17-year-old girl stoned to death for loving boy of wrong religion

[eh1eh]

Just a side-note, I hope it isn't me you're referring to- in any case, I didn't hit anyone with anything negative in this thread, nor any other, I was honestly trying to further a conversation here- oh well

Dude I'm not sure they know you were posting. LOL;-)

 

[Josephine]

Argh... silly people, putting ends to discussions. Tsk. I'd say ignore it, but, it can be awfully hard to ignore negative rep at times.

But, I still don't get why a man being beaten to death is not the same as a woman being beaten to death, even if the exact same thing precipitated it.

If this boy ends up stoned to death because of having been with this girl, it carries the same importance to me.

Are you calling me silly???;-)

I was thinking the same thing about if the boy was stoned to death...then it would carry the same importance to me as well...honestly!

If the same thing precipitated the beating, then I too would see it as a soley violence thing and not a gender thing.

 

[eh1eh]

See what I mean?

 

[tracy]

But, I still don't get why a man being beaten to death is not the same as a woman being beaten to death, even if the exact same thing precipitated it.

I don't know about this one... maybe it's because we think men have a better chance of defending themselves or have more resources. In a lot of those countries men can leave abuse and women can't. They are restricted in so many more ways than men so it makes their murders that much more galling. It's just one more insult to their dignity which has already been insulted a thousand times before.

Maybe it's because the ones beating women are usually the ones that are supposed to protect them (family, husbands, etc).

 

[Josephine]

EDIT ninja post Josephine- I am referring to the post above the last one (can't really argue with "peace" lol)

I would respectfully disagree with that last sentence, Josephine (in particular), but not in a direct manner, since what you said is true in too many cases

That being said, men are killed because they're men a LOT- tho much less domestically I would admit

How bout "all the fighting age males will DIE"?? Usually the women and children are spared (admittedly again to be subjected to perhaps fates more cruel than death)

Your branding of murder as a gender issue is, to me at least, a tad too narrow to even be productive in any way. Making it a gender issue muddies the underlying problems, trying to pin a VERY complex problem on an almost insignificant facet of the big picture

I agree with that men were killed in war and that on boats or in emergencies it was always "women and children first". But...women have only recently been allowed to go to war...not our fault!;-)

I don't see all murder as a gender issue. Like Jane Creba...not killed because she as a woman. The woman who was murdered recently in the Xerox building (Toronto), she was killed by a man, but it seems he was trying to rob her...I don't see that as a gender issue.
The issue about the stoning, to me, that's a gender issue. She was stoned because as a woman she is not allowed to make her own decisions. She dated the wrong man...accoring to the men. Did any women stone her as well? Maybe they're not allowed to stone others. I really don't know. But like I said if that young man is also stoned, then I would have to concede that's is a violence thing and that anyone who breaks this rule and shames their family would suffer the same fate...not just the women. But all I have to go on here, are the articles and stories that abound about women being stoned to death for being raped or cheating on thier husband. If a man cheats on his wife, is he stoned to death? If he rapes a woman is he stoned to death?

 

[karrie]

Just a side-note, I hope it isn't me you're referring to- in any case, I didn't hit anyone with anything negative in this thread, nor any other, I was honestly trying to further a conversation here- oh well

no worries I'm sure. lol

 

[karrie]

Dude I'm not sure they know you were posting. LOL;-)

hey, you all are stepping in the middle of a chick fight and expect attention and recognition? Psh.

lol.

 

[karrie]

I don't know about this one... maybe it's because we think men have a better chance of defending themselves or have more resources. In a lot of those countries men can leave abuse and women can't. They are restricted in so many more ways than men so it makes their murders that much more galling. It's just one more insult to their dignity which has already been insulted a thousand times before.

Maybe it's because the ones beating women are usually the ones that are supposed to protect them (family, husbands, etc).

That's food for thought.

Darn, I have to go... just when the convo's getting hopping! argh!!

I'll be back after supper... keep the brain food coming. lol.

 

[Pangloss]

Josephine -

Please don't get me wrong in what I am about to say - read my posts and you will see that I am a committed humanist who is just as pissed off at anyone being used as property or killed because they didn't conform to a gender role or a religious role as anyone else.

But please go to any of a number of anti-slavery sites. There are more slaves - yup, good old-fashioned slaves - now than there ever were. Most of those slaves are boys. By a huge margin. Some for sex, some for soldering, but most for backbreaking labour that kills them in a few years.

Girls are taken as slaves as well, of course - and their treatment is really no different. Both boys and girls are treated as property, and disposed of as the easily replaced human trash that their "owners" see them as.

But remember - most of those slaves - by an overwhelming margin - are boys.

Now - to Islam and cultural violence. In Iraq (as just one of too many examples), it is the men from the Sunni and Shia factions that are killing each other. Men and boys. Overwhelmingly. Amnesty International, the Red Cross/Crescent and a number of other humanitarian organizations have the numbers on this.

Don't think I am forgetting the brutal rape of women in conquered territory - the Balkans will forever send a chill through my body, as I remember how institutionalized the rape of the defeated was.

But cultural and conflict violence tends to be carried out more on the men and boys, than on women and girls.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

Pangloss

 

[eh1eh]

hey, you all are stepping in the middle of a chick fight and expect attention and recognition? Psh.

lol.

Is' sorry ms. bloom.

 

[tracy]

Now - to Islam and cultural violence. In Iraq (as just one of too many examples), it is the men from the Sunni and Shia factions that are killing each other. Men and boys. Overwhelmingly. Amnesty International, the Red Cross/Crescent and a number of other humanitarian organizations have the numbers on this.
Pangloss

I think the point there is men are killing eachother. The men are both the murderers and the murdered. Women in those places generally only get to be the latter. I think that's why it's seen differently. If women killed as many men as men killed women, we probably wouldn't care nearly as much.

 

[Josephine]

Josephine -

Please don't get me wrong in what I am about to say - read my posts and you will see that I am a committed humanist who is just as pissed off at anyone being used as property or killed because they didn't conform to a gender role or a religious role as anyone else.

But please go to any of a number of anti-slavery sites. There are more slaves - yup, good old-fashioned slaves - now than there ever were. Most of those slaves are boys. By a huge margin. Some for sex, some for soldering, but most for backbreaking labour that kills them in a few years.

Girls are taken as slaves as well, of course - and their treatment is really no different. Both boys and girls are treated as property, and disposed of as the easily replaced human trash that their "owners" see them as.

But remember - most of those slaves - by an overwhelming margin - are boys.

Now - to Islam and cultural violence. In Iraq (as just one of too many examples), it is the men from the Sunni and Shia factions that are killing each other. Men and boys. Overwhelmingly. Amnesty International, the Red Cross/Crescent and a number of other humanitarian organizations have the numbers on this.

Don't think I am forgetting the brutal rape of women in conquered territory - the Balkans will forever send a chill through my body, as I remember how institutionalized the rape of the defeated was.

But cultural and conflict violence tends to be carried out more on the men and boys, than on women and girls.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

Pangloss

Pangloss...I get what you're saying about slavery...I admit I don't know much about it, but I don't dispute what you said about it. Slavery of any kind is horrible and should not take place.

I do believe though that women experience a level of violence and submission that men don't. Women around the world do not have the same rights legally or physically that men do.

Women are notoriously abused, dismissed and tossed aside on the simple fact that they are women.

What I'm saying here has nothing to do with war or "conflict" though...I think those are different circumstances. (Except when things like the Balkans happens;-) )

 

[karrie]

Don't think I am forgetting the brutal rape of women in conquered territory - the Balkans will forever send a chill through my body, as I remember how institutionalized the rape of the defeated was.

But cultural and conflict violence tends to be carried out more on the men and boys, than on women and girls.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

Pangloss

Not to mention that men and boys face rape too during cultural conflicts and war.

 

[karrie]

Is' sorry ms. bloom.

Well alright then. ;-)

 

[Vereya]

Violene against women is used to keep them in their place. They are beaten or raped or killed often just because they are women. If they were men and did the exact same thing, they would not be killed...they are killed because they did what they did as a woman.

I absolutely agree. Muslim men seem to be very much afraid of women, to be doing the things that they do. Such articles as this one make my blood boil...

 

[tracy]

I absolutely agree. Muslim men seem to be very much afraid of women, to be doing the things that they do. Such articles as this one make my blood boil...

The murderers of this young woman were actually Yezidi, not Muslims. It's a religion I had never heard of before this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yezidi

 

[mabudon]

Well, at least my posts are actually showing up eh?? Thanks for the recognition!!

And back to the OP- isn't it odd that "the other Iraq", the good part, is where this incident took place?? I thought the Kurds were all good or something, but they're just as backwards and barbaric as all the rest. I'm still of the mind that violence is wrong, PERIOD. I DO believe that in extreme cases violence can be necessitated, but even then it is wrong and must be regretted, not celebrated.

As long as we are told to celebrate select violence and abhor other specific types, this kind of thing will continue

 

[Logic 7]

The article says he is in fear for his life, but I question if he is actually in danger.

And no, we don't question a man being beaten to death the way we do when I woman is. If it was common for Women to beat Men to death, maybe that would be an issue. My bet is it's more likely that when a man is beaten to death...it's a man that did it and therefore is not a gender issue. I am aware that there are stories of women killing men...I'm not saying that never happens. But I've read that 85% of women who are murdered are killed by their spouse/partner. I bet almost the entire other 15% is other men.
I'm not a man-hater...although I can see how I may come across that way, but I truly believe that violence against women is rampant in every country and in some countries it's more acceptable and more the norm than others.

I am a men, and i agree entirely with you, you can even see it in politics, how come there is more men in politics,w hen the whole world population is headed by womens? you see right from there there, even here in canada , women doesnt have the same status as a men,when in fact they should have had that status long time ago, maybe we would live in a different world today, maybe not.

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

That poor girl. Words can't even begin.

Ditto

 

[Josephine]

I am a men, and i agree entirely with you, you can even see it in politics, how come there is more men in politics,w hen the whole world population is headed by womens? you see right from there there, even here in canada , women doesnt have the same status as a men,when in fact they should have had that status long time ago, maybe we would live in a different world today, maybe not.

I think that men have the power and the control because they were able to take it. They have the physical ability to literally take whatever they want. The sheer strength they have over women, means they have control. Women have had to fight for control in other ways. I think women in many countries have made amazing strides towards equality, but women are still a long long way off from achieving it.