Alberta GTFO?

petros

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PS to the above. Maybe Carney shouldn’t refer to Alberta’s Premier as…

…as that might not go over well.
She has two more balls than Carney

Only one politician in Canada is fighting WITH Trump.

When are the chimps hammering on keyboard going to evolve and write the chimp Iliad or at least the the eulogy of the Maoists.

Every country selling oil to China is getting Trumps dick up their ass. Do you feel it?
 
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Ron in Regina

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Now that the election is over and Skippy not only lost but lost bigly, Alberta's Cunt in Charge is pushing the demands she said before the election, or threatening.

She's also talked about putting in a way for Albertan's to have a referendum over the idea of leaving.
Here’s an interesting comparison for perspective:
She's also talked about putting in a way for Albertan's to have a referendum over the idea of leaving.
…or a referendum over the idea of staying, depending on the perspective or bias towards demonization. From the above link:
Many of these folks live in Ontario (or points east of Ontario?) and they don’t appear to get what’s going on in Alberta.

They are absorbed in the fear and loathing of the Donald Trump psychodrama. They are consumed by their feelings about the American president.

Their arms are sore from having their elbows up 24/7. Their 51st state nightmares cause them to lose sleep.

“As scared as these people are of what Donald Trump is going to do to their economy, that’s how scared Albertans are of what the Liberals are going to do to the Alberta economy.

“Maybe that will help get through to them a little bit. That’s how we’re feeling in Alberta.

“We’re feeling like the biggest threat to our economic survival is Ottawa, is continued Liberal-NDP policy like we’ve seen over the last 10 years.
 

Taxslave2

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Arnold also said that now is a good time for Carney to “sell Canada” to disaffected Albertans, with national pride rising in the face of tariffs and annexation threats from U.S. President Donald Trump.
I think he has that backwards. Carnage needs to sell Alberta to the welfare provinces.

For the most part, Alberta's grievances with the feds and the east in general, is An exploded view of the problems rural areas of the provinces have with the vote rich but small geographic cities that make rules that are either not supported, and/or have a negative impact on the general wellbeing of the majority of the province.
 
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Ron in Regina

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Prime Minister Mark Carney has an opportunity to reset the federal government’s relationship with Alberta and Saskatchewan and he should take it. The attitude of the previous Liberal government under Justin Trudeau towards these provinces was made clear when one of his cabinet ministers committed the classic political gaffe of accidentally telling the truth.
That summed up the historic attitude of Liberal governments, made explicit by legendary Liberal campaign organizer Sen. Keith Davey in the 1980 election, whose slogan was “Screw the West, we’ll take the rest.”
With the Liberals winning only two seats in Alberta and one in Saskatchewan in this election, pursuing the Trudeau government’s attitude will further divide the country when what’s needed in the face of U.S. President Donald Trump’s tariff war against Canada is national unity.
 

Serryah

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It's not money motivated. It's about control. Money comes with control.

True, but personally I think it's more Money because again, it's always the West freaking out when their "Money" is taken and "given" to someone else, but it's also that I think once the sources of the money are gone, so will those who want the "Control". And in that, he wasn't "off" at all.

Canadian? That's it?

Considering the culture of Canada is freakin' complex thanks to a lot of the immigration we've had? Is being Canadian not enough? Think about your original question: "What do you have in common with anyone from the west now that you can't have with an independent west?"

If the West was to go "Independent", it would no longer be Canadian. The culture of the people out that way would shift because of that Independence. You honestly think that if the West went Independent, that there'd still be "Canadian Values", "Canadian Beliefs" and the social norms that are part of Canada now would continue? Be honest.

We don't have the same lifestyles or cultures.

How do you figure? I mean on lifestyle sure, I can agree with that somewhat only because lifestyles vary by individual people, but culture? I think if you actually look at the definition of culture, you might realize that actually we DO share a lot. I don't believe that there isn't ANY culture that you don't share with others in Canada.

Unless you're saying you don't believe in ANYTHING that's Canadian in which case, why bother to live here? I mean, usually people who don't have "Canadian Values/Beliefs" are told to not come to Canada, aren't they, if they're from another country? So why should people without said values/beliefs stay in a Country that doesn't share those things too?

Neither of us have the same lifestyles and culture of S Ontario or Quebec.

Even in Quebec there is some shared culture, Petros. Might not be with every single person, but there are those who live there who share similar culture to people not from Quebec. And as for Southern Ontario - I actually follow a few people online from that area and again, yeah, I share similar culture with them, too.

BC is unique but shares the culture of AB SK and MB where a huge portion of BC residents originated.

And in AB, a LOT of people from my way have moved there, lived there and either stayed or have come back. In doing so, they've brought Maritime Culture to Alberta. And even Alberta culture back this way. Or are you going to say that didn't happen?

That's not a fact Numbered Treaties involved ceding and surrender of land to the Crown. The Feds are failing them miserably.

On that you will NOT have me disagree at all.

Housing, education and health are all substandard.

Again, agreed.

Some bands are stinking rich with the cash and power to build pipelines themselves and others are ignored by the Feds living in 3rd world conditions.

Fully aware of it and it's a thing that needs to be fixed. But it's not just the Feds that are the issue on this, either.

You do realize Western FNs are Conservatives and are part of the push?

What push, to separate? Not according to the letters sent to Smith, they're not. I believe the quote is something like "If you don't want to be part of Canada, pack up and move elsewhere yourself."

Contrary to Commie Steve it's the massive mining companies and oil companies that pump tonnes of money directly into First Nations.

And I'm sure "Commie Steve" would agree with that.

FNs are fully capable of creating and funding their own investment and Equity companies but some can't because they have no resources or infrastructure. That needs to change.

Again, absolutely agree.

In a significant move towards Indigenous economic sovereignty, a consortium of 72 Indigenous communities in Western Canada is set to acquire a 5.34% stake in TC Energy's Nova Gas transmission system and Foothills pipeline assets, spanning 25,000 kilometers. This $1 billion deal, backed by the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation (AIOC), marks a large-scale Indigenous equity ownership agreement in Canada.

They can help each other too.

Good to hear all this; bout time. Much as I'd hope they handle such a thing better than the Feds, it likely won't happen because greed sucks.


Sorry took so long to get back to this.
 

Serryah

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I think you missed part of my point. Example is when you are renting a piece of property and the building owner sells the building, you get new landlords. You don't renegotiate your lease.

You don't renegotiate your lease?

Depends on the new landlords, last I knew though if new people take over a building, they send out notices of the take over and inform tenants of whether the leases will remain the same, or if there will be changes, which allows tenants to renegotiate.

Not sure why it wouldn't be like that elsewhere.

I am saying that "The Crown" position and obligations could be handed over to the new country and they would honour them (as much as Canada has honoured them but that is another conversation).

They COULD honor them, not that they would. There is nothing that would keep a new country's leadership to 'honor obligations' made not under their purview unless renegotiated with all parties involved.
 

Serryah

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That is a very good question. History has shown that few things liberals have done "for the good of ALL Canada" actually WERE good for anywhere West of Manitoba. I would expect there are some that want to separate regardless, but I think the majority just want to be treated equally for a change. With, no doubt some goodies that only benefit the West but have no impact from Ontario East. Also remember that the majority of BC, area wise, is willing to join Alberta should they separate, giving Alberta ocean access and a couple of good harbours. Part of that is frustration with both Ottawa and the lower mainland dicktating rules that are detrimental to all of BC except the Lower Mainland, which is not affected at all by them.
Interesting times to be sure.

Except that it's not true about BC being willing to join Alberta if they separate unless you've gone some super insider info that isn't out anywhere.
 
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Serryah

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I guess it leads to a few questions.

I know you asked this to Ron but... I wanna answer anyway :p

Does Canadian culture include a history of racism?

Yes. Denying it only exacerbates the issues.

Let's get past the knee-jerk "I'm not a racist!" and ask the question honestly. . . do you (whoever "you" is) ever make assumptions about people based on their ethnicity/race/sex/religion/whatever?

Personally, I try really hard not to. But I also am of the belief everyone is racist in some way, it's how we DEAL with it that matters (and no, no one is born racist, either)

Does your organization/institution represent the pool from which it draws in proportion to the ethnicities/races/sexes/religions/whatevers of those pools?

(gonna bypass this as it was directed at Ron)

Is anti-rape/anti-sexual assault training a good thing or a bad thing?

It should be a good thing.

Is anti-drug/anti-alcohol abuse training a good thing or a bad thing?

Again, it should be a good thing.

So. . . racism, cultural bigotry, sexism, and alcohol problems have existed, and continue to exist, in Canadian society.

Yeah, they do.

Why is DEI the only one of these things you should NOT be training people on?

Because people are focused on the wrong thing, are caught up on the "Buzzwords" of the day and, frankly, I think it's also a bleed over from the US into the "Conservative" types in Canada, who want to for some reason make Canada more like the US. So in order to be more like the US, we need to do things more like the US (DOGE, kill anything DEI, believe we're being overrun by Immigration, etc)
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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You don't renegotiate your lease?

Depends on the new landlords, last I knew though if new people take over a building, they send out notices of the take over and inform tenants of whether the leases will remain the same, or if there will be changes, which allows tenants to renegotiate.

Not sure why it wouldn't be like that elsewhere.



They COULD honor them, not that they would. There is nothing that would keep a new country's leadership to 'honor obligations' made not under their purview unless renegotiated with all parties involved.
It was not an option when it happened to me. Not that I would have. Market rents are much higher than what I am paying. I am pretty sure that leases are inherited in Ontario. But yes, if both parties are willing to re-negotiate a lease can be re-negotiated at any time. But without that, the new landlord is expected to honour the inherited lease.

Most of the treaties were made with Britain and "The Crown". The Canadian government inherited them when Canada was formed and it is my belief that they would pass to the new government of the new country should one be created.

Just to be clear, I am not in favour of separation but am enjoying this purely theoretical discussion.
 

Ron in Regina

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Sorry took so long to get back to this.
Empathy. Life is both busy & time consuming.
1746795354187.jpeg
I’ve read both of those letters now arguing that the numbered treaties situated in Alberta are a higher, purer form of authority; that secession talk violates treaty rights; and that treaty land is literally their property and thus untransferable.

We get statements like the one by Grand Chief Greg Desjarlais of Treaty 6, who wrote that Smith’s referendum-friendly amendments were a “direct violation of the Treaty relationship that exists between our Nations and the Crown,” adding, “Our Treaties are internationally binding, solemn covenants and cannot be broken by any province or political party…. These Lands were never ceded, nor surrendered.” What he meant by “internationally binding” wasn’t clear, and he certainly wasn’t correct about cessation. Treaty land is by definition ceded land — it was surrendered in exchange for benefits provided by the Crown.

Meanwhile, the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs took greater liberties in explaining their view of the law, making the case that Alberta isn’t a “nation” at international law, but that First Nations are, per the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP). Provinces, says the assembly, are “administrative regions within the Canadian federation and do not possess the right to self-determination,” while First Nations have sovereignty and self-determination rights.

It’s a nearly malicious retelling of how Canada works: First Nations aren’t sovereign — they’re Crown subjects like anyone else; provinces have a large degree of self-determination power, which is detailed in the constitution. The fact that UNDRIP validates the existence of Indigenous groups around the world doesn’t make other levels of human organization illegitimate.

Similarly, the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations released a statement arguing that “Any process of separation that fails to honour the true spirit and intent of our treaties would violate both constitutional and international law.”

Their frustrations make sense. Constitutional protection and the stability of a long relationship with Ottawa and hammered-out expectations are worth a lot. Plus, it’s the federal government that provides funding and benefits while laying off on the thorny matters of financial disclosure. The current federal government has been generous in signing billion-dollar settlements, including one for $1.4 billion last year in Alberta.

Weighing in on Alberta, Dwight Newman, a constitutional law professor, Indigenous rights expert and Canada-Research-Chair-holder at the University of Saskatchewan, told me the treaties would raise “genuine issues” were the province to separate.

The most extreme parts of the Indigenous side have been arguing for ethno-sovereignty for years, embracing the freemen-on-the-land-like “land back” movement and urging for an expansion of unique treatment under Canadian law. They use UNDRIP, memetic news stories, and “reconciliation” as levers to pull for even more state benefits and permissions, and the current federal government almost never says no.

Their exaggerated understanding of Indigenous sovereignty — on display in their statements about separation — and their hold on Canadian land is voraciously lapped up by our own media, which often presents these views without counterpoints, giving them the appearance of legitimacy. Sure, they claim to love the Crown now, but just wait until it’s convenient to once again blame it for all their woes.

The Alberta separatists, too, put blind faith in the UN — in particular, a treaty that appears to guarantee port access for landlocked states (but in practice, nope!).
They, too, have outsized claims about their hold on these lands, drunk on nostalgia for a libertarian utopia that will never exist because the majority of the province doesn’t indeed want it. The provincial government doesn’t tell them to buzz off, and instead amends its laws to better accommodate their desires.
 

Taxslave2

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How do you figure? I mean on lifestyle sure, I can agree with that somewhat only because lifestyles vary by individual people, but culture? I think if you actually look at the definition of culture, you might realize that actually we DO share a lot. I don't believe that there isn't ANY culture that you don't share with others in Canada.
Nice of you to define exactly what Canadian culture is so the rest of us will know if we measure up.
Except that it's not true about BC being willing to join Alberta if they separate unless you've gone some super insider info that isn't out anywhere.
You really should learn a bit about Canada. Not everyone kowtows the liberal party line. Maybe read some news not on CBC. Most everyone outside the lower mainland knows there is significant dissatisfaction with the current rulers. Both federal and Provincial. Especially the blocking of resource development. TurdOWE put a ban on tanker traffic on the North coast specifically to prevent oil and gas development in BC and Alberta.
 
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Taxslave2

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Because people are focused on the wrong thing, are caught up on the "Buzzwords" of the day and, frankly, I think it's also a bleed over from the US into the "Conservative" types in Canada, who want to for some reason make Canada more like the US. So in order to be more like the US, we need to do things more like the US (DOGE, kill anything DEI, believe we're being overrun by Immigration, etc)
No, people are caught up on the difference in economics. The US economy is doing well, Canada's has been in the tank for a decade. Taxes are up, real wages are down. More unwanted and unwarranted government intrusion in our lives.
DEI is about as racist a program as one could get. You don't give people top jobs based on their race or sex. Merit is the only criteria for leadership. Just as you don't lower the standards for firefighters and police just because someone wants to be one but physically can't do the job. Think of it as being like the Olympics.
 
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petros

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True, but personally I think it's more Money because again, it's always the West freaking out when their "Money" is taken and "given" to someone else, but it's also that I think once the sources of the money are gone, so will those who want the "Control". And in that, he wasn't "off" at all.



Considering the culture of Canada is freakin' complex thanks to a lot of the immigration we've had? Is being Canadian not enough? Think about your original question: "What do you have in common with anyone from the west now that you can't have with an independent west?"

If the West was to go "Independent", it would no longer be Canadian. The culture of the people out that way would shift because of that Independence. You honestly think that if the West went Independent, that there'd still be "Canadian Values", "Canadian Beliefs" and the social norms that are part of Canada now would continue? Be honest.



How do you figure? I mean on lifestyle sure, I can agree with that somewhat only because lifestyles vary by individual people, but culture? I think if you actually look at the definition of culture, you might realize that actually we DO share a lot. I don't believe that there isn't ANY culture that you don't share with others in Canada.

Unless you're saying you don't believe in ANYTHING that's Canadian in which case, why bother to live here? I mean, usually people who don't have "Canadian Values/Beliefs" are told to not come to Canada, aren't they, if they're from another country? So why should people without said values/beliefs stay in a Country that doesn't share those things too?



Even in Quebec there is some shared culture, Petros. Might not be with every single person, but there are those who live there who share similar culture to people not from Quebec. And as for Southern Ontario - I actually follow a few people online from that area and again, yeah, I share similar culture with them, too.



And in AB, a LOT of people from my way have moved there, lived there and either stayed or have come back. In doing so, they've brought Maritime Culture to Alberta. And even Alberta culture back this way. Or are you going to say that didn't happen?



On that you will NOT have me disagree at all.



Again, agreed.



Fully aware of it and it's a thing that needs to be fixed. But it's not just the Feds that are the issue on this, either.



What push, to separate? Not according to the letters sent to Smith, they're not. I believe the quote is something like "If you don't want to be part of Canada, pack up and move elsewhere yourself."



And I'm sure "Commie Steve" would agree with that.



Again, absolutely agree.



Good to hear all this; bout time. Much as I'd hope they handle such a thing better than the Feds, it likely won't happen because greed sucks.


Sorry took so long to get back to this.
Thanks for the reply.

It's still sbout control.

First and foremost, before even touching on "western independence" control doesn't mean unwilling to share the wealth.

2nd, lose your image and idea that's it's about oil and just Alberta. Your image of the West is shaped by the people of the east. Do you think we're all farmers, ranchers and rig pigs in SK? Sask is 70% urban. You probably live closer to a cow than I or most of SK does and AB is even urban.

Is it fair BC isn't allowed to export its resources by the Pacific through pipelines and rail? BC is a major player in oil and gas from their piece of the prairies (yes BC has flat ass prairie). Why is BC landlocked having to route its O&G through AB SK and MB all because Liberals have a hate on for Alberta?

O&G only scratches the surface of the Feds holding the West back.

Want an example? Flour. I'm smack dab in the middle of wheat heaven, would you expect massive flour mills and bakeries out here like logic dictates McCains, Cavendish and Highliner are where the fish and potatoes are? Nope. No big flour mills and bakeries here because S Ontario mills and bakeries allegedly wouldn't exist. The list goes on and on and on and on and on.

Its not just pipelines. Have you ever driven from Calgary to Vancouver? It's staggering how many lives are lost due to it being a piece of shit. Why? The Feds. The last and what were always the worst parts of the highway are 100% on the Feds shoulders. It's only been within the last 15 years there has been 4 lanes from Ontario border to BC Border not because Feds coughed up money for their share of our "national highway" we did it ourselves.

Our cultures are already are very different without separation. The only thing we share in common is the name Canada. I've been to NB, fantastic place with a culture, lifestyle, music, food and even language quasi-foreign to me. S. Ontario is flat out American to me.

First Nations... there seems to be quite a few tribes missing on the opposed list. The ones you see squaking don't represent all the nations within their Treaties. 6&8 are interprovincial. 6's concerns is being cut in two and 8 into 4. The money and power tribes in 67 and 8 didn't sign on with the those on TV and they only speak of AB not SK or BC YT or NWT separating as a whole.

I'll believe it when Stony and Tsuutina are on board.

It's no longer just an Alberta thing at 36%, SK is at 34% and 28% in BC are in favour. That's massive for being an unorganized movement.
 
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Dixie Cup

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PS to the above. Maybe Carney shouldn’t refer to Alberta’s Premier as…

…as that might not go over well.
Honestly - really?? Danielle Smith is the most REASONABLE Premier we've had in a while. To call her vulgar names simply shows how ignorant one has to be for falling so low!!
 
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Taxslave2

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It's no longer just an Alberta thing at 36%, SK is at 34% and 28% in BC are in favour. That's massive for being an unorganized movement.
When one considers that the24% of BC residents in favour represents something north of 50% of residents outside the lower mainland and the south half of the island, the number is staggering. These are mostly huge ridings as well. For scale, the Northern half of Vancouver Island, with a sizeable chunk of surrounding mainland is one riding, while the rest of the island is 6 ridings.
 

Ron in Regina

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Last weekend members of the NDP-A voted at a general assembly to allow for separate provincial memberships in the party: no longer will the NDP be one and indivisible.

It seems there is widespread agreement that Alberta’s economy and its political culture are so distinctive from Canada’s, and so permanently incompatible with it, that the two entities really needed to… what’s the word I’m looking for? “Separate”?
NDP-A leader Naheed Nenshi, who executed the NDP schism, also spent some of the weekend denouncing Premier Danielle Smith’s plans to allow and even slightly facilitate a referendum on Alberta independence: maybe I’m being flippant, but I guess he’s a separatist only for his own gang.

As a federalist Albertan, I’ve observed a lot of dread and anger both inside and outside the province about Smith’s openness to using the threat of separatism as an advanced Quebecois-style version of what are otherwise time-honoured anti-Ottawa tactics.
As Alberta’s premier, Smith sees it as her job to take the secessionist threat seriously. At the same time, she recognizes her job is to try to make sure support for separation from Canada doesn’t gather steam.

To that end, Smith notes, she’s obliged to work with Prime Minister Mark Carney and has been very clear: “We’ve heard a lot of talk for a lot of years, a lot of talk during the election. But there’s going to be some concrete actions that will need to be taken if (Carney) wants to make sure that it doesn’t tip over and become a majority.”
“EV tariffs that punish farmers and ranchers in Canada is an unfair approach to Team Canada,” Sigurdson declares. “If Ottawa wants to keep claiming that it’s a Team Canada approach, then they need to start dealing with the issues that affect the western part of the team.”
 
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Dixie Cup

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Except that it's not true about BC being willing to join Alberta if they separate unless you've gone some super insider info that isn't out anywhere.
Actually, it is true. Separation from B.C. for the Northern area of B.C. has been discussed before & a LOT of B.C. were willing to cast off for Alberta. There were multiple reasons but mostly about taxation, the fact that the B.C. government doesn't give a crap about N. B.C. & what their needs are. It was a big deal for awhile & I'm sure it would be a big deal if separation really arises in Alberta. It'll be interesting, for sure!
 

Ron in Regina

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Alberta Premier Danielle Smith isn’t “stoking the fire of Alberta separation” by warning that unless the federal Liberal government changes its approach to Alberta, a separatist movement is bound to grow in the province.

Smith has repeatedly claimed she is not a separatist. Personally she sees many benefits to Alberta remaining in a united Canada. She said so again on Monday in a 19-minute, online address to Albertans.
 

spaminator

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Calgary, Edmonton mayors call potential separatism referendum ’dangerous’
Author of the article:Canadian Press
Canadian Press
Matthew Scace
Published May 10, 2025 • Last updated 1 day ago • 3 minute read

CALGARY — Alberta’s two big-city mayors say a separation referendum would be “devastating” to their local economies and is a needless distraction during a period in which the country should be focused on unity.


“It is very dangerous talk,” Edmonton Mayor Amarjeet Sohi said in an interview with The Canadian Press. “It is dangerous talk for our economy. It’s dangerous talk for our social cohesion. It’s going to tear apart communities.”

Discontent in Western Canada has picked up renewed traction with Prime Minister Mark Carney’s Liberals winning a mandate in the recent election and a new bill from Premier Danielle Smith’s government that would make it easier to bring citizen-led questions to a referendum.

The bill would lower the number of signatures needed for a citizen-led referendum on a constitutional question to 177,000 signatures from more than 600,000. It would also extend the time frame allowed for those signatures to be collected to 120 days from 90.

The Supreme Court of Canada has dictated that a province cannot unilaterally separate from the country. A vote to sever ties would send the province and federal government into negotiations over a litany of issues ranging from First Nation treaties to ownership of federal land such as national parks. While Smith has deferred to legal scholars on those questions, constitutional experts have said there is no road map for separation negotiations.



Critics have charged Smith with stoking the embers of separatism during a period in which Canada’s relationship with its closest ally has frayed under U.S. President Donald Trump. Smith, meanwhile, has said the government has been targeting those changes for a long time because it felt the previous bar for signatures was impossibly high.

Earlier this week, Smith told CTV that she doesn’t want to see the separatism movement splinter into a mainstream party like the Bloc Quebecois or Parti Quebecois in Quebec. “If there isn’t an outlet (for frustration) it creates a new party,” she said.

Sohi, who unsuccessfully ran for the Liberals in the federal election and is not running for re-election in Edmonton this fall, said having a referendum on the question of separation would cause “full flight of investment from our communities.”


“I am already hearing from business community members here in Edmonton that are deeply concerned about this question,” Sohi said. “If there were to be a referendum, it will definitely cause full flight of investment from our communities.”

Alberta Municipalities, Rural Municipalities of Alberta, and the Business Council of Alberta declined to comment.

Calgary Mayor Jyoti Gondek said in an interview that lowering the threshold to bring forward a referendum is a distraction during a time when Canada needs to strengthen its economy.

“It creates uncertainty. It creates lack of confidence from investors,” Gondek said. “It’s a dangerous game to play at a time that we should be looking out for ourselves.”

She added that Calgary and other Alberta municipalities have butted heads with the province on many occasions, but they have never considered leaving. Calgary and the provincial government have sparred in recent years over numerous issues, including the fate of the billion-dollar Green Line transit project and a bill granting the province greater control over funding deals between the city and federal government.

“Municipalities in this province have been through a lot. We have been surprised by legislation that has stripped us of abilities to do our job. But not once have you seen a municipality say, ‘I wish to remove myself from the province. I wish to be an independent entity.’ We don’t do that because we know it’s not sustainable,” Gondek said.

“So how on Earth can this province think it’s a good idea to separate from the rest of Canada?”
 

Taxslave2

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Perhaps if said mayors had a wee bit more concern for their province, they would be after Ottawa to fix the problems.
 
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