Canada's treatment of Khadr should be

[earth_as_one]

...The Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict is an effort to strengthen implementation of the Convention and increase the protection of children during armed conflicts.

The Protocol requires States who ratify it to “take all feasible measures” to ensure that members of their armed forces under the age of 18 do not take a direct part in hostilities. States must also raise the minimum age for voluntary recruitment into the armed forces from 15 years but does not require a minimum age of 18. The Protocol does, however, remind States that children under 18 are entitled to special protection and so any voluntary recruitment under the age of 18 must include sufficient safeguards. It further bans compulsory recruitment below the age of 18. States parties must also take legal measures to prohibit independent armed groups from recruiting and using children under the age of 18 in conflicts.

When ratifying the Protocol, States must make a declaration regarding the age at which national armed forces will permit voluntary recruitment, as well as the steps that States will take to ensure that such recruitment is never forced or coerced. This requirement is particularly important because the Optional Protocol does not establish age 18 as a minimum for voluntary recruitment into the armed forces—only for direct participation in armed conflict....
UNICEF - Convention on the Rights of the Child - Optional Protocol on the involvement of children in armed conflict

No one knows for certain who threw that grenade. Khadr's confession proves Americans torturers can make a 15 year old say whatever they like. Khadr's plea bargain proves Khadr would say anything to escape his torturers.

I'm not so certain charging soldiers with murder during a battle between armed belligerents sets a wise precedent. Out adversaries can do likewise regarding captured Canadian soldiers...


If I was an American, I would not exactly be proud that my country tortured confessions from a 15 year old. If my country did this, I'd be ashamed and disgusted. I'm ashamed and disgusted as it is just at the role the Canadian government played in Khadr's torture and ill treatment.

Khadr should have his say in court and the role of the Canadian government in Khadr's torture and extended incarceration at Gitmo should be closely examined in a judicial inquiry to determine if the Canadian government violated international and Canadian law. Also the Supreme Court of Canada determined that the Canadian government violated Khadr's Charter Rights and as such he is entitled to compensation.

 

[EagleSmack]

...The Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict is an effort to strengthen implementation of the Convention and increase the protection of children during armed conflicts.

The Protocol requires States who ratify it to “take all feasible measures” to ensure that members of their armed forces under the age of 18 do not take a direct part in hostilities. States must also raise the minimum age for voluntary recruitment into the armed forces from 15 years but does not require a minimum age of 18. The Protocol does, however, remind States that children under 18 are entitled to special protection and so any voluntary recruitment under the age of 18 must include sufficient safeguards. It further bans compulsory recruitment below the age of 18. States parties must also take legal measures to prohibit independent armed groups from recruiting and using children under the age of 18 in conflicts.

When ratifying the Protocol, States must make a declaration regarding the age at which national armed forces will permit voluntary recruitment, as well as the steps that States will take to ensure that such recruitment is never forced or coerced. This requirement is particularly important because the Optional Protocol does not establish age 18 as a minimum for voluntary recruitment into the armed forces—only for direct participation in armed conflict....
UNICEF - Convention on the Rights of the Child - Optional Protocol on the involvement of children in armed conflict

Well it looks like the "state" didn't do their job.Khadr was actively participating in operations

I'm not so certain charging soldiers with murder during a battle between armed belligerents sets a wise precedent. Out adversaries can do likewise regarding captured Canadian soldiers...

Oh and do tell how many soldiers survive captivity in Afghanistan? Last count was what... one?

If I was an American, I would not exactly be proud that my country tortured confessions from a 15 year old. If my country did this, I'd be ashamed and disgusted.

Not one bit ashamed or disgusted. No shred of guilt. He's lucky to be breathing.

Khadr should have his say in court and the role of the Canadian government in Khadr's torture and extended incarceration at Gitmo should be closely examined in a judicial inquiry to determine if the Canadian government violated international and Canadian law. Also the Supreme Court of Canada determined that the Canadian government violated Khadr's Charter Rights and as such he is entitled to compensation.

LMAO. You want to compensate him!

 

[earth_as_one]

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, including 15 year old Canadian children tortured by the US with the Canadian government's cooperation.

 

[EagleSmack]

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, including 15 year old Canadian children tortured by the US with the Canadian government's cooperation.

Nobody really knows what happened in GITMO know what I mean? Nobody really knooooows.

 

[Angstrom]

Our treatment of Khadr should be better then the Americans.
Cause Canadians have more class.

 

[Locutus]

There are five myths about Omar Khadr.


The first is that we had to take him into Canada. That's not true. A US jury sentenced him to 40 years in prison for the cold-blooded murder of a special forces medic name Christopher Speer.

It was only due to Canada's participation in a plea bargain that it was cut down to eight years, and then cut down further with a transfer to Canada's ultra-liberal parole laws.

Forty years down to perhaps two. So much for truth in sentencing.

But even if Khadr had not been convicted of murder, he had no right to simply leave Guantanamo Bay, any more than a German soldier interned at a Canadian prisoner of war camp in the Second World War had the right to simply head home in 1942.

Today's wars are against transnational terrorist groups. So the U.S. Congress and Supreme Court have approved a modified POW system. Anyone who is a member of al-Qaida or the Taliban can be detained until the war against them is over. No trial or charges needed. We didn't have trials for every German soldier. They were just kept until the war was over. That's U.S. law.

Canadian law could have kept Khadr out, too. The International Transfer of Offenders Act gives Public Safety Minister Vic Toews the discretion to keep out Canadian citizens, who are prisoners in other countries, if they'd pose a danger here at home. No prison transfer in Canadian history has been as dangerous as Khadr.

The second myth is that Khadr was a child soldier. Khadr wasn't a soldier - the Geneva Convention says that soldiers must be part of a chain of command, wear uniforms, carry their weapons openly and generally follow the laws of war. Murdering a medic in cold blood isn't war - it's terrorism.

But was Khadr a child? He was a few weeks shy of his 16th birthday when he murdered Speer.

We prosecute 15-year-old murderers in Canada. There is no jurisdiction in the world that doesn't. Even the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child says a child soldier is someone 14 or under.



More Here: Sun News : Khadr myths

 

[wizard]

... is the original poster asking whether or not canada should torture khadr? the answer is no ...

... canada's treatment of khadr should be in compliance with existing laws ...

 

[Locutus]

... is the original poster asking whether or not canada should torture khadr? the answer is no ...

... canada's treatment of khadr should be in compliance with existing laws ...

Nope. How it (young master Kadrs' treatment) should be viewed or scored by those playing at home.

 

[TenPenny]

The second myth is that Khadr was a child soldier. Khadr wasn't a soldier - the Geneva Convention says that soldiers must be part of a chain of command, wear uniforms, carry their weapons openly and generally follow the laws of war. Murdering a medic in cold blood isn't war - it's terrorism.

So, all the NATO forces in Afghanistan haven't been at war, since they weren't fighting soldiers. Why do we treat them as heroes, then? They haven't been to war. Strange, isn't it?

 

[wizard]

Nope. How it (young master Kadrs' treatment) should be viewed or scored by those playing at home.

... hmm, that makes no sense. the title refers to khadr's "treatment" by canada ...

 

[captain morgan]

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, including 15 year old Canadian children tortured by the US with the Canadian government's cooperation.

The Canadian criminal code also has much to say about those that go about murdering folks.

 

[earth_as_one]

[

... is the original poster asking whether or not canada should torture khadr? the answer is no ...

... canada's treatment of khadr should be in compliance with existing laws ...

The Supreme court of Canada determined that the Canadian government violated Khadr's Charter Rights.


Jan. 29, 2010
The Supreme Court of Canada has overturned lower-court orders that the Canadian government must try to return Omar Khadr to Canada from the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay — even though the court agrees his human rights have been violated and continue to be violated by Canadian officials.
Key events in the Omar Khadr case - Canada - CBC News

While Khadr might be an exceptional case, the Charter makes no exceptions regarding the Canadian government's obligation to respect the rights of all Canadians. The government would have to invoke the "Not withstanding" clause to grant themselves the legal ability to cooperate with foreign governments torturing Canadian children.

I oppose letting our government make exceptions to the Charter for any Canadians. The Charter either applies to every Canadian or it may as well apply to none. The government of the day will always invoke the power to deny Canadian citizens their Charter rights when it suits them and when Canadians need them most.

The Canadian criminal code also has much to say about those that go about murdering folks.

Three Arabs and two Afghans were also killed during that skirmish:
Firefight shows strong Al Qaeda persistence / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

If this was a murder scene, then how come Americans weren't charged with murder?

>>>>>>>wiki

In the early morning of July 27, 2002, a team composed of 19th Special Forces Group, the 505th Infantry Regiment and a "militia", composed of approximately twenty[50] Afghan fighters loyal to mercenary warlord Pacha Khan Zadran and led by Zadran's brother Kamal, had been sent from the airbase to the Ab Khail house in search of an elderly wheelchair-using man alleged to be the bomb-maker who had hidden anti-tank mines several weeks earlier.[47][50][51][52][53] The search turned up no evidence against the occupants of the house

While at the house, a report came in that a monitored satellite phone, possibly one owned by the Khadrs,[56] had just been used 300–600 metres from the group's present location.[50][53][54] Seven soldiers were sent to investigate the site of the phonecall.[47][50]

The group was led by Major Randy Watt, and also included XO Captain Mike Silver, Sgt Christopher Speer, Layne Morris and Master Sgt. Scotty Hansen, the three from the 19th Special Forces Group, Spc. Christopher J. Vedvick from the 505th and one other man.[47][50][57]

The firefight

Arriving at a series of mud huts and a granary filled with fresh straw surrounded by a 10-foot (3.0 m) stone wall with a green metal gate approximately 100 metres radius from the main hut, the Special Forces team saw children playing around the buildings[41][55][58][59] and an old man sleeping beneath a nearby tree.[50]

Seeing five "well-dressed" men sitting around a fire in the main residence,[59] with AK-47s visible in the room, Morris has claimed that he either approached and told the occupants, who had seen him, to open the front door[59] or that he snuck quietly back without being seen and a perimeter was set up around the complex.[50] Either way, the team waited 45 minutes for support from the soldiers searching the first residence, and at one point Morris chided the soldiers from the 82nd for setting up a defensive perimeter with their backs to the house, rather than properly covering the house itself.[50][53]

During this time, the elderly man sleeping beneath the tree awoke and began screaming loudly in Pashto, causing a number of local children to run over and interpret for the Americans, explaining that the man was "just angry". Morris took a photograph of the children standing on the road outside the compound.[50] A crowd of approximately a hundred local Afghans had gathered around the area to watch the incident unfold.[59] An Afghan militiaman was sent towards the house to demand the surrender of the occupants, but retreated under gunfire.[54]

Reinforcements from the 3rd Platoon of Bravo Company, 1st Battalion 505th Infantry Regiment arrived under the command of Captain Christopher W. Cirino,[58][60] bringing the total number of Americans and Afghan militia to about fifty.[61] Two of Zadran's militiamen were sent into the compound to speak with the inhabitants, and returned to the Americans' position and reported that the men inside claimed to be Pashtun villagers. They were told to return to the huts, and inform the occupants that the Americans wanted to search their house regardless of their affiliation.[60] Upon hearing this, the occupants of the hut opened fire, shooting both militiamen.[55][62]
Omar Khadr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[captain morgan]

[


Three Arabs and two Afghans were also killed during that skirmish:
Firefight shows strong Al Qaeda persistence / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

If this was a murder scene, then how come Americans weren't charged with murder?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr#The_firefight

Omar probably did it... He is an admitted terrorist and murderer afterall

 

[taxslave]

Omar probably did it... He is an admitted terrorist and murderer afterall

Nonono he is a freedom fighter.

 

[earth_as_one]

Obviously the answer eludes you two. Can anyone answer the question "If this was a murder scene, then how come Americans weren't charged with murder?"

 

[Machjo]

a) Studied by others as how to treat scumbags
b) Tossed in the 'who cares' department

or according to the Globe and Mail

c) A source of national embarrassment


anyway, from our friends at sda:

small dead animals: Next Time, Shoot to Kill


Next Time, Shoot to Kill

Oh, I don't know, maybe because the Pope didn't take up arms, commit war in civilian garb, or kill a medic while pretending to be wounded?

“There were, we are told, equal reasons why the current pope was not considered responsible for his membership in the Hitler Youth when he was precisely the same age (15),” he notes. “Certainly we did not try the Pope at Nuremburg, thank goodness, and it is fairly ludicrous that the US decided to try Omar Khadr as if he were an adult.”
​

Should have just shot the traitor.


Canada's treatment of Khadr should be a source of national embarrassment - The Globe and Mail

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kahdr legally a minor at the time?

However, Canada should not be held accountable for anything that some other country does to a Canadian citizen abroad. We are only responsible for him when he's on Canadian soil. Now that he's here, we need to consider his age at the time this was done.

And with War crimes, for teh sake of neutrality, we might even want to leave these to an international court.

This is a strange way of determining who is a child soldier...

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Article 38, (1989) proclaimed: "State parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of 15 years do not take a direct part in hostilities." However, people who are over the age of 15 but still remain under the age of 18 are still voluntarily able to take part in combat as soldiers.

People who HAVE NOT attained the age of 15 years. He did attain the age of 15.

Thanks for clarifying. Since this might be a politically toxic case though, Canada might want to just hand him over to the Hague, where if what you say is correct, he'd be found guilty. But at least then Canada could claim objectivity and seeing this happened outside Canadian jurisdiciton anyway it would seem appropriate anyway.

This was a kid who was taken by his father to the training camps. From a society and people where the Father/Male rules the roost, was there even a choice for him to stay or go? Then once at the camps, he's forced over and over again to listen to anti-American rhetoric and we're all surprised by what happened?

He did murder someone unfortunately, but considering the circumstances, and yes, he was a child soldier, it's no wonder he's considered a hero to some of the more fanatic Muslims. His treatment is proving exactly what they say about the west, especially the US. The US had a chance to actually alter some of that prejudice and they so dropped the ball on it.

In all honesty I hope he gets help to deal with the screw ups from Canada, the US and his own people have done to him. I doubt he'll ever be "normal" thanks to what he's been through, but it should be our duty to try to help him at least, since we pretty much didn't care beforehand. But IMO, we also shouldn't be surprised if, when he gets out, he goes sideways and does something and while we blame him, we should also look at how much blame we take ourselves for the situation we let happen.

Wouldnt a fair trial determine that? Hand him to the Hague for War Crimes and see what they say.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, including 15 year old Canadian children tortured by the US with the Canadian government's cooperation.

I'll agree with that. But only because of Canadian government cooperation. Otherwise, it would have been outside our jurisdiction.

Strictly speaking, this occured outside Canada's borders and so really ought to be dealt with at the Hague for a truly fair and unbiassed trial.

 

[earth_as_one]

The Canadian government failed in its obligation respect the Charter rights of a Canadian detained abroad. In this case... a 15 year old child.

Canadians should be able to expect that the Canadian government will insist foreign governments treat Canadians humanely in accordance with international law. Canadians should be able to expect that foreign government that torture Canadians will face strong diplomatic action.

Instead the Canadian government cooperated with Khadr's torturers. What's next? Should the Canadian government be able outsource torture of Canadian citizens to foreign governments?

 

[Machjo]

The Canadian government failed in its obligation respect the Charter rights of a Canadian detained abroad. In this case... a 15 year old child.

Canadians should be able to expect that the Canadian government will insist foreign governments treat Canadians humanely in accordance with international law. Canadians should be able to expect that foreign government that torture Canadians will face strong diplomatic action.

Not Canadian law. And that's how it should be. But Canada can also do that through the UN system.

[/quote]Instead the Canadian government cooperated with Khadr's torturers. What's next? Should the Canadian government be able outsource torture of Canadian citizens to foreign governments?[/QUOTE]

I agree with you here. Canada never should never have assisted in this abuse. Perhaps it could simply have advised the US send him to the Hague for a fair trial seeing the crime was not done in Canada nor the US for that matter.

 

[Durry]

Should send him to Afgan to serve out the balance of his 40 year sentence. That's where he committed the crime, that's where he should do the time!!

 

[captain morgan]

Obviously the answer eludes you two. Can anyone answer the question "If this was a murder scene, then how come Americans weren't charged with murder?"

I see.. So the presumption is that the Americans are already guilty of murdering those others even before the 'murder scene' can be ****ysed by the good folks at CSI Miami?