Australians Have it Right?

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
An Australian Citizen wrote:

"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.

However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We do not go to your home country and attempt to change your way of life, your customs or your heritage, you would not tolerate it. Please give us the same respect you demand from us.

Many of our men and women have fought and died in countries like yours to ensure that you were free to maintain your culture, your heritage and your way of life. Nothing was asked by us in return. You were free to leave that country and make Australia your new home. Any way you look at it they died for you and for your freedom and we, as Australians are proud of them.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society-LEARN THE LANGUAGE!

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"."
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
I really like the message of this article. My parents immigrated to Canada from India back in the 1960's. They wanted a better life, a chance at more opportunities and what not. They achieved these goals because they adapted.

My parents became fluent in English and even tried to learn a bit of French. The learned the Canadian way and lived a Canadian life.

Sure they retained the native language amongst themselves and among friends, sure they retained their own religion and spiritual beliefs, sure they retained their cooking and native dress for special occasion, but in the end they become Canadian.

They embraced the culture here and the cultures of other immigrants. They fly the Canadian flag proudly. They realize that they are the ones who chose to come here and that they should adapt to life here and not the other way around.

My parents weren't interested in creating an isolated piece of India inside of Canada. Toronto is a very diverse city and I love that about it, but there should be some adaptation. How can people live here for years and not learn English or French? To me that is just disrecptful to Canada, it shows that people aren't interested in adding to Canada, just using it.
 

Huck

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2006
393
0
16
The Universe
Interresting. IT is always a complex issue:


When does the freedom others impeed on your own. Allowing other cultures to thrive in another nation is good. But what is the critical point where it becomes invasive and must be reduced? must it be reduced or should we let the genetics algorithm go, naturally.


This can be seen in british columbia with the chinese. Its all fine to be tolerant and welcome others, but at which point does the chinese culture become too prominent and must be 'reverted' back to the 'native' english community. And again, do we have the right to impose what is our vision of what the culture should be? (this goes against evolution. with this view, nothing would evolve, but at the same time, losses can happen).

we can also think of the bill 101 in Quebec. Quebecers felt english was invading too much and restricted its appeal by forcing french in.

Its a difficult debate, because everyone wants freedom, but no one wants to disapear dur to dilution...
 

Durgan

Durgan
Oct 19, 2005
248
0
16
Brantford, ON
www.durgan.org
So true in every aspect.

I am tired of our media, and those in power Canada flopping around like a dog looking for affection. Huh!, huh! huh! I am thoroughly tired of the panting.

Canadians are losing so much respect that even the US soldiers cansider our people make good targets-with good reason. Give them a burst they are just Canadians is porobably the attitude.
Lets not sink any lower.

Durgan.
 

Huck

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2006
393
0
16
The Universe
DasFX, agreed.

I nerver liked how some cultures made 'small version of their countries in others' like chinatowns, etc. (no hate here, but i dont like isolasionism).

But then again, if we went to live in china, maybe we would stick with our english friends in proper neighborhoods.


Its a tough question to answer...


perhaps the world is tending to a median of all cultures, where the most populous ones will have the most influence. But, will people allow this to happen??? (i.e., the french refused to give in to english.) When we get the sensation of losing something, our automatic reaction is to fight it. assimilation has never been easy due to all this.
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
Huck said:
When does the freedom others impeed on your own. Allowing other cultures to thrive in another nation is good. But what is the critical point where it becomes invasive and must be reduced? must it be reduced or should we let the genetics algorithm go, naturally.

Personally, I think it isn't much a matter of different food, dress, customs and what not. It is language.

If people from one culture, say Chinese come here and never learn English, how really can they add to Canada? Sure, they can add financially, but if you cannot speak the common language, then you can't share ideas, educate others and be a good citizen to all Canadians.

I think learning of Enlgish and French should be tied more to immigration. Being able to communicate with one another is the key to having a diverse community function.

They should only allow English and French speakers here, or they should tie citizenship to proficientcy in either language. There is no good reason why one shouldn't know one of the official languages.
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
Huck said:
But then again, if we went to live in china, maybe we would stick with our english friends in proper neighborhoods.
Its a tough question to answer...

Most likely we would stick to each other and I have nothing wrong with that, but if I were planing on living in China longterm, I think I would learn Chinese and embrace the current culture. Do you think if I and other Canadians moved to China, they would suddenly change the way their country functions?

When in Rome....

I mean it is like travelling, if I go to another country, I don't expect to have a everything I have here.
 

Huck

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2006
393
0
16
The Universe
DasFX said:
Huck said:
But then again, if we went to live in china, maybe we would stick with our english friends in proper neighborhoods.
Its a tough question to answer...

Most likely we would stick to each other and I have nothing wrong with that, but if I were planing on living in China longterm, I think I would learn Chinese and embrace the current culture. Do you think if I and other Canadians moved to China, they would suddenly change the way their country functions?

When in Rome....

I mean it is like travelling, if I go to another country, I don't expect to have a everything I have here.


I agree 100%

but for example, there are many english in quebec, many who were born here who dont even speak french. Up to this day, i still dont understanmd how one can live all his life in quebec and never learn any french, it startles me.

When living somewhere, one should always adopt the local language, and maybe even the gross of the culture. but again, this is a complex issue, so there is more to it :)
 

JoeyB

Electoral Member
Feb 2, 2006
253
0
16
Australia
RE: Australians Have it R

I really don't know who DOES have it right...

I like the fact that I am proud to be Australian, in fact, I wll always be... I was born here. It doesn't mean I don't, won't, can't, or shouldn't respect others' rights, values or traditions. I had a Japanese girlfriend, which was very much an offensive thing to my grandparents' generation. (WW2) Like I said in my 'intro' I may be more tolerant than others of my nationality in regards to racial ideologies.

I think what many people outside Australia don't understand, is that immigration policy has suffered at the hands of the current government for some time, had been radically altered by the previous Labor government, was totally neglected by the fraser liberal government in the 70's, and before that there existed a 'white australia' policy, details of which I shall not bore you with.
What you are seeing now, is a desire to express patriotism in a way similar to revolutions in other countries... the difference is we don't use guns... and we couldn't be bothered anyway, because we all hate politicians. Thats australia for you. Trying once again to bring a redneck uneducated opinion into a politically correct climate, where in reality neither belong. Political correctness is a load of codswallop, and redneck uneducated opinions differ in description by not more than a split hair.

A lot of what this anonymous author says is very true in sentiment among naturalized australians, and those born here. We have an identity we wish to preserve, and that is primarily the point being made.
The target audience is the secular foreign nationalist / religious groups that exist in capital cities,( because they don't exist in the regional areas, assimilation reigns supreme there. you either fit in, or fuck off, and that goes for aussie born city slickers too. the country is a great leveller).
Skin colour isn't an issue, but may be used for describing someone, in a non-racial intent. if for example irish mick calls munjipila 'black as the ace of spades' munjipila knows mick's envious of his sensational suntan, NOT the fact he's aboriginal, ...and he's not being called a 'black c---' (which incidentally is a racially motivated statement) more on that in a minute...

I think some people who come here are shocked by the way we talk about people of other demographics. the reality is aussies are blunt, to the point, mean no offence, unless you're called the "filthy C-word" and if you get the c-word, then you most likely are being one. Like I said. Blunt.
Judicious use of praise: never occurs, because there is none. Instead, your aussie mate will constantly remind you of all the f---ups you made on your way to achieving your goal, and laugh incessantly at this also. He will get you so blind drunk, you will forget your name for a month afterwards, and you will be reminded of all the stupid things you did under the influence. And everyone will laugh AT you, not with you... because in Aaustralia it's all about the ability to laugh at yourself. If you can't do that, I suggest you don't even think about coming here in the first instance.
Like I mentioned in my intro, respect for other nations and their culture is not only appreciated, it's necessary when not on home soil, regardless of the degree of permanence of your stay.

So I'm going to state categorically, Yes, Australia welcomes everyone, but you're only welcome here, if you show us the same respect you expect from others when in your home country. I'm pretty sure most people try to do that anyway.
 

Doryman

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
435
2
18
St. John's
I am unbelievably impressed that someone managed to voice this (MUCH NEEDED) opinion without being piggybacked by the White National groups ( which is a sure death to any idea) or being slaughtered by the Uber PC Apologists ( which crushes ideas just as quickly.)

I unequivocally agree with this persons mindset and statements. If Immigrants want to move to Canada, they should move to Canada. Not Litte Sudan or Saudi Arabia II. It's perfectly alright to live in neighbourhoods of similar people and preserve your culture ( hey, even Newfies in T.O and Calgary do this :lol: ) but it is ludicrous to expect that the country will change to accomodate you. Canada welcomes Saudi Arabians, but we do not welcome Sharia law. Canadian law has worked just fine, thank you.
 

Virtual Burlesque

Nominee Member
Feb 19, 2005
55
0
6
Ontario
DasFX said:
An Australian Citizen wrote:
"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.

Is Australian Citizen referring to the way British immigrants adapted to the Aboriginal society when they entered Australia, or our forefathers adapted to North America's First Nations?

At least these latest waves of immigrants are, for the most part, changing the society through an enrichment of our cultural diversity, rather than through policies like Pacification By Force.



That's evolution for you, I suppose.
 

Huck

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2006
393
0
16
The Universe
Virtual Burlesque said:
DasFX said:
An Australian Citizen wrote:
"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.

Is Australian Citizen referring to the way British immigrants adapted to the Aboriginal society when they entered Australia, or our forefathers adapted to North America's First Nations?

At least these latest waves of immigrants are, for the most part, changing the society through an enrichment of our cultural diversity, rather than through policies like Pacification By Force.

That's evolution for you, I suppose.

True... 8O

we european descendents want everyone to respect us, be we respected no one that was here when we arrived. "Hey, this guy says im on his land, so il just give him smallpox..." :roll:

we are very "do as I say, not what i do"
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
DasFX said:
An Australian Citizen wrote:

"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.

However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We do not go to your home country and attempt to change your way of life, your customs or your heritage, you would not tolerate it. Please give us the same respect you demand from us.

Many of our men and women have fought and died in countries like yours to ensure that you were free to maintain your culture, your heritage and your way of life. Nothing was asked by us in return. You were free to leave that country and make Australia your new home. Any way you look at it they died for you and for your freedom and we, as Australians are proud of them.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society-LEARN THE LANGUAGE!

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"."

I coulden't agree more with this guy. Please don't tell me Australians have more balls then Canadians.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Canada has become nothing more than a "push-over" nation, that believes everyone loves us.....and we define our identity as "not American". Its come to the point where if a Christian say god bless Canada he is chastised, yet we protect Tamil Tigers and are not allowed to say anything about muslim extremists. We are more worried about a bunch of homosexuals getting married rather than protecting our arctic sovereignty. WHY?....we because military is bad and scary, its something for those evil Americans.....this was proven by the Liberal attack ads during the election. Our production is not where near where it should be, and Canada is no longer looked at as a power, no one cares what Canada thinks anymore! I am surprised we are still a G8 nation.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
yea and Australia actually had the balls to say no to Kyoto because they know a growing economy cannot live up to emissions regulations drawn up decades ago. But not Canada is more concerned with trying to look "not American" and be the little darling of the world....even if we were to do better under a MADE IN CANADA plan, the left wing idiots would still bitch and whine that we are becoming a Neo-Con country. WHAT HAPPEND TO THIS COUNTRY!!!
 

Alberta'sfinest

Electoral Member
Dec 9, 2005
217
0
16
RE: Australians Have it R

I have absolutely no problems with multiculturalism. The only thing I ask of immigrants is that they leave their country's problems in their country of origin. I dislike the people who bring their hatred and wars with them. It's like the dumbass Jews and Palistinians that started debating and then fighting at Concordia university in Montreal. It's stupid, and when I look at countries that can't make compromises, they are stupid too, and we should treat them with absolutely no respect and isolate them from benefitting from any foreign trade or business so they run out of means to fight. This doesn't always work do to the geographical locations of certain resources.

My dad's side is French, and we've been here since before confederation of Canada, and we were also in the US before independence. My moms side however were German refugees from Russia from Stalin's era. My Mom's parents were very mad that my mom married a Frenchman. But they got over it, and other immigrants need to do the same about their conflicts when they come here. You'd think that Jews and Palestinians here in Canada would unite on the basis that they both left to escape the violence, and would work together to push for peace in their homelands, but instead they've brought their hate with them, and I think those that are like this should leave.

To solve this problem, we could simply make it law that your family has to live here for 1 full generation before they are allowed to become citizen's. Basically, your grand kids could become Canadians, but you can't. The reason I suggest this is because this is how long it takes to drive out the hate from a culture, and anyone who harbours hate based on nationality or religion, isn't a Canadian. This would give us 25-40 years to deport them for any uncanadian behaviour such a hate mongering.

To me, being Canadian is about excepting others choices and cultures, or at the very minimum, tolerating the choices and cultures of others. The only exemption to this would be when it comes to obvious things like murder, stealing, hate crimes, etc...

I picked out a few sentences from the original post I thought I should comment on.

"This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity."
What national identity? Austalia and Canada are merely diluted spin-off commenwealths of the British empire. We began our countries and think their great because of how we diluted the values of the people who founded our countries.

"As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."
... that was developed and molded my the immigrants who settled Austrailia.

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom."
The same struggle that new immigrants from more oppressive countries face in finding their place in a free society.

"We do not go to your home country and attempt to change your way of life, your customs or your heritage, you would not tolerate it. Please give us the same respect you demand from us."
Actually, this is exactly what Canada, the US, and Austrailia did to the natural inhabitants of our continents to form our countries to begin with. That's damned hypocritical.

This type of person and thinking is nothing more than an exuse to justify hate and inequality on the basis of conflicting values, which none of our countries were founded on. I read of a book written by a similar type of person, who believed that immigrants were causing the hardship in his country, when it was just poor economic policy, and a harsh punishment from the international community. The book was "mein kampf" by Adolf Hitler. This type of thinking is called fascism. Hitler propagated this thinking in a way just like the original post to create an exeptable reason to alienate, hate, and kill minorities within his own country. This is why I don't celebrate rememberance day, because we only won a battle against extreme fascism, not the war. If we had won the war, this type of thinking would have been stopped, but in reality we were perpetuating our own nationlism to stop the Nazis, which tells me that we didn't disagree, only that we wanted it to be our nationalism that would win, and it did. Now the western world is starting to propagate this kind of thinking once again, which leads me to believe that the plans for another war for world domination is in the works, this is why there is such a wave of fascism within our countries. I know this because people who meet other people from other cultures, and learn about those cultures, don't have natural fascist ideas. This type of thinking is perpetuated by a few bad people, who own the means for making their views public opinion. It always starts from one source, the media.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
"we could simply make it law that your family has to live here for 1 full generation before they are allowed to become citizen's."

possible. it has also been suggested that full citizenship only comes to those born in canada. the problem though is the inherent conflict of such proposals with the historical identity of a land founded by immigrants.

"WHAT HAPPEND TO THIS COUNTRY!!!"
Nothing. It is the same as it has always been, adjusted for world progress.

A military does not make a country.

Kyoto: the world must work to gether to deal with global issues. Anybody that promotes a "i will work in my sandbox, you work in yours" is being ignorant to the issues and the steps necessary to correct them.

Gays and Christians, Tamil Tigers and terrorists: the root issue is humanity. Canadians want tolorance and respect for all as equals. Now those that are in a position of privilage out of history naturally see the balancing of peoples as an infringement on them since they are now percieving a loss of their own "special status". We are all the same so any laws/mores that counter that need to be removed and Canadians recognize that. The Tigers have committed far less bloodshed than christians, but then again justification lies in perspective.

Power: Canada never was a power! We are a miniscule population spread over a vast territory. Our reputation must be build upon strengths reflective of this. We will have more respect for being a small armed nation that works for peaceful solutions than as a rediculously armed nation (for our size) pretending to throw some military might around. Sadly, man still has not evolved much beyond walking upright and this is reflective in the attitudes of those calling for more weapons rather than less.

Do Australians have it right?
NO. Canada and Australia are lands of immigrants. These immigrants that are part of the ongoing development of the cultures. All we are really seeing is a whining from the intolorant who see "their culture" changing or being marginalized. Canada is adapting and growing. Its people need to do the same.