The New Paganism and the Culture of Death

RomSpaceKnight

Council Member
Oct 30, 2006
1,384
23
38
62
London, Ont. Canada
Paganism as we N. Americans and N. Europeans know it has always been the "enemy" of the christian church. I am not surprised that an RC priest would go gospel when the subject was brought up. Islam and Oriental religions are not a direct threat to the christian church. They may restrict further expansion of the church in to Asia and Africa but are not likely to take away from the NA and European power base. One only has to see the similarity in celebration dates, and religious ceremonies. It was part of a hearts and minds campaign. Pagans celebrate at Yule/Christmas and Eostra/Easter. Pagans have sacraments, altars, burning of candles and incense, and magical incantations to invoke their gods. I use gods in a gender neutral fashion encompassing the various goddesses. Christianity historically has always attempted to stamp out paganism. Crusades directed at Islam only attempted to wrest control of Jerusalem and the "Holy Land". Christianity succeeded in North and Soth America only after the colonially practiced genocide of the native American people and was able to step in to a vaccuum created by the massive death toll and by incoming immigrants. Asia and Africa immune to whiteman's diseases was able for the most part to resist the chritianization of their countries.

Paganism is not new but it may not resemble the old ways much as surviving documentation hardly exists. Some Grecian and Roman artifacts survived. Egyptologists rediscovered some through study of hieroglyphics. Norse paganism was the last to be eliminated in the northward march of christianity and so some literature survived. Paganism is having to rebuild from almost zero with no references to guide it. Who is to say what form it may take in a hundred years. Maybe it will go into decline like many of the worlds major religions as the world turns away from spirituality and towards the worship of money and personal gain.

Paganism is an attempt by some to find a spiritual path back to a more environmentally friendly way that many of the major religions do not address. Native spirituality comes from native people only now being able to climb back from cultural genocide inflicted by European invaders and rediscover their roots. Who are we to say how native culture may have progressed without Europeans on the scene. Technologically they may not have been as industrialized. Agriculturally they were more advanced. Warfare was not unknown to native culture but matriachal and elder led communities led to
slower pace of progress with nature more in mind. Another thousand years could have given the world a truly great civilization ranking up there with Rome and Greece for its thinkers and social progress.

Time will tell. Just as most christian have moved beyond intolerance and inquisition, paganism may mature in to an organized earth friendly spiritual path.
 

RomSpaceKnight

Council Member
Oct 30, 2006
1,384
23
38
62
London, Ont. Canada
"For there is no respect of persons with God."
--Romans 2:11

God is no respecter of persons."
Acts 10:34

"As it is written: "For your sake we are being slain all the day; we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered."
--Romans 8:36

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
--1 Cornithians 1:19

Jesus begged his father to not force him to accept torture and death as the ultimate martyr whipping boy for the planet. He begged at least three times for the God to take this cup from him, (i.e. he did not want to die) but was callously ignored. Jesus in Mark 14 followed God's will, not his own. He was acting under duress.

Just posted to stimulate conversation.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
4,276
42
48
62
Richmond, Virginia
Small world or Goddess blessing? Or you gave me the link and I forgot.....but I dont think so because Ive gotten emails and I dont give that one out to just anyone........hmmmmm interesting.
 

gc

Electoral Member
May 9, 2006
931
20
18
Paganism in general is a silly, false set of beliefs that essentially comprise people of low IQ running about worshipping trees. We once had pagans living next door to us, and they were totally silly in their systems of belief and reminded me very much of cults. Understand that the so called pagans of today have no connecton to real pagans of the past. They believe as they want, and justify it by claiming to be people of the earth and air. Silly, all of it.

The same could be said about Christianity...
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Paganism in general is a silly, false set of beliefs that essentially comprise people of low IQ running about worshipping trees. We once had pagans living next door to us, and they were totally silly in their systems of belief and reminded me very much of cults. Understand that the so called pagans of today have no connecton to real pagans of the past. They believe as they want, and justify it by claiming to be people of the earth and air. Silly, all of it.

I am not a believer in "any" god. And, for one religion to say another is "silly" because of what
they worship, (and, at least a tree is real), is ridiculous, and arrogant.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
Ah yes... I am very pleased to see pagans coming out in their own defense with such spirit and feeling. I'm thoroughly atheist, as most of you know, I think all religion is superstition and mythology, but I can see that there's nothing in paganism that isn't at least as defensible as any of Christianity's claims. And I can also see that I might be wrong, which is something no theist of any stripe I've ever encountered is willing to do. I remain to be convinced, though all the evidence I've ever seen for any religious position seems pretty lame to me.

Christianity has done a very thorough job of demonizing paganism, quite unjustifiably, but it was the competition as Christianity spread over western Europe, so that's to be expected. Every religious belief system demonizes the competition. The demons of Christianity are the gods of the other cultures it grew up with. The Latin roots of the word pagan mean just a country dweller. The closest modern equivalent is probably "bumpkin" or "hick." Still an insult, but hardly a demon.

It think it's all BS, without evidence, merit, or substance. But hey, if it makes you happier and you don't try to push it on me, believe what you will. And that to my way of thinking is paganism's greatest merit: pagans aren't missionaries trying to save me.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
4,276
42
48
62
Richmond, Virginia
Ah yes... I am very pleased to see pagans coming out in their own defense with such spirit and feeling. I'm thoroughly atheist, as most of you know, I think all religion is superstition and mythology, but I can see that there's nothing in paganism that isn't at least as defensible as any of Christianity's claims. And I can also see that I might be wrong, which is something no theist of any stripe I've ever encountered is willing to do. I remain to be convinced, though all the evidence I've ever seen for any religious position seems pretty lame to me.

Christianity has done a very thorough job of demonizing paganism, quite unjustifiably, but it was the competition as Christianity spread over western Europe, so that's to be expected. Every religious belief system demonizes the competition. The demons of Christianity are the gods of the other cultures it grew up with. The Latin roots of the word pagan mean just a country dweller. The closest modern equivalent is probably "bumpkin" or "hick." Still an insult, but hardly a demon.

It think it's all BS, without evidence, merit, or substance. But hey, if it makes you happier and you don't try to push it on me, believe what you will.

My Dearest Dex, Ive said this many times and I'll say it many more Im sure. Pagans dont pretend its not Myth and mystery. We embrace the story and dont pretend its the facts. ;)
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
I know my dear, and I understand that, and I know you think I'm some kind of closet pagan because I think your position makes better sense than any monotheism, but my view is, if it isn't the facts, it isn't worth anything. Our business--or at least part of it--is to establish the facts by inspecting nature as it really is, not as we'd like it to be, and that inspection so far indicates that there's no merit in any religious position. The evidence simply isn't there.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
4,276
42
48
62
Richmond, Virginia
I know my dear, and I understand that, and I know you think I'm some kind of closet pagan because I think your position makes better sense than any monotheism, but my view is, if it isn't the facts, it isn't worth anything. Our business--or at least part of it--is to establish the facts by inspecting nature as it really is, not as we'd like it to be, and that inspection so far indicates that there's no merit in any religious position. The evidence simply isn't there.


No I understand and respect your position.....Your a realist. I just dont want it to be thought in general I think Zeus was a reality or Persephone. They teach lessons in childlike ways just like the teacher Jesus was a charecter that taught to the masses.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
4,276
42
48
62
Richmond, Virginia
I think and this is where my sister and I agree, is that what all religions give to the person involved is belonging. No matter what if you have faith you'll always have a family, love and hope. Its a belonging to something greater.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
77
No we were young at about the same time and they filled our heads with INTOLERANCE toward other religions. However I had an advantage, I was English being brought up in Quebec and most of the English were either Anglican or United church goers and very few RC. Therefore my most of my friends were not catholic and you know what they didn't carry a pickfork. Sorry lame joke. But what they taught us was as lame as my joke. In school they tried to scare the s********** out of us but it didn't work. So there.

Tried to at our school too. Took me years to sort out what was acceptable and what was just brainwashing. Funny though, how sometimes childhood lessons resurface. When my kids reached dating ages, and entered serious relationships, I found myself very concerned that the partners they settled for were Catholic. Luckily they all were.
I actually think it is better if a couple shares the same religion.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
77
I am not a believer in "any" god. And, for one religion to say another is "silly" because of what
they worship, (and, at least a tree is real), is ridiculous, and arrogant.

they are not a religion, they are a self-created set of new age nutbars who are more concerned with these silly ideas of theirs then actually doing what they should as decent human beings. this sort believes in magic rocks and multiple lives, for that is the PC silliness they endorse. Their neo=pagan cult is only less than 40 years old and has not ties what-so-ever to real historical paganism.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
118
63
46
Newfoundland!
christianity was once only 40 years old too. that's no reason to disregard a religion. what they believe is up to them, but there are many of them and they believe in similar things. this defines it as a religion, and it means that when you call them "nutbars" you're mocking a religious group and hence guilty of religious intolerance and as bad as the islamophobes on the site.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
77
christianity was once only 40 years old too. that's no reason to disregard a religion. what they believe is up to them, but there are many of them and they believe in similar things. this defines it as a religion, and it means that when you call them "nutbars" you're mocking a religious group and hence guilty of religious intolerance and as bad as the islamophobes on the site.


Then label me intolerant, for I have no patience with grown up people who worship trees and magic crystals and past lives and whatever other nonsense they can make up as they go along...I think this wiccan/pagan trend in society is very dangerous and harmful to children.
 

AmberEyes

Sunshine
Dec 19, 2006
495
36
28
Vancouver Island
I guess I should be intolerant too! I have no patience with grown up people who worship a god they cant see and follow the words of a man they don't know! I see no reasoning in the people who follow directions like mindless sheep. I think this christian trend in society is very brainwashing and unproductive.

:pukeright:
 

m_levesque

Electoral Member
Dec 18, 2006
524
10
18
Montreal, Quebec
Then label me intolerant, for I have no patience with grown up people who worship trees and magic crystals and past lives and whatever other nonsense they can make up as they go along...I think this wiccan/pagan trend in society is very dangerous and harmful to children.

You're wasting your mind here Mary. These sort of people don't want to accept the truth of God. These sort of people think they can create life as it suits them, regardless of how many others are hurt.
 

canadarocks

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2006
233
6
18
You're wasting your mind here Mary. These sort of people don't want to accept the truth of God. These sort of people think they can create life as it suits them, regardless of how many others are hurt.


So what are you saying, only Catholics can make decisions on anything???