White Man March: Khaki-clad men march for white pride

Blackleaf

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Explaining forever why you are such an idiot.


As I've said before, point out what it was that I said was incorrect in my post and I'll gladly change it (but only if it IS incorrect).

How is that relevant to slavery, genocide, and discrimination committed by the Brits? Are you saying that if all incidents of mass human rights violation are not treated equally, none of them should be addressed? If so, isn't that a bit like saying if we don't catch all murderers, we shouldn't prosecute any murderers?

Why should Evil Whitey be the only one to feel guilty of his past? It just isn't right or fair. If I should feel guilty for "crimes" committed by EviL Whitey before I was even born, then why shouldn't North Africans feel guilty for the crimes their ancestors committed, most notably the capture and trade of white slaves from the British Isles? It wasn't just Evil Whitey who forced people of opposite skin colour into slavery. Blacks (Barbary Pirates) did it to whites (people of the British Isles).

I've got no problem with your pride. Britain's achievements are colossal, and as a Brit you have every right to be proud of them. I would just suggest that if you are proud of and benefit from things the British, as individuals and as a country, did before you were born, then you should also own up to the not-so-nice things the British, as individuals and as a country, did before you were born.

I'm not "owning up" to the "not-so-nice" things done by my country years ago in the days when it was NOT considered wrong to do such things.

Yuh-huh. Because you say so. Twat.

Yeah. Because I say so. You're a racist and a sexist and a left winger. You're an utter disgrace, pal.
 

captain morgan

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How is that relevant to slavery, genocide, and discrimination committed by the Brits? Are you saying that if all incidents of mass human rights violation are not treated equally, none of them should be addressed?

Who said it's exclusively about the Brits?

Kinda brings us back to the issue that all cultures have their representation in various cruelties.

PS - The European slave trade in Africa would never had been possible without the active and direct assistance from the warring tribal factions in Africa. People like to forget that it was the individual tribes that initially enslaved their enemies and later sold them to the foreign slavers.


If so, isn't that a bit like saying if we don't catch all murderers, we shouldn't prosecute any murderers?

Ignoring past atrocities doesn't help either
 

Tecumsehsbones

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As I've said before, point out what it was that I said was incorrect in my post and I'll gladly change it (but only if it IS incorrect).



Why should Evil Whitey be the only one to feel guilty of his past? It just isn't right or fair. If I should feel guilty for "crimes" committed by EviL Whitey before I was even born, then why shouldn't North Africans feel guilty for the crimes their ancestors committed, most notably the capture and trade of white slaves from the British Isles? It wasn't just Evil Whitey who forced people of opposite skin colour into slavery. Blacks (Barbary Pirates) did it to whites (people of the British Isles).
I'm not interested in whatever feelings of guilt you may or may not have. And I'm certainly not interested in any compensation or reparations. I'm on record here in several places as opposing all such for Indians, which is the group I'm most concerned with. I'm also on record as opposing affirmative action for racial minorities, on the very simple grounds that these measures hurt the people that they're ostensibly intended to help.



I'm not "owning up" to the "not-so-nice" things done by my country years ago in the days when it was NOT considered wrong to do such things.
Not considered wrong? Nice use of the passive voice. By whom, exactly, was it not considered wrong? For example, was British slaving "not wrong" until the day it was outlawed in 1833? And if it was "not wrong" until that day, why was it outlawed. Did all Britain wake up that morning with a revelation?



Yeah. Because I say so. You're a racist and a sexist and a left winger. You're an utter disgrace, pal.
A disgrace to what, exactly?

Who said it's exclusively about the Brits?
This thread is about marches in Britain, and I'm talking with a Brit.

Kinda brings us back to the issue that all cultures have their representation in various cruelties.

PS - The European slave trade in Africa would never had been possible without the active and direct assistance from the warring tribal factions in Africa. People like to forget that it was the individual tribes that initially enslaved their enemies and later sold them to the foreign slavers.
Oh, well. That makes it OK then.


Ignoring past atrocities doesn't help either
Won't stop you from doing it.
 

captain morgan

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This thread is about marches in Britain, and I'm talking with a Brit.

Memo: marches are being coordinated on multiple continents, multiple nations


Oh, well. That makes it OK then.

Guess that goes as additional proof that every culture has it's share of the blame... Unless, of course, you feel it helps humanity by recognizing one and absolving all others.

Yeah, that makes it A-OK

Won't stop you from doing it.

Nor you
 

Blackleaf

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By whom, exactly, was it not considered wrong?

By people of the time. You're one of those modern, PC, self-righteous idiots who place easily-offended 21st Century sensibilities onto those of the past.

The fact is that things people like you consider to be wrong today were NOT considered to be wrong by most people in the past. They were different times with different sensibilties.


A disgrace to what, exactly?

To mankind.


Oh, well. That makes it OK then.


Typical of you to ignore the part played in slavery by the blacks and only concentrating on Evil Whitey.

The fact is that North African Barbary pirates captured white people in the British Isles and sold them into slavery.

It wasn't just blacks who were victims of slavery, you know. There were times when whites were the slaves and blacks were the masters.
 

BornRuff

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Nonsense. I'm reading them and understanding them completely. You see aboriginal people as a group because the law sees them as a group.

I don't define people based on skin colour, race, sexual orientation, sex or thumb size. I understand the law does and I understand that people like you like to justify this behaviour but it really doesn't change what it is. Perhaps one day, we can move past the political correctness bull**** and end the racism, bigotry and double standards that currently exist.



Of course it is. You just don't like it because racism is a tremendously emotional subject. Nobody likes to admit that there are racist undertones at the core of their ideas.

Lol, again, you are not reading my posts properly.

Acknowledging that aboriginal people have different land rights under the law does not mean I am saying that every aboriginal person is the same.

If you are making decisions that affect all these different groups, it makes a lot of sense to have people who have experience working within those different legal frameworks.

Saying that it is important to have a voice from that group doesn't imply that the voice speaks for everyone in that group. It is one voice, but one with experience within that different legal context.

If you can't acknowledge basic facts that are written into law, this isn't going to go anywhere.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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By people of the time. You're one of those modern, PC, self-righteous idiots who place easily-offended 21st Century sensibilities onto those of the past.

The fact is that things people like you consider to be wrong today were NOT considered to be wrong by most people in the past. They were different times with different sensibilties.




To mankind.





Typical of you to ignore the part played in slavery by the blacks and only concentrating on Evil Whitey.

The fact is that North African Barbary pirates captured white people in the British Isles and sold them into slavery.

It wasn't just blacks who were victims of slavery, you know. There were times when whites were the slaves and blacks were the masters.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm focussing on the part of the world I live in. To be perfectly honest, I neither know nor particularly care whether tribes in sub-Saharan Africa, or Borneo, or Indonesia kept slaves. Nor am I all that concerned that many Scandanavian societies did the same.

But, and I'm speaking of the U.S. here, the simple fact is that slavery was practiced for three and a half centuries in North America, and was then followed by a century of official, legal, and mandatory discrimination. It wasn't blacks who mandated it, either African blacks or American blacks. These practices, and discrimination against other groups of non-whites and women, had effects that continue today, fifty years after most of the official, legal, mandatory discrimination was ended.

I think it odd how some people, like you and Captain Morgan, celebrate the traditions of your countries that go back centuries and form a large part of what it is to be British or Canadian, yet pretend that the less pleasant parts of your traditions play no role whatever in modern Britain or Canada (or the U.S., I'm not excluding that, but merely addressing you and Cap).

It is largely because of the duration of the discrimination, and the continuity of the countries that practiced it, that the effects continue so strongly. By contrast, the African nations that you bellyache about no longer exist (and were hardly even nations as we think of them when they did exist).

Finally, I have no interest in whether you feel guilty or not. Your emotional state is a matter of utter indifference to me (Cap's is a little more important to me, but hardly a big priority). I also don't care what Canada or Britain do about matters of race or other group identity and treatment. As a citizen of the U.S. and Ireland, I'm concerned about what those countries do about these issues.

As far as your personal bigotry goes, Schwarzblatt, again I don't really care. It's just kinda fun to point it out every now and again, because you're one of the least pleasant people I've ever encountered.

Memo: marches are being coordinated on multiple continents, multiple nations




Guess that goes as additional proof that every culture has it's share of the blame... Unless, of course, you feel it helps humanity by recognizing one and absolving all others.

Yeah, that makes it A-OK



Nor you
I understand, by the way, that there is no point in talking to you or Schwarzblatt about this. The two of you are constitutionally incapable of even entertaining the idea that a view different from yours could possibly have any validity. If that were otherwise, I might explain exactly why many non-whites blame the Euro-American powers for slavery and genocide more than the Africans. But there's really no point, is there? You are convinced that all non-whites want to blame whites and demand handouts, and you have demonstrated to my satisfaction that you will not, under any circumstances, give any facts or reasoning to the contrary any consideration at all.

C'est la vie.
 

captain morgan

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This thread is about marches in Britain, and I'm talking with a Brit.

Say, here's a little fun fact that I found in the OP.

Clues to the location of the march(s) was deftly hidden in the article.

A group of white supremacists converged on New York City Saturday to proclaim their "love for their race" and to protest "its destruction.” According to its website, the White Man March "will involve co-ordinated pro-white activity around the world."

The info is disclosed in the first sentence, so you have to don your Sherlock Holmes cap to garner actual location
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Say, here's a little fun fact that I found in the OP.

Clues to the location of the march(s) was deftly hidden in the article.

A group of white supremacists converged on New York City Saturday to proclaim their "love for their race" and to protest "its destruction.” According to its website, the White Man March "will involve co-ordinated pro-white activity around the world."

The info is disclosed in the first sentence, so you have to don your Sherlock Holmes cap to garner actual location

Happy St. Patrick's Day, cap.
 

captain morgan

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I understand, by the way, that there is no point in talking to you or Schwarzblatt about this. The two of you are constitutionally incapable of even entertaining the idea that a view different from yours could possibly have any validity. If that were otherwise, I might explain exactly why many non-whites blame the Euro-American powers for slavery and genocide more than the Africans. But there's really no point, is there? You are convinced that all non-whites want to blame whites and demand handouts, and you have demonstrated to my satisfaction that you will not, under any circumstances, give any facts or reasoning to the contrary any consideration at all.

C'est la vie.

Ironic.

It appears that you have taken strong offense to any perspective that falls outside your subjectively accepted norm... Talk about an incapacity to consider alternate views

I have offered a more macro view, to which your response is a cavalier, "well, that makes it OK". No it doesn't, nor have I, or anyone to date suggested otherwise.

Either you wish to look at the overall issue and discuss or your angle is to dissect and focus one solitary element and provide a pass to all others... The choice is entirely up to you.

Happy St. Patrick's Day, cap.


To you as well.

Hope you have an opportunity to enjoy the event in a manner that you enjoy the most
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Ironic.

It appears that you have taken strong offense to any perspective that falls outside your subjectively accepted norm... Talk about an incapacity to consider alternate views
Nope. I've stated several times that I neither want you (or other Europeans or Americans) to feel any guilt about what you had no part in. And I have repeatedly and explicitly opposed handouts of any kind. Which has had no effect whatsoever on the perception you and Schwarzblatt have of my views.

Further, I'm not offended, and nothing in my posts indicates offense, except in your preconceptions.

I have offered a more macro view, to which your response is a cavalier, "well, that makes it OK". No it doesn't, nor have I, or anyone to date suggested otherwise.
True, that was a bit snippy of me. But you must understand that as tired as you get of blame-laying by non-whites, I get equally tired of diversion.

Either you wish to look at the overall issue and discuss or you angle is to dissect and focus one solitary element and provide a pass to all others... The choice is entirely up to you.
I do look at the overall issue. I look at who owned the ships, who ran the slave markets, who passed the laws, and conclude that the situation of non-whites in America is mostly the responsibility of the Americans who did those things. You appear to have decided that, because some African tribes held slaves, and because some of those tribes sold slaves to the European and American slavers, that they are equally responsible for slavery, Jim Crow, and discrimination in the United States. As I've said, I strongly doubt there is anything I or anyone else can say that will change that. So, once again, happy St. Patrick's Day.

To you as well.

Hope you have an opportunity to enjoy the event in a manner that you enjoy the most
Shovelling snow. Yipee.
 

captain morgan

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Nope. I've stated several times that I neither want you (or other Europeans or Americans) to feel any guilt about what you had no part in. And I have repeatedly and explicitly opposed handouts of any kind. Which has had no effect whatsoever on the perception you and Schwarzblatt have of my views.

Further, I'm not offended, and nothing in my posts indicates offense, except in your preconceptions.

Personally, I don't feel guilt... Not to suggest that the issue is not important or that the past is the past, therefore should be forgotten... Quite the opposite frankly, dissect it and allow the sun to shine on this and lay bare the issue(s)


I do look at the overall issue. I look at who owned the ships, who ran the slave markets, who passed the laws, and conclude that the situation of non-whites in America is mostly the responsibility of the Americans who did those things. You appear to have decided that, because some African tribes held slaves, and because some of those tribes sold slaves to the European and American slavers, that they are equally responsible for slavery, Jim Crow, and discrimination in the United States. As I've said, I strongly doubt there is anything I or anyone else can say that will change that.

I'm 100% on the same page... The commercialization of the slave trade was formalized by the European and American slavers.

Traditional capture of enemies transformed them into a slave workforce once conquered... The last go-around via Europeans/Americans (surely Canadians as well) added an element that dehumanized these folks by turning them into a commodity.. In my view, that component was (and is) so reprehensible that it does merit a special tag of 'subhuman villain ' to be attached to those slavers.

Ultimately, the underlying motivation by the 'conquerors' means less than nothing to one that is forced into slavery, but the commodification of another human being is - well, the only words I can offer would be censored - but you hopefully get the picture

Shovelling snow. Yipee.

Crappy... Maybe that will be justification to imbibe in a green beer or 3 later
 

pgs

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The absurdity of your accusations were not worth responding to. Aboriginal people have a different culture and world view that is thousands of years old and the dominant culture see it as backwards and tries to impose their culture and world view on them. That is not racism but it might be culturalism.
Are all aboriginal cultures the same ?
Are all white cultures the same ?
Or are you stereotyping ?
 

Twila

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From the article
We will make it clear that we will not sit idly by as our race is discriminated against, mocked, displaced, and violently attacked, all of which amount to white genocide, according to the United Nation’s own definition of genocide. This is why one of our big messages, which will be displayed on many large banners, is ‘DIVERSITY’ = WHITE GENOCIDE.

I find this to be the part that makes the white pride parade something I find disturbing. When are whites discriminated against? mocked or violently attacked for being white? For their religion, for their affiliations, but for being white? really?
 

Cannuck

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Lol, again, you are not reading my posts properly.

You keep telling yourself that if it helps.

If you are making decisions that affect all these different groups, it makes a lot of sense to have people who have experience working within those different legal frameworks.

Of course but "experience working within those legal frameworks" was in no way required to sit on the board. You simply had to be aboriginal. All your wiggling doesn't change that simple fact.

If you can't acknowledge basic facts that are written into law, this isn't going to go anywhere.

Who said I can't. I'm sorry you can't understand the rather simple concept that I believe the laws are inherently racist in nature. Political correctness has, unfortunately trumped common sense. That is, however, entirely irrelevant to the situation I cited.

Are all aboriginal cultures the same ?
Are all white cultures the same ?
Or are you stereotyping ?

He's stereotyping. But racism is good if you mean well.
 

BornRuff

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Of course but "experience working within those legal frameworks" was in no way required to sit on the board. You simply had to be aboriginal. All your wiggling doesn't change that simple fact.

Who else has experience with that other than someone who is legally a native person in Canada?

Who said I can't. I'm sorry you can't understand the rather simple concept that I believe the laws are inherently racist in nature. Political correctness has, unfortunately trumped common sense. That is, however, entirely irrelevant to the situation I cited.

You can be opposed to the law but you can't ignore the law until it is changed.

As it stands, the law has different rules for people who are aboriginal, they have land within that basin specifically set aside for people who are aboriginal, and they have different land use rules for people who are aboriginal.

If you make decisions while being willfully ignorant of this fact is most likely going to result in decisions that are not good for people living under these different rules.
 

Cannuck

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Who else has experience with that other than someone who is legally a native person in Canada?

Your question raises two interesting questions. Do you think only an aboriginal can have experience with that and since I stated that experience was not a prerequisite for the position, are you assuming all aboriginals would have this experience?


You can be opposed to the law but you can't ignore the law until it is changed.

Tell that to Rosa Parks. Until more people speak out against the racism and bigotry within the system, nothing will change. If your best argument for the status quo is that "it's the law" then you really don't have much of an argument. The law used to allow for people to own slaves but people like me said the law was stupid and needs to change. It's a good thing they didn't listen to people like you.
 

BaalsTears

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Lol, you think that is what The Grande Ole Oprey or the Daughters of the American Revolution are celebrating?



So you are contrasting your ridiculous points with mine to highlight how stupid you are ;)

Mere rhetoric is unworthy of you.

It is, what we have in this thread is the bigots trying to deflect, and not doing a very good job of it at that. Note baals use of the term "uncle tom", but, of course, that isn't bigoted at all.

The reference is meant to be hurtful. I also refer to progressive whites as Uncle Toms because they aren't in touch with they don't value their origin. Again, it is meant to be hurtful.
 

BornRuff

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Your question raises two interesting questions. Do you think only an aboriginal can have experience with that and since I stated that experience was not a prerequisite for the position, are you assuming all aboriginals would have this experience?

How would you gain experience living as a Status Indian unless you are a Status Indian?

Tell that to Rosa Parks.

Oh **** off. Ignoring aboriginal people is not at all analogous to what Rosa Parks did.

Until more people speak out against the racism and bigotry within the system, nothing will change. If your best argument for the status quo is that "it's the law" then you really don't have much of an argument. The law used to allow for people to own slaves but people like me said the law was stupid and needs to change. It's a good thing they didn't listen to people like you.

Seriously, you have lost it. If you want to fight the law that makes Aboriginal people a separate class within society, fight that law. Don't fight to give them less say in what happens on their land and claim you are doing it to help them.