2016 Presidential Campaign

hillary rodham clinton vs donald john trump who will win?

  • hillary rodham clinton

    Votes: 12 40.0%
  • donald john trump

    Votes: 18 60.0%

  • Total voters
    30

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
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Clinton CRUSHES Trump in post-debate polls

There you have it, folks. The polls are in, and the viewers have rendered their verdict: It was an absolute slaughter. CNN's poll shows 62 percent of those who watches the first debate felt that Hillary Clinton won, while only 27 percent said that Trump was the victor. A separate poll from PPP, meanwhile, also gave a win to Clinton, by a 51-40 margin.

For once, the pundits, the pollsters, and the people all agree. Now let’s just see how Trump reacts tomorrow.

Clinton CRUSHES Trump in post-debate polls

CNN?
lol...the communist news network?
with a viewership of what, a couple thousand? jeez
you make us larf

**DRUDGE POLL** WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?
TRUMP 81.5% (298,982 votes)
CLINTON 18.5% (67,869 votes)
Total Votes: 366,851
http://drudgereport.com/flashnyd.htm
 
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mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Now don't be jealous of my coque.


Stocks, Mexico peso bounce as markets score one for Clinton

World shares swung higher and the Mexican peso surged more than two percent on Tuesday, as investors awarded the first U.S. presidential debate to Democrat Hillary Clinton over Republican Donald Trump.

Markets have tended to see Clinton as the candidate of the status quo, while few are sure what a Trump presidency might mean for U.S. foreign policy, international trade deals or the domestic economy.

Snap polls after the debate suggested Clinton had bolstered her chances. She accused Republican Trump of racism, sexism and tax avoidance while the real estate tycoon, making his first run for public office, said Clinton's long years of service represented "bad experience".

For markets the clear winner was the Mexican peso MXN=D2. It surged 2.3 percent having hit an all-time trough in recent days on concerns that a Trump presidency would threaten Mexico's exports to the United States, its single biggest market.

World stocks, Mexico peso bounce as markets score one for Clinton | Reuters
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
59,679
9,225
113
Washington DC
Now don't be jealous of my coque.
Is it coque au vin? Or possibly coque d'or?


Stocks, Mexico peso bounce as markets score one for Clinton

World shares swung higher and the Mexican peso surged more than two percent on Tuesday, as investors awarded the first U.S. presidential debate to Democrat Hillary Clinton over Republican Donald Trump.

Markets have tended to see Clinton as the candidate of the status quo, while few are sure what a Trump presidency might mean for U.S. foreign policy, international trade deals or the domestic economy.

Snap polls after the debate suggested Clinton had bolstered her chances. She accused Republican Trump of racism, sexism and tax avoidance while the real estate tycoon, making his first run for public office, said Clinton's long years of service represented "bad experience".

For markets the clear winner was the Mexican peso MXN=D2. It surged 2.3 percent having hit an all-time trough in recent days on concerns that a Trump presidency would threaten Mexico's exports to the United States, its single biggest market.

World stocks, Mexico peso bounce as markets score one for Clinton | Reuters
Yep, it's up from "dogsh*t" to "horsesh*t".
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
And we want those dogsh*t jobs back! /Trump

How Hillary Clinton killed the Trump brand

Since 2015, Donald Trump has been running a dual campaign: a run for the presidency, and a promotion for his businesses, uniting both under the gleaming gold banner of TRUMP. He touted his financial success as a rationalization for his candidacy, and used his candidacy as an excuse to hawk his products – most notably during his “birther” press conference, a Trump hotel infomercial concluding with a few minutes of racist excuses and lies.

Trump has wavered on many policy issues, but never on his own glory. Trump as brand stood in where facts failed to materialize. “Believe me,” Trump assured Americans, without giving them a reason. He offered no proof of even basic financial acumen like tax returns. His lies and omissions did little to puncture his persona, which, buoyed by a complicit media, was presented as powerful and persuasive.

Last night, Hillary Clinton, the daughter of a drape maker, revealed the man behind the curtain. Combining the personal with the political, she hit Trump where it hurt – his brand, revealed to be as bankrupt as the businesses he bottomed out.

Before last night, Trump had never been confronted directly by an adversary for a sustained period of time. He had appeared before cheering crowds and chatted with sycophants, but dodged or banned any journalist who challenged him. Unlike, for example, Sarah Palin and Katie Couric in 2008, Trump never had an extended interview with an objective party. At the first presidential debate, it was painfully evident why.

Clinton’s brand-destroying strategy emerged early on, when the two candidates were asked about the economy. As Trump lied that he was given a “very small amount” by his father – in reality, it was millions – Clinton noted not only his wealth but his reluctance to spread it. She ticked off a list of workers who he refused to pay, adding that she was grateful that her father was not among them.

Trump’s attempt to present himself as someone who understood American economic pain crumbled when he was outed as a man who caused it. Clinton debunked not only Trump’s origin story, but the ethics of his business practices and, in turn, the ethics of his candidacy. He never recovered.

Trump not only failed to deny that he fleeced workers; he implied they deserved it. When the issue of his tax returns was raised, Trump lied about why he couldn’t release them, citing an audit – which does not prohibit release – and stating that not paying taxes “makes me smart” and is “good business.”

Clinton gave names to these unethical practices: “the Trump loophole” and “Trumped up, trickle-down economics.” Trump, who has spent his campaign devising nicknames for rivals, faltered when his own beloved name was cast in a disparaging light. Lauded by some for his potential to shake things up, Trump was now inextricably tied with shaking people down.

In a classic use of projection, Trump went on to accuse numerous foreign parties, including NATO members, of not paying their share – a claim which fell flat not only because Trump freely admitted he refused to pay his own share, but because his answers revealed his bizarre views of geopolitics.

When asked about Russia, Trump avoided the question. When pressed on ISIS, he gave baffling responses, including a claim that Clinton, 68, had been fighting ISIS her entire adult life – that is, decades before ISIS existed. His responses on cybersecurity ranged from “The computer aspect of cyber is very, very tough” to speculating that America is under siege from “somebody sitting on their bed who weighs 400 pounds.”

But it was the decimation of the Trump brand that seemed to bother him most. Trump complained at the end of the debate that Clinton had run “very mean” ads about him – neglecting to mention that these ads consist largely of Trump’s own words. Clinton responded with yet another personal tale of a woman Trump had insulted and degraded. She forced him to see himself as many others see him: as an abuser, a liar, and a failure.

In the end, Clinton was not Trump’s greatest enemy. “I alone can fix it,” Trump famously proclaimed at the GOP convention. Last night, Trump revealed he alone could destroy it, too.

How Hillary Clinton killed the Trump brand - The Globe and Mail
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,394
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B.C.
I was just on democraticunderground a few moments ago and they are claiming a total victory for Hillary. We shall soon see what that does on the poll numbers ....
And would you really expect anything else from Democratic Underground ?

And we want those dogsh*t jobs back! /Trump

How Hillary Clinton killed the Trump brand

Since 2015, Donald Trump has been running a dual campaign: a run for the presidency, and a promotion for his businesses, uniting both under the gleaming gold banner of TRUMP. He touted his financial success as a rationalization for his candidacy, and used his candidacy as an excuse to hawk his products – most notably during his “birther” press conference, a Trump hotel infomercial concluding with a few minutes of racist excuses and lies.

Trump has wavered on many policy issues, but never on his own glory. Trump as brand stood in where facts failed to materialize. “Believe me,” Trump assured Americans, without giving them a reason. He offered no proof of even basic financial acumen like tax returns. His lies and omissions did little to puncture his persona, which, buoyed by a complicit media, was presented as powerful and persuasive.

Last night, Hillary Clinton, the daughter of a drape maker, revealed the man behind the curtain. Combining the personal with the political, she hit Trump where it hurt – his brand, revealed to be as bankrupt as the businesses he bottomed out.

Before last night, Trump had never been confronted directly by an adversary for a sustained period of time. He had appeared before cheering crowds and chatted with sycophants, but dodged or banned any journalist who challenged him. Unlike, for example, Sarah Palin and Katie Couric in 2008, Trump never had an extended interview with an objective party. At the first presidential debate, it was painfully evident why.

Clinton’s brand-destroying strategy emerged early on, when the two candidates were asked about the economy. As Trump lied that he was given a “very small amount” by his father – in reality, it was millions – Clinton noted not only his wealth but his reluctance to spread it. She ticked off a list of workers who he refused to pay, adding that she was grateful that her father was not among them.

Trump’s attempt to present himself as someone who understood American economic pain crumbled when he was outed as a man who caused it. Clinton debunked not only Trump’s origin story, but the ethics of his business practices and, in turn, the ethics of his candidacy. He never recovered.

Trump not only failed to deny that he fleeced workers; he implied they deserved it. When the issue of his tax returns was raised, Trump lied about why he couldn’t release them, citing an audit – which does not prohibit release – and stating that not paying taxes “makes me smart” and is “good business.”

Clinton gave names to these unethical practices: “the Trump loophole” and “Trumped up, trickle-down economics.” Trump, who has spent his campaign devising nicknames for rivals, faltered when his own beloved name was cast in a disparaging light. Lauded by some for his potential to shake things up, Trump was now inextricably tied with shaking people down.

In a classic use of projection, Trump went on to accuse numerous foreign parties, including NATO members, of not paying their share – a claim which fell flat not only because Trump freely admitted he refused to pay his own share, but because his answers revealed his bizarre views of geopolitics.

When asked about Russia, Trump avoided the question. When pressed on ISIS, he gave baffling responses, including a claim that Clinton, 68, had been fighting ISIS her entire adult life – that is, decades before ISIS existed. His responses on cybersecurity ranged from “The computer aspect of cyber is very, very tough” to speculating that America is under siege from “somebody sitting on their bed who weighs 400 pounds.”

But it was the decimation of the Trump brand that seemed to bother him most. Trump complained at the end of the debate that Clinton had run “very mean” ads about him – neglecting to mention that these ads consist largely of Trump’s own words. Clinton responded with yet another personal tale of a woman Trump had insulted and degraded. She forced him to see himself as many others see him: as an abuser, a liar, and a failure.

In the end, Clinton was not Trump’s greatest enemy. “I alone can fix it,” Trump famously proclaimed at the GOP convention. Last night, Trump revealed he alone could destroy it, too.

How Hillary Clinton killed the Trump brand - The Globe and Mail
Well the Globe and Mail is still in the tank for Hillary , what else is new ?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
34 false things Donald Trump said at the first presidential debate

1) Falsely said "you're wrong" when the moderator told him a judge ruled New York City's "stop and frisk" program unconstitutional. (That happened in 2013.)

2) Falsely said he had four business bankruptcies. (Clinton was correct — it's six.)

3) Falsely said he "never said" that pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers. (In 2004, he said precisely that: pregnancy is "a wonderful thing for the woman, it's a wonderful thing for the husband, it's certainly an inconvenience for a business. And whether people want to say that or not, the fact is it is an inconvenience for a person that is running a business.")

4) Falsely said "I did not. I did not" to Clinton's charge that he thinks Climate change is a "hoax perpetrated by the Chinese." (He wrote on Twitter in 2012: "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing noncompetitive." In 2014, he tweeted, "Snowing in Texas and Louisiana, record setting freezing temperatures throughout the country and beyond. Global warming is an expensive hoax!")

5) Falsely said, "Wrong, wrong" when Clinton said he supported the invasion of Iraq. (He publicly supported the war; there is no evidence he changed his mind until after the war.)

6) Falsely said, "They did an article in a major magazine, shortly after the war started. I think in '04. But they did an article which had me totally against the war in Iraq." (The article, in Esquire, was not "shortly after the war started"— it was 17 months into the war.)

7) Falsely characterized interviews about Iraq with Howard Stern and Neil Cavuto: "The record shows that I'm right. When I did an interview with Howard Stern, very lightly, first time anyone's asked me that, I said, very lightly, I don't know, maybe, who knows? Essentially. I then did an interview with Neil Cavuto." (Trump did not say "I don't know, maybe, who knows" to Stern in 2002; in fact, he said, "Yeah, I guess so. I wish the first time it was done correctly." In the interview with Cavuto, he did not take an actual position, saying: "Well, he has either got to do something or not do something."

8) Falsely said to Clinton, "You've been fighting ISIS your entire adult life." (ISIS was founded after Clinton turned 50.)

9) Falsely said, "And now you want to approve Trans-Pacific Partnership." (Clinton made a significant false claim on this subject too; see below. But it is false that she "now" wants to approve it. Though she supported it as secretary of state, she is campaigning in opposition to it.)

10) Falsely said murder has increased in New York City under the current mayor who opposes stop and frisk: "Murders are up. All right. You check it." (In Bill de Blasio's first year, 2014, the number of murders hit another historic low: 328. The city is still near that pace; there have been 246 so far this year, down from last year.)

11) Falsely said, "As far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much from tax returns. That I can tell you. You learn a lot from financial disclosure." (Tax returns provide several additional kinds of detailed information.)

12) Falsely said of his tax returns, "I don't mind releasing. I'm under a routine audit. And it'll be released. And as soon as the audit's finished, it will be released." (Trump is also refusing to release tax returns from 2002 to 2008, years his lawyer says are no longer under audit. One of his sons has acknowledged that he is not releasing the returns because it would hurt his political "narrative.")

13) Falsely said, "ISIS formed in this vacuum created by Barack Obama and Secretary Clinton." (ISIS was created before Obama became president and Clinton became secretary of state. While it gained strength during their tenures, it is false to say it "formed" then.)

14) Falsely said he "just got today" the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police. (The endorsement was delivered 10 days ago.)

15) Falsely said, "We have a Fed that's doing political things. This Janet Yellen of the Fed. The Fed is doing political — by keeping the interest rates at this level." (There is no evidence that Yellen has kept rates low to help Obama or Clinton, as Trump is suggesting. In fact, he himself endorsed her strategy on CNBC in May.)

16) Falsely said Clinton was uttering "lies" when she said nuclear war in East Asia would be "fine," and that he said "have a good time, folks." (In Wisconsin in April, Trump said he was fine with Japan obtaining nuclear weapons for a war against North Korea, and added: "It would be a terrible thing but if they do, they do ... Good luck. Enjoy yourself, folks.")

17) Falsely said, "My father gave me a very small loan in 1975, and I built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars." (Trump is greatly understating his father's help. The loan, he has previously said, was $1 million. Journalists have discovered that he actually received $14 million in loans from his father as he started his career.)

18) Falsely claimed, on the "birther" conspiracy, that "nobody was pressing it" after 2011. (Trump repeatedly tweeted and spoke about the subject in the following years. In 2013, for example, he tweeted, "How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama's "birth certificate" died in plane crash today. All others lived.")

19) Falsely said the U.S. trade deficit "with all of the countries that we do business with" is "almost $800 billion a year." (The trade deficit last year was $532 billion. It rises to $746 billion when only goods are counted, not the services at which the U.S. excels, but Trump did not specify he was excluding the U.S.'s strength.)

20) Falsely said "wrong, wrong" when Clinton told him, "You even at one time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the national debt of the United States." (While he quickly backtracked from this May suggestion, he did make it at one time.)

21) Falsely said, "In addition, I was just endorsed by ICE. They've never endorsed anybody before on immigration. I was just endorsed by ICE." (Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a government agency that does not endorse candidates. Trump was actually endorsed by a union of some of its employees, the National Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Council.)

22) Falsely denied that he has been "praiseworthy of Vladimir Putin." (Trump has praised Putin repeatedly, even calling him a superior leader to Obama.)

23) Falsely said, "They're using our country as a piggy bank to rebuild China." (This makes no sense — the U.S. is a net borrower from China, not the other way around, as Trump himself frequently notes.)

24) Falsely claimed Clinton has "no plan" on the economy. (He can reasonably allege that it is a bad plan, but it exists in great detail.)

25) Falsely said NATO had not "focus(ed) on terror" before he urged it to do so. (From Politifact: "NATO involvement in counterterrorism issued its first formal declaration on terrorism in 1980, and it became a significant issue for the alliance on Sept. 11, 2001, said Lisa Sawyer Samp, a senior fellow in the international security program of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.")

26) Falsely said of China, "They're devaluing their currency, and there's nobody in our government to fight them." (The International Monetary Fund declared last year that China's currency is "no longer devalued." Binyamin Applebaum of the New York Times wrote: "There is no evidence that China is presently engaging in currency devaluation.")

27) Falsely said, of nuclear weapons, "Russia has been expanding their — they have a much newer capability than we do. We have not been updating from the new standpoint." (In fact, the U.S. is currently in the midst of a trillion-dollar effort the New York Times has called a "nationwide wave of atomic revitalization that includes plans for a new generation of weapon carriers.")

28) Falsely claimed that Daesh (also known as the Islamic State) has "a lot of the oil in Libya." (Independent experts say this is false. "They wanted to disrupt it, destroy it, not to run it," energy analyst Matthew Bey told CNBC earlier this month. "They had control of fields around (the city of) Sirte for a while, but they have since been mostly pushed from that area, and never had control of any upstream activity.")

29) Falsely alleged that the Clinton campaign played a high-level role in the birther conspiracy theory: "Patti Solis Doyle was on Wolf Blitzer saying that this happened." (Trump completely mischaracterized her CNN remarks; she had said that a campaign volunteer who forwarded a birther email was fired.)

30) Falsely described Mexico's value-added tax as a kind of trade barrier: "When we sell into Mexico, there's a tax. When they sell in — automatic, 16 per cent, approximately. When they sell into us, there's no tax. It's a defective agreement." (This is a gross misunderstanding of how a VAT works.)

31) Falsely said, "She spent hundreds of millions of dollars on negative ads on me." (Clinton has spent about $100 million in total advertising, CBS reports.)

32) Falsely said of U.S. companies hoarding cash overseas: "They can't bring their money back into our country because of bureaucratic red tape because they can't get together." (The issue is the high U.S. corporate tax rate, not bureaucracy; Trump did note the tax rate a little earlier.)

33) Falsely suggested that Ford's outsourcing of small car production to Mexico will mean "thousands of jobs leaving Michigan." (Ford is shifting the production of new products to the affected plants and not cutting any jobs.)

34) Falsely called Palm Beach, Florida "probably the wealthiest community there is in the world." (Palm Beach is not even the wealthiest community in America, let alone the world. The Palm Beach Post put it at number three in the country; other rankings, with different measures of wealth, have it lower.)

35) Misleadingly said to Clinton, "You are going to approve one of the biggest tax increases in history." (Clinton's increases are large, but they are only on wealthy people.)

36) Misleadingly said, "In New York City, stop and frisk, we had 2,200 murders, and stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders." (It is a great exaggeration to attribute the entire decline to stop and frisk. Crime declined massively around the country during this period, including in cities that did not use the practice.)

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/688...d-trump-said-at-the-first-presidential-debate
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
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USA
Floosy is in full panic mode!



lmao!

2016 presidential debate snap polls show Trump beating Hillary Clinton by a landslide | Daily Mail Online
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
34 false things Donald Trump said at the first presidential debate

1) Falsely said "you're wrong" when the moderator told him a judge ruled New York City's "stop and frisk" program unconstitutional. (That happened in 2013.)

2) Falsely said he had four business bankruptcies. (Clinton was correct — it's six.)


No he truthfully said he had four bankruptcies! He didn't say he had only four bankruptcies.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
I think Trump did well in the first 30 minutes of the debate. He dealt with Trade, America in decline, borders, currency, Nafta, WTO, China, corroding infrastructure, decaying inner cities, crime, futile and immensely costly foreign entanglements,.. all right in his wheelhouse.

He pointed out Hillary's lies and secret plans to implement TPP if elected. It was everything that brought him to this point. He faltered when he took Hillary's bait on irrelevant issues like birther allegations, income tax returns, ancient slurs against women, bankruptcies. Clinton played him.. but all it brought out was Trump's flaws that have already been digested and discarded by the electorate. It was all old news.

In every way Clinton appeared to be the complacent, practiced, scripted, cynical, ideological Washington insider. Trump appeared appeared to be angry, unpracticed, spontaneous, fresh.. and genuine. Clinton dealt out conventional 'truths', minutiae and political correctness.. Trump dealt broad and essential themes. On that basis i gave the decision to Trump, althought that might take a couple of days to settle in.

In an America in the grips of decline and disintegration.. elements of style, which Hillary has mastered.. are going to be far subordinate to elements of substance which Trump proposes. I strongly doubt this debate will move the needle much.. and the general trend to Trump will go on unabated, especially in key rust belt states (Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin.. as well as Florida, North Carolina, Colorado).
 
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