten major providences and seven of its ten largest cities. The reasons for this divide are complex, but it's notable that the United States imprisons wrongdoers at about five times Canada's rate and has about a quarter more police on a per-capita basis. Canada, meanwhile, can boast only of a national gun-registration database that cost 1,000 times more than originally projected.

Indeed, international comparisons lend credence to the idea that Canada's existing gun controls aren't helping, and that more gun control will make things worse. Both the United Kingdom and Australia have seen crime soar after they imposed more severe versions of the gun-grabbing legislation the NDP faction in Canada's government will push. Both nations, much safer than the United States through the 1970s, are significantly more dangerous today.

Canadians, whose Charter of Rights and Freedoms contains no right to keep and bear arms and whose legal system offers little in the way of judicial review, will almost certainly have at least some of their guns taken away when their newly organized government gets down to business. So long as a Republican remains in the White House, Americans probably have little to fear from whatever lobbyists Ottawa might send to push for gun control in Washington. Even John Kerry — who may well run on the first Democratic platform in a generation that doesn't call for major new gun control laws — probably wouldn't be swayed. But, at the very least, those who support grabbing America's guns will have a powerful foreign champion in their corner.

Gun control has failed in Canada and everywhere else governments have tried to impose it. Canadians have reasonable concerns about crime, but their next government's likely gun-control plans won't help things.
 

researchok

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OHHHHHHHHH...suuuuuuuuuuure blame me...!

And WHO was it that suggested I post this thread???

Well??? WHO???
 

Haggis McBagpipe

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This is true.

Still, though, you're gonna kill me with stuff like that. My god, what are they thinking when they write stuff like that? I am gasping here as we speak. I may run amok at any minute. My eyes are bulging with disbelief and they're spinning in their sockets. Things are looking mighty grim.
 

researchok

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Haggis McBagpipe said:
This is true.

Still, though, you're gonna kill me with stuff like that. My god, what are they thinking when they write stuff like that? I am gasping here as we speak. I may run amok at any minute. My eyes are bulging with disbelief and they're spinning in their sockets. Things are looking mighty grim.

My concern is that they play a bit too loose and fancy free with the analysis.

You cannot sum up the Canadian experience in a few paragraphs.

Statistics and damn statistics, as they say.

None of which take into account the 'mindset' of Canadians.
 

peapod

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Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Canadians remain even more likely to hunt and shoot than their American counterparts.
Yes but we hunt critters not humans. I remember once going into a pawn shop in the states, what really struck me were the guns, especially the kind of guns, something you would never see in this country, and quite frankly I thank god for that, it was a house of horrors.
It would be pointless for any canadian to try and speak to americans on gun control the mindset is part of their breathing, just like most canadians my mindset rests in the fact that no one in this country should own assult weapons.
 

Numure

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Apr 30, 2004
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teehee.. The Bloc would support any new law on gun control, ristricting it even more. So if a law is proposed, and backed by the Liberals, expect it to pass ;)

I'm all for Gun control. I like to go hunting, every now and then. But I skip the hassle of buying a gun, and rent them near our hunting location. I also have a license. Quite easy to get might I add ;)
 

researchok

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Numure said:
I'm all for Gun control. I like to go hunting, every now and then. But I skip the hassle of buying a gun, and rent them near our hunting location. I also have a license. Quite easy to get might I add ;)

WOW-- you can RENT guns in Quebec??? And it's easy to get a license?!!
 

Numure

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researchok said:
Numure said:
I'm all for Gun control. I like to go hunting, every now and then. But I skip the hassle of buying a gun, and rent them near our hunting location. I also have a license. Quite easy to get might I add ;)

WOW-- you can RENT guns in Quebec??? And it's easy to get a license?!!
lol only for a few days. Hunting guns might I add... In Sorel. Relativly easy... you follow a few courses, pass an exam. And boom, you gfot your license. I'm sure theirs a back ground check. And theirs also a 5 month period with the course (this 5 years ago). You have to renew it every 2 years.
 

researchok

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I had NO idea!

No gun rentals here, thats for sure.

I do like the mandatory safety training and waiting periods.

We do have mandatory safety classes here, but they last a couple of hours, thats it.

There are background checks for handguns, but not for longarms.

The big loophole here is used guns. You can find them in the classifieds-- and the seller only has to take down buyers ID. Thats it.
 

Numure

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The course and license is for all weapons. Anything that isnt a hunting rifle, is next to impossible to find though. I even think they are illegal.
 

researchok

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LOL

Welcome to the wacky world of 'the right to bear arms', a US constitutional fundamental.

I think though, the culture of the 'old west' has a lot to do with it. Until relatively recently, (which includes migration to the city from the country) guns were de riguer, fro many reasons-- hunting mostly, but protection as well.

Je rire- this could be a LONG conversation!
 

Numure

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heh Without a doubt. I,m happy Canada didnt put it in the Charte, and that the Québec goverment didnt put it our charter as well. Saves us alot of problems.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
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researchok said:
LOL

Welcome to the wacky world of 'the right to bear arms', a US constitutional fundamental.

I actually do not think the 'right to bear arms' was ever intended to mean for every Joe Blow citizen to have a gun. Didn't it refer to the right to bear arms if an enemy invaded?
 

researchok

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No, actually it was enshrined to prevent govt from stepping on people at will-- to allow people to protect themselves from govt excesses.

A bit of trivia-- Lafayette floated the idea-- his experience in France insipred him-- that the King could too eaasily intimidate the people.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
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researchok said:
No, actually it was enshrined to prevent govt from stepping on people at will-- to allow people to protect themselves from govt excesses.

I wasn't sure! I just knew it wasn't quite as simple as 'let everybody have guns so they can go around blowing each other's brains out'. :cool: Although I could see myself supporting an open season on Republicans....