Barack Obama Failed

[BornRuff]

Umm. . . because even the systems strongest proponents admit it won't come anywhere near universal coverage? And because there are no cost controls?

If people won't accept "socialized medicine", then they will never have 100% coverage.

With this plan, by your estimates there will be 10's of millions more people covered by health insurance, which I do not think is a bad thing.

There are some cost controls involved. The costs that can be charged to consumers is limited, which will implicitly work it's way up the chain. But there is also nothing stopping them from implementing more directed cost saving measures as well in the future.

If you are going to be realistic, you are not going to have a single payer system at half the cost over night. Healthcare is approaching 1/5th of their entire GDP. Getting down to the levels of spending in other countries will also mean massive layoffs, which is the main bargaining chip that the insurance companies have. People want to get there, but it will take time.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

If people won't accept "socialized medicine", then they will never have 100% coverage.

Cop-out. The administration says that 5-8% will be ineligible.

There are some cost controls involved. The costs that can be charged to consumers is limited, which will implicitly work it's way up the chain. But there is also nothing stopping them from implementing more directed cost saving measures as well in the future.

I'm not aware of any limits on the costs that can be charged to consumers. Got a link?

If you are going to be realistic, you are not going to have a single payer system at half the cost over night. Healthcare is approaching 1/5th of their entire GDP. Getting down to the levels of spending in other countries will also mean massive layoffs, which is the main bargaining chip that the insurance companies have. People want to get there, but it will take time.

You need to get off "single payer." Most universal health care systems are mandatory insurance systems.

Here, you want a single, three-section piece of legislation that would cut health-care cost by about 10-12%? Piece of piss:

a) Within six months of the passage of this Act, the health insurance industry must devise and implement a common set of billing codes.

b) If within six months of the passage of this Act, the health insurance industry has not devised and implemented a common set of billing codes, the Department of Health and Human Services shall devise and implement a common set of billing codes.

c) No person shall be obligated to pay any health care provider or insurance company that does not use the common set of billing codes.

 

[BornRuff]

Cop-out. The administration says that 5-8% will be ineligible.

How would anyone be "ineligible" for healthcare under this new act?

I'm not aware of any limits on the costs that can be charged to consumers. Got a link?

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/

How would the Affordable Care Act prevent them from taking further measures to limit or reduce costs?

You need to get off "single payer." Most universal health care systems are mandatory insurance systems.

Here, you want a single, three-section piece of legislation that would cut health-care cost by about 10-12%? Piece of piss:

a) Within six months of the passage of this Act, the health insurance industry must devise and implement a common set of billing codes.

b) If within six months of the passage of this Act, the health insurance industry has not devised and implemented a common set of billing codes, the Department of Health and Human Services shall devise and implement a common set of billing codes.

c) No person shall be obligated to pay any health care provider or insurance company that does not use the common set of billing codes.

Stuff like this is certainly part of the problem, but do you have any research to back up the fact that it would save that much money?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

How would anyone be "ineligible" for healthcare under this new act?

Ineligible for Medicare, Medicaid, VA, IHS, or the health-care exchanges.

Politics Leaves Millions Uninsured & Ineligible for Affordable Care Act Benefits

The Obamacare Cliff

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/

How would the Affordable Care Act prevent them from taking further measures to limit or reduce costs?

Yeah, the "we'll fix it later" approach.

Stuff like this is certainly part of the problem, but do you have any research to back up the fact that it would save that much money?

I don't have the file here. It may be on another computer. I'll look around when I'm at leisure.

 

[BornRuff]

Ineligible for Medicare, Medicaid, VA, IHS, or the health-care exchanges.

Politics Leaves Millions Uninsured & Ineligible for Affordable Care Act Benefits

The Obamacare Cliff

They are in no way ineligible for the healthcare exchanges. They are not eligible for certain funding. The Affordable Care Act is not barring them from buying insurance.

If you read the article though, the people who are falling through the cracks are only falling through because the republican governors are refusing to accept federal money to provide healthcare to those people. The provisions are there to provide these people with insurance, but the state is blocking it from happening.

Yeah, the "we'll fix it later" approach.

The approach you seem to have is "If we don't fix everything as the same time it is a complete failure". There is such a thing as progress. There is value in making things better.

I don't have the file here. It may be on another computer. I'll look around when I'm at leisure.

What are the betting odds on if you will ever get around to this?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What are the betting odds on if you will ever get around to this?

Considering that I responded civilly to your question, and got this in return, the odds that I'll do anything to satisfy you just went down a lot.

 

[BornRuff]

Considering that I responded civilly to your question, and got this in return, the odds that I'll do anything to satisfy you just went down a lot.

It is a pretty well worn cop out in discussions like this, so I felt like poking fun.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

It is a pretty well worn cop out in discussions like this, so I felt like poking fun.

Given your increasing irrationality and incivility, we've probably taken this as far as it can productively go. So I'll participate in ritual insults up to three posts if you like, then I'm done.

 

[BornRuff]

Given your increasing irrationality and incivility, we've probably taken this as far as it can productively go. So I'll participate in ritual insults up to three posts if you like, then I'm done.

You can focus on bickering or you can focus on the discussion. That choice is up to you.

 

[Tonington]

A hard-hitting anti-Obamacare ad makes a claim that doesn’t add up

Boonstra said, “I’m paying a higher cost now as far as out of pocket costs and the coverage is just not the same.” But in the new ad she says “the out-of-pocket costs are so high, it’s unaffordable.”

The claim that the costs are now “unaffordable” appeared odd because, under Obamacare, there is an out-of-pocket maximum of $6,350 for covered expenses under an individual plan, after which the insurance plan pays 100 percent of covered benefits. The Blue Cross Blue Shield plans in Michigan that appear to match Boonstra’s plan, as described in local news reports, all have that limit.

Meanwhile, Boonstra told the Detroit News that her monthly premiums were cut in half, from $1,100 a month to $571. That’s a savings of $529 a month. Over the course of a year, the premium savings amounts to $6,348—just two dollars shy of the out-of-pocket maximum.​

The fact checker upgraded this to three Pinochios, which on their scale means 'Significant factual error and/or obvious contradictions.'

 

[gopher]

A hard-hitting anti-Obamacare ad makes a claim that doesn’t add up

Boonstra said, “I’m paying a higher cost now as far as out of pocket costs and the coverage is just not the same.” But in the new ad she says “the out-of-pocket costs are so high, it’s unaffordable.”

The claim that the costs are now “unaffordable” appeared odd because, under Obamacare, there is an out-of-pocket maximum of $6,350 for covered expenses under an individual plan, after which the insurance plan pays 100 percent of covered benefits. The Blue Cross Blue Shield plans in Michigan that appear to match Boonstra’s plan, as described in local news reports, all have that limit.

Meanwhile, Boonstra told the Detroit News that her monthly premiums were cut in half, from $1,100 a month to $571. That’s a savings of $529 a month. Over the course of a year, the premium savings amounts to $6,348—just two dollars shy of the out-of-pocket maximum.​

The fact checker upgraded this to three Pinochios, which on their scale means 'Significant factual error and/or obvious contradictions.'

Reminds of this blurb that appeared just the other day:




Canadian doctor schools U.S.Republican Senator on public health care

A Toronto doctor snidely held her own Tuesday after an obscure U.S. Senate subcommittee hearing suddenly turned into a quarrel over the purported deadliness of Canadian health care.

“On average, how many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year? Do you know?” Republican Senator Richard Burr asked at the end of a prickly exchange with Dr. Danielle Martin, vice president of Medical Affairs at Toronto’s Women’s College Hospital.

“I don’t, sir, but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all,” she said.


An hour into the hearing, Sen. Burr, an anti-Obamacare senator from North Carolina, zeroed in on the Canadian representative, Dr. Martin, to ask “why are doctors exiting the public system in Canada?”


she replied “there are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years.

Mr. Burr smiled and followed up with the question “what do you say to an elected official who goes to Florida and not the Canadian system to have a heart valve replacement?”“It’s actually interesting,” replied Dr. Martin, “because in fact the people who are the pioneers of that particular surgery … are in Toronto, at the Peter Munk Cardiac Center, just down the street from where I work.”


More put downs .... and thank you Canada also this story is big news in Canada.


Toronto doctor smacks down U.S. Senate question on Canadian waitlist deaths | National Post





Gee, I didn't hear or see this on local tv/radio. But it's good to see Canadians speak the TRUTH that so many right wing delusionals fail to see.

 

[Colpy]

Reminds of this blurb that appeared just the other day:




Canadian doctor schools U.S.Republican Senator on public health care

A Toronto doctor snidely held her own Tuesday after an obscure U.S. Senate subcommittee hearing suddenly turned into a quarrel over the purported deadliness of Canadian health care.

“On average, how many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year? Do you know?” Republican Senator Richard Burr asked at the end of a prickly exchange with Dr. Danielle Martin, vice president of Medical Affairs at Toronto’s Women’s College Hospital.

“I don’t, sir, but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all,” she said.


An hour into the hearing, Sen. Burr, an anti-Obamacare senator from North Carolina, zeroed in on the Canadian representative, Dr. Martin, to ask “why are doctors exiting the public system in Canada?”


she replied “there are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years.

Mr. Burr smiled and followed up with the question “what do you say to an elected official who goes to Florida and not the Canadian system to have a heart valve replacement?”“It’s actually interesting,” replied Dr. Martin, “because in fact the people who are the pioneers of that particular surgery … are in Toronto, at the Peter Munk Cardiac Center, just down the street from where I work.”


More put downs .... and thank you Canada also this story is big news in Canada.


Toronto doctor smacks down U.S. Senate question on Canadian waitlist deaths | National Post





Gee, I didn't hear or see this on local tv/radio. But it's good to see Canadians speak the TRUTH that so many right wing delusionals fail to see.

The TRUTH is that single payer is a whole LOT different than the mess that is Obamacare

 

[Dixie Cup]

Lol, there is a big difference between filibustering when you have 40 votes and when you have 41 votes. You are a smart guy, you know this. They prevented the house and the executive from making changes to the bill that they had wanted to make.

You also are smart enough to understand that refusal of the GOP to come to the table gave the fringes of the Democratic party lots of power.

So you honestly still think the GOP had no influence over how the bill turned out?

The GOP offered amendments to the law but Obama refused to even consider them. People keep saying that the GOP wanted to filibuster and block but they had no other alternative - Obama doesn't know the meaning of "compromise" and has yet to accept ANY of the GOP's recommendations. And he keeps sayin' that the GOP doesn't want to cooperate which is simply not true.


He's the one that won't cooperate - he's arrogant and refuses to listen to anyone including his own (Dems) and not only on the healthcare issue but on most of the critical issues that Americans are facing. Any of his failures are his and his alone.


If he really wanted all the uninsured Americans to have healthcare, all he had to do was address that issue and that issue only. What he's done instead is still have people uninsured - just not the same ones!! It's a shame really because of what could have been.


Unfortunately, those who voted for him can now see that he is not a good leader and I have been absolved in stating that he's likely going to be the worst President the Americans have ever had. But lesson learned....that's what happens when you choose charisma and good looks over intelligence and common sense!!


Canadians should take heed.


JMHO

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The GOP offered amendments to the law but Obama refused to even consider them.

You have an interesting notion of the U.S. legislative process.

 

[BornRuff]

The GOP offered amendments to the law but Obama refused to even consider them. People keep saying that the GOP wanted to filibuster and block but they had no other alternative - Obama doesn't know the meaning of "compromise" and has yet to accept ANY of the GOP's recommendations. And he keeps sayin' that the GOP doesn't want to cooperate which is simply not true.


He's the one that won't cooperate - he's arrogant and refuses to listen to anyone including his own (Dems) and not only on the healthcare issue but on most of the critical issues that Americans are facing. Any of his failures are his and his alone.

Can you give some examples of what the republicans said needed to happen if they were going to vote for it?

If he really wanted all the uninsured Americans to have healthcare, all he had to do was address that issue and that issue only. What he's done instead is still have people uninsured - just not the same ones!! It's a shame really because of what could have been.

What exactly does this mean? The whole point of this bill is to address people who are uninsured or under-insured. What would your proposal look like and how would it be different?

 

[gopher]

Re: Barack Obama SUCCEEDS

The GOP offered amendments to the law but Obama refused to even consider them. People keep saying that the GOP wanted to filibuster and block but they had no other alternative - Obama doesn't know the meaning of "compromise" and has yet to accept ANY of the GOP's recommendations. And he keeps sayin' that the GOP doesn't want to cooperate which is simply not true.


He's the one that won't cooperate - he's arrogant and refuses to listen to anyone including his own (Dems) and not only on the healthcare issue but on most of the critical issues that Americans are facing. Any of his failures are his and his alone.


If he really wanted all the uninsured Americans to have healthcare, all he had to do was address that issue and that issue only. What he's done instead is still have people uninsured - just not the same ones!! It's a shame really because of what could have been.


Unfortunately, those who voted for him can now see that he is not a good leader and I have been absolved in stating that he's likely going to be the worst President the Americans have ever had. But lesson learned....that's what happens when you choose charisma and good looks over intelligence and common sense!!


Canadians should take heed.


JMHO

Meanwhile, in the real world, the Affordable Care Act continues to generate results. More than 4 million people have obtained private health coverage through the new marketplaces, millions more have gotten cover through Medicaid (more on that in a second), and three million young people have been able to stay on their parents’ insurance.
A government report released yesterday detailed how the U.S. economy is already benefiting from the law: by driving up personal income and consumer spending. Between Medicaid expanding to cover millions more low-income people, and families who bought private insurance on the exchange and took advantage of the law’s generous tax credits, the ACA contributed a $33.9 billion jump in personal income for January alone.
Think about that for a second — a $33.9 billion jump in personal income in the first month of the law’s full implementation.
The report also found a bigger than expected increase in consumer spending as well — about $45.2 billion total for the month. The Wall Street Journal looked at the report and said that about three-quarters of this surprisingly positive growth came from those benefiting from the ACA.



50th Time's the Charm? | ThinkProgress



-------------------

The Affordable Care Act is turning into a major success, providing millions with health insurance coverage and ending the ability of insurance companies to abuse the system by finding ways to sell policies and then avoid paying out. Five million Americans have purchased health coverage through the exchanges, and this number will continue to increase. Millions more are purchasing higher quality coverage directly from insurance companies, benefiting from the expansion of Medicaid, or are now able to be covered on their parents’ insurance until age 26. No longer are people denied coverage, or have their coverage taken away, due to becoming sick or losing their jobs. In addition, Obamacare frees people from the “insurance trap” which forced people who otherwise do not need to work to continue working for insurance coverage, along with other overall benefits to the economy. The Congressional Budget Office Report, frequently distorted by Republicans, showed that the Affordable Care Act will reduce unemployment, help decrease the deficit, and allow more people to leave large corporations to start small businesses, further stimulating the economy.



Read more at Lying About Obamacare Not Working Out That Well For Republicans | The Moderate Voice​

Lying About Obamacare Not Working Out That Well For Republicans | The Moderate Voice







-----------



Unfortunately, you are only getting one side of the issue - every day we are constantly bombarded with the idea that ACA is a dismal failure. However, such reports are restricted to conservative web forums such as this one and the Fox network. By contrast, when you go to progressive websites and Facebook, you get a very different picture. You read of SUCCESS, not failure. A success that would have grown if red states had expanded Medicaid.

Note that TMV is a moderate website. Note the comments made on that board and on the progressive websites - BIG contrast with what you see on a daily basis here on CC.

​

 

[Colpy]

Face it Gopher.

Obama is a failure, at home and on the world stage.

The worst President in 100 years.

 

[El Barto]

Funny how he failed yet the republican party had nothing to do with it :roll:

 

[JLM]

Face it Gopher.

Obama is a failure, at home and on the world stage.

The worst President in 100 years.

We have to watch we don't let emotions obscure the facts, there were a few doozies back in the 20s..........Harding, Coolidge and Hoover!

 

[El Barto]

We have to watch we don't let emotions obscure the facts, there were a few doozies back in the 20s..........Harding, Coolidge and Hoover!

That is exactly it ..... way too much emotional reaction to get a rational response.