All-white sororities at Ala. Univ. draw attention

Tecumsehsbones

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The Associated Press

TUSCALOOSA, Ala. (AP) -- Several prominent leaders in Alabama weighed in Friday on allegations that all-white sororities passed over two prospective black members because of pressure from alumnae, and in one case, an adviser.

Paul Bryant Jr., the president pro tem of the board of trustees and the son of legendary football coach Paul "Bear" Bryant, said the school does not support the segregation of any organization. Gov. Robert Bentley, an alumnus, reiterated that fraternal organizations should choose members based on their qualifications, not race.

The student newspaper, The Crimson-White, first reported the allegations this week. The story quoted at least one named sorority member and several other anonymous ones saying they wanted to invite the two black students to join, but were overridden.

One of the board's trustees, former Alabama Supreme Court Justice John England Jr., confirmed his stepgranddaughter was one of the black students passed over during recruitment in August.

England said he was encouraged to see sorority members speaking out about what happened, but said he thought his ties to the university contributed to the attention the allegations are getting. One of England's sons, Democratic state Rep. Chris England, of Tuscaloosa, is the student's stepfather.

England, now a circuit judge in Tuscaloosa, said the discussion differs from the university's segregationist past because of the willingness of sorority members to speak openly.

"We won't allow organizations to deny admission to individuals because of their race. We just won't permit that. Saying that is important," England said.

University President Judy Bonner said the administration was working with sorority chapters and their national organizations to remove any barriers. "We are going to help our young people do the right thing," she said.

Bentley said Thursday he talked had spoken with his wife, Dianne, who was a member of Delta Delta Delta sorority at Alabama, one of four mentioned in the school newspaper article.

"She said it's not the students, but the alumni," the governor said.

The issue coincides with the university marking the 50th anniversary of its integration of Gov. George C. Wallace's unsuccessful stand in the schoolhouse door to try to keep out two black students in 1963.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson also noted it comes as the school's football team is ranked No. 1 nationally. Bear Bryant integrated Alabama's football team in 1971.

"Alabama wouldn't be No. 1 if it hadn't opened the door," the civil rights leader said. "The same door that opened for football players should open for young women."


http://www.wtop.com/209/3451904/All-white-sororities-at-Ala-Univ-draw-attention

Exactly, Jesse. And it should be done the same way as the football team. Voluntarily, and by the people involved.

They're sororities. There is no meaningful social or economic status they have to grant or withhold. This is like trying to integrate the WAR.
 

PoliticalNick

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My problem with this is it seems to be absolutely fine to have an all black or all hispanic (pick any minority) sorority, frat, club, or whatever which is just as discriminatory yet is basically encouraged.
 

Spade

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At real universities, fraternities and sororities are forbidden because of their inherent elitist, non-egalitarian, exclusive and discriminatory nature.
 

gerryh

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At real universities, fraternities and sororities are forbidden because of their inherent elitist, non-egalitarian, exclusive and discriminatory nature.


and which Universities would that be?
 

gerryh

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Do the research, Gerry. I feel too kind-hearted today to entertain petty quarrels.


Then I will ask this another way. Define a "real" University.

UBC, University of Alberta, University of Calgary, Dalhousie University, Yale, Texas A&M.... All Have Frats.... they are not REAL Universities?
 

hunboldt

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Then I will ask this another way. Define a "real" University.

UBC, University of Alberta, University of Calgary, Dalhousie University, Yale, Texas A&M.... All Have Frats.... they are not REAL Universities?

TRUMP - U
Trump's 'University' Accused Of Scamming Customers

I'd say more, but he would sue me for gazillions...
 

Spade

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My dearest Gerry,
The word University derives from the Latin Universitas which means "the whole." As such, a university should foster the whole- community, a community of learners. The emphasis is on inclusivity not exclusivity. Fraternities and sororities are exclusive by nature. A quick search would have told you that many universities, based on that philosophical premise, have banned these organizations from their campuses. On the Prairies, the University of Saskatchewan and the University of Regina were two such institutions. However, in 2012, students successfully lobbied for change in that policy.

To Greek, or not to Greek: our university needs frats and sororities - The Sheaf
In arguing the merits of sororities and fraternities, arguments included: "With all the good that comes from Greek life, there is still lingering criticism. Too many people still assume fraternities and sororities are about pretentious young adults drinking to excess and slacking through school. This is simply untrue."

Subsequently, University of Saskatchewan OMEGA XI Fraternity Pubcrawl on March 30th | College Fresh Music
 

Tecumsehsbones

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My problem with this is it seems to be absolutely fine to have an all black or all hispanic (pick any minority) sorority, frat, club, or whatever which is just as discriminatory yet is basically encouraged.
Actually, it's not. There are, to the best of my knowledge, no organisations in the U.S. that limit their membership by race. There are many historically black organisations, which were founded because at the time their white equivalents excluded blacks. Such organisations accept applications from everyone, they just don't typically get a lot of applications from non-blacks.

My dearest Gerry,
The word University derives from the Latin Universitas which means "the whole." As such, a university should foster the whole- community, a community of learners. The emphasis is on inclusivity not exclusivity. Fraternities and sororities are exclusive by nature. A quick search would have told you that many universities, based on that philosophical premise, have banned these organizations from their campuses. On the Prairies, the University of Saskatchewan and the University of Regina were two such institutions. However, in 2012, students successfully lobbied for change in that policy.

To Greek, or not to Greek: our university needs frats and sororities - The Sheaf
In arguing the merits of sororities and fraternities, arguments included: "With all the good that comes from Greek life, there is still lingering criticism. Too many people still assume fraternities and sororities are about pretentious young adults drinking to excess and slacking through school. This is simply untrue."

Subsequently, University of Saskatchewan OMEGA XI Fraternity Pubcrawl on March 30th | College Fresh Music

Well, if a university is to be "whole," does that not also mean they must include the elitist and exclusive?
 

Spade

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Actually, it's not. There are, to the best of my knowledge, no organisations in the U.S. that limit their membership by race. There are many historically black organisations, which were founded because at the time their white equivalents excluded blacks. Such organisations accept applications from everyone, they just don't typically get a lot of applications from non-blacks.



Well, if a university is to be "whole," does that not also mean they must include the elitist and exclusive?

As long as those elites and other xenophobes (I am being charitable) do not impose their will on university policy to exclude students on bases other than academic effort or achievement.
For instance, I am over thirty. Should age exclude applicants to programmes?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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As long as those elites and other xenophobes (I am being charitable) do not impose their will on university policy to exclude students on bases other than academic effort or achievement.
For instance, I am over thirty. Should age exclude applicants to programmes?
I favour any policy that keeps you out.

Kidding.

Organisations are free to exclude you because of age.

Discrimination is perfectly legal in the United States, except discrimination on grounds specifically prohibited. The current list is race, color, religion, national origin, sex, age (over 40 only), Vietnam veteran status, and handicap (unless reasonable accommodation is impossible).

Discrimination on any other basis is permitted.

This is Federal law, mind you. States and subordinate jurisdictions have their own laws. Sexual orientation is frequently a category where discrimination is prohibited. The city of Cincinnati, Ohio forbids discrimination against people of "Appalachian heritage," i.e., hillbillies.
 

Sal

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Discrimination is perfectly legal in the United States, except discrimination on grounds specifically prohibited. The current list is race, color, religion, national origin, sex, age (over 40 only), Vietnam veteran status, and handicap (unless reasonable accommodation is impossible).

Discrimination on any other basis is permitted.

This is Federal law, mind you. States and subordinate jurisdictions have their own laws. Sexual orientation is frequently a category where discrimination is prohibited. The city of Cincinnati, Ohio forbids discrimination against people of "Appalachian heritage," i.e., hillbillies.
that covers a lot of bases...what is left to discriminate on that I couldn't twist back to one of the above?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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that covers a lot of bases...what is left to discriminate on that I couldn't twist back to one of the above?
Well, the number one basis for discrimination is "ability to pay." Almost all restaurants and retail establishments require shirt and shoes (but oddly, none require pants. Go figure).

Another permissible basis for discrimination is age, so long as the person being discriminated against isn't over 40.

As far as the "twisting," as a lawyer I've had many occasions to explain to aggrieved persons "It's not enough that they fired you and you're black, you have to prove they fired you BECAUSE you're black."
 

gerryh

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My dearest Gerry,
The word University derives from the Latin Universitas which means "the whole." As such, a university should foster the whole- community, a community of learners. The emphasis is on inclusivity not exclusivity. Fraternities and sororities are exclusive by nature. A quick search would have told you that many universities, based on that philosophical premise, have banned these organizations from their campuses. On the Prairies, the University of Saskatchewan and the University of Regina were two such institutions. However, in 2012, students successfully lobbied for change in that policy.

To Greek, or not to Greek: our university needs frats and sororities - The Sheaf
In arguing the merits of sororities and fraternities, arguments included: "With all the good that comes from Greek life, there is still lingering criticism. Too many people still assume fraternities and sororities are about pretentious young adults drinking to excess and slacking through school. This is simply untrue."

Subsequently, University of Saskatchewan OMEGA XI Fraternity Pubcrawl on March 30th | College Fresh Music


My dearest spade (what a pretentious twerp)


YOU made the statement that "REAL" Universities don't have Frats, I list a few "REAL" universities and then all you can come up with is 2 universities on the prairies which banned them and are now reversing that ban. It kinda flys into your own statement when your defense is not even a defense.


As to the op, this is a prime example of reverse discrimination. All Black, all Hipanic, etc Frats are allowed on campus with the accompanying discrimination. Regardless of what Tecumseh has said, I believe that if/when whites apply for membership in these Frats they will be turned down. They may not be honest with the reason, but only an idiot would think it was anything other than the colour of their skin. Kinda like only an idiot would miss the pretentiousness and facetiousness of the "My Dearest" salutation in spades reply to me.