Iggy to Whip Gun Registration Bill

[Colpy]

Because the the people in the Jane-Finch corridor don't use long guns but for the ones that do they are arrested more quicker because of the important tool that the police have with the long gun database.

Nope.

Myth #4: Police investigations are aided by the registry.
Information contained in the registry is incomplete and unreliable. Due to the inaccuracy of the information, it cannot be used as evidence in court and the government has yet to prove that it has been a contributing factor in any investigation. Another factor is the dismal compliance rate (estimated at only 50%) for licensing and registration which further renders the registry useless. Some senior police officers have stated as such: “The law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered . . . the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.

TEN MYTHS ABOUT THE LONG-GUN REGISTRY

 

[lone wolf]

Because the the people in the Jane-Finch corridor don't use long guns but for the ones that do they are arrested more quicker because of the important tool that the police have with the long gun database.

Note the keywords: DON'T USE LONG GUNS. At whom is the Gun Registry aimed? They who use long guns. I'll bet none of those gang-bangers have provided any important tools - ever.

Gun Registry is just another way of saying: "Gimme the loot!"

They want to know who might have the ability to blast them into oblivion.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Hopefully, with this long-awaited glimpse of leadership from Mr. Michael Ignatieff M.P., the Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition, we may see the defeat of this unnecessary private member’s bill. (And as added security, of course, it would be extremely unlikely for a private member’s bill to be declared a motion of confidence, since Her Majesty’s Government for Canada has tried to pretend it is not sponsoring this bill.)

So this is how Ignatieff is going to define his leadership? By forcing his MP's to vote against a bill that has backing across the various parties... brilliant.

Igantief is a failure, this will only further cement his incompetence as a party leader.

 

[FiveParadox]

...ten myths as stated by Mr. Leon Benoit M.P. (Vegreville—Wainwright), and the link pulls directly from that member of Parliament’s personal Web site. I see a heck of a lot of spin in his “report” there.

 

[Colpy]

It should at this point in the debate be noted that Ms. Sheila Fraser, the Auditor General of Canada, has concluded that abolishing the long-gun portion of the registry would only save three million dollars per year. The “average” given above by DurkaDurka simply divides the program’s lifetime cost by the number of years it has run, but in fact, the program was much more expensive to set up than it is to maintain. The true waste of resources here would be abolishing the program now that it is being run efficiently and cost-effectively.

Hopefully, with this long-awaited glimpse of leadership from Mr. Michael Ignatieff M.P., the Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition, we may see the defeat of this unnecessary private member’s bill. (And as added security, of course, it would be extremely unlikely for a private member’s bill to be declared a motion of confidence, since Her Majesty’s Government for Canada has tried to pretend it is not sponsoring this bill.)

True enough......costs are much less than they were at set-up.

But the system is USELESS. Not admissible in court, regularly ignored by gun owners, it's only success has been in breeding a deep discontent and a attitude of scorn for the law in a large group of Canadians.

Ignatieff's ideas on fixing the problem are completely ludicrous.........Right, we have NOT been cowed by threats of long prison terms, now this idiot thinks we will be brought into the fold by threats with "the soft pillow"??????

Registration means eventual confiscation......the history of gun registration in the world in general, and in Canada in particular makes this so very obvious.......this can only be denied by those incapable of linear thought, or with a political agenda that does NOT include the ownership of arms by the people.

The Liberals already have on their policy platform a ban on all handguns and all semi-automatic firearms...........

Ignatief playing "nice" with gun owners is the wolf in sheep's clothing, believe me.

 

[FiveParadox]

So this is how Ignatieff is going to define his leadership? By forcing his MP's to vote against a bill that has backing across the various parties...

Apparently it doesn’t have “backing across the various parties” if the bill is opposed by the Liberal Party of Canada, and a majority of members of the Bloc Québécois and the New Democratic Party of Canada. And yes, it is a glimpse of leadership for the Leader of the Opposition to at long last insist on a degree of party discipline on this issue; Mr. Ignatieff is not seeking to simply defeat the bill and leave it at that, but rather, the Leader of the Opposition is proposing changes to the registry system to respond to some of the concerns that exist regarding the program’s administration.

 

[Colpy]

...ten myths as stated by Mr. Leon Benoit M.P. (Vegreville—Wainwright), and the link pulls directly from that member of Parliament’s personal Web site. I see a heck of a lot of spin in his “report” there.

And any other citations made that support the position of gun owners can be challenged on the grounds they support gun owners...

Any citations made that support the position of anti-gun people can be challenged on the grounds they support the anti-gun position...

Try reading the argument, and pointing out errors in fact or difference of opinion in philosophy.....

The bloody registry is not admissible in court.

The police use of the registry is fantastically over-blown by automatic hits, and hits made for regular administrative purposes.

Find me a crime solved by the registry.

Challenge THOSE, not the source

 

[DurkaDurka]

Apparently it doesn’t have “backing across the various parties” if the bill is opposed by the Liberal Party of Canada, and a majority of members of the Bloc Québécois and the New Democratic Party of Canada. And yes, it is a glimpse of leadership for the Leader of the Opposition to at long last insist on a degree of party discipline on this issue; Mr. Ignatieff is not seeking to simply defeat the bill and leave it at that, but rather, the Leader of the Opposition is proposing changes to the registry system to respond to some of the concerns that exist regarding the program’s administration.

The Bill is opposed by Ignatieff, not the Liberal Party of Canada. Unfortunately, Ignatieff is pulling some dicatorish maneuvers on a private members bill and forcing liberal MP's to vote along side his hair brained idea.

 

[Colpy]

Apparently it doesn’t have “backing across the various parties” if the bill is opposed by the Liberal Party of Canada, and a majority of members of the Bloc Québécois and the New Democratic Party of Canada. And yes, it is a glimpse of leadership for the Leader of the Opposition to at long last insist on a degree of party discipline on this issue; Mr. Ignatieff is not seeking to simply defeat the bill and leave it at that, but rather, the Leader of the Opposition is proposing changes to the registry system to respond to some of the concerns that exist regarding the program’s administration.

uh-huh.....wink, wink, nudge, nudge....and the second they have power they'll be drawing up a LARGE list of firearms to ban, seize, and destroy.....without compensation.

It is part of their policy platform.

How STUPID would we have to be to believe the Liberals have gone all soft on gun-owners???

 

[FiveParadox]

DurkaDurka, you make it sound as though every Liberal member of the Commons save for Ignatieff wants to vote to abolish the registry — whereas, in actuality, it is a minority of Liberal members who had wanted to vote with the Government. In any event, as I mentioned, it is not simply a move to defeat the bill; it is a move to introduce changes to the registry that would make improvements to respond to some of the concerns that have been expressed by rural Canadians.

And Colpy: Almost as stupid as Canadians would have to be to think that the Conservatives have moved to the centre of the field.

 

[Liberalman]

TEN MYTHS ABOUT THE LONG-GUN REGISTRY

Conservative Propaganda Web Site

the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.

He said that seven years ago but the OPP accesses the long gun database regularly.

 

[FiveParadox]

Conservative Propaganda Web Site

Published by the same member of the Conservative Party of Canada who abruptly adjourned a committee meeting and stormed out of the room when a witness offered testimony critical of the Government’s security integration policy with the United States of America. He left the opposition members to continue the meeting under their Liberal Party of Canada vice-chair. I imagine this was but one of the strategies tought to Conservative chairpersons in their “How to Disrupt Parliamentary Proceedings” handbook.

 

[DurkaDurka]

DurkaDurka, you make it sound as though every Liberal member of the Commons save for Ignatieff wants to vote to abolish the registry — whereas, in actuality, it is a minority of Liberal members who had wanted to vote with the Government. In any event, as I mentioned, it is not simply a move to defeat the bill; it is a move to introduce changes to the registry that would make improvements to respond to some of the concerns that have been expressed by rural Canadians.

And Colpy: Almost as stupid as Canadians would have to be to think that the Conservatives have moved to the centre of the field.

Eight Liberal MP's voted for the legislation, Paradox, so apparently there is some Liberal Support for the legislation. The changes Ignatief are proposing are a joke and do not address the problem. Removing fee's and changing non-compliance to a ticket-able offense are a distraction from the real problem, the reigistry has been a colossal waste of money and it does not prevent or solve crimes.

 

[Colpy]

And Colpy: Almost as stupid as Canadians would have to be to think that the Conservatives have moved to the centre of the field.

Five....I'm surprized at you......you are not doing well arguing points of fact today......just arrogance, innuendo and smear, no attempt to deal with the facts....that is unlike you.

I know it is difficult to defend the indefensible.......perhaps withdrawal from the field would be your best option.

 

[Colpy]

Published by the same member of the Conservative Party of Canada who abruptly adjourned a committee meeting and stormed out of the room when a witness offered testimony critical of the Government’s security integration policy with the United States of America. He left the opposition members to continue the meeting under their Liberal Party of Canada vice-chair. I imagine this was but one of the strategies tought to Conservative chairpersons in their “How to Disrupt Parliamentary Proceedings” handbook.

And this has WHAT to do with gun registration???

More misdirection???

See the post below.

 

[FiveParadox]

You cannot call eight Liberal members a party endorsement of a bill, DurkaDurka.

One of the concerns expressed by rural Canadians was that the task of registration was an onerous and expensive one, and this is one of the registry’s weaknesses that the Leader of the Opposition is attempting to correct legislatively. However, in order to make these improvements, and to make the registry even more effective in the enhancement of public safety, the long-gun portion of the registry needs to survive this misguided private member’s bill. In any event, let’s be honest — this private member’s bill would have a challenging time moving up through the cooler heads in the Honourable the Senate of Canada.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Published by the same member of the Conservative Party of Canada who abruptly adjourned a committee meeting and stormed out of the room when a witness offered testimony critical of the Government’s security integration policy with the United States of America. He left the opposition members to continue the meeting under their Liberal Party of Canada vice-chair. I imagine this was but one of the strategies tought to Conservative chairpersons in their “How to Disrupt Parliamentary Proceedings” handbook.

the Conservative way, all right, if we don’t agree, we do not discuss further, my way or the highway, time to prorogue, so we don’t have to answer further questions.

“How to Disrupt Parliamentary Proceedings” handbook, ya that is them, the big
Hypocrites..

 

[FiveParadox]

And this has WHAT to do with gun registration???

This very same member is the one who you’re depending on to defend this bill to abolish the registry (which is now, at this time, extremely cost-effective contrary to popular Conservative belief; it only costs three million dollars annually, per our Auditor General), and he has absolutely no credibility; he is perhaps one of the most confused spindoctors of the Conservative Party.

Let’s face it: Police organisations have heralded the usefulness of the registry, as have many other organisations and prominent Canadians throughout the country. With the low cost of the registry, it makes sense that this information should continue to be available to our police forces.

 

[lone wolf]

the Conservative way, all right, if we don’t agree, we do not discuss further, my way or the highway, time to prorogue, so we don’t have to answer further questions.

“How to Disrupt Parliamentary Proceedings” handbook, ya that is them, the big
Hypocrites..

Five threads, ... all Liberal Logic as defined by Socks...

 

[DurkaDurka]

You cannot call eight Liberal members a party endorsement of a bill, DurkaDurka.

One of the concerns expressed by rural Canadians was that the task of registration was an onerous and expensive one, and this is one of the registry’s weaknesses that the Leader of the Opposition is attempting to correct legislatively. However, in order to make these improvements, and to make the registry even more effective in the enhancement of public safety, the long-gun portion of the registry needs to survive this misguided private member’s bill. In any event, let’s be honest — this private member’s bill would have a challenging time moving up through the cooler heads in the Honourable the Senate of Canada.

Eight Liberals, Twelve NDP & One Independent combined with the conservative MP's equals a majority. I hope Harper makes this vote a non-confidence one, easy way to pick up more seats at Ignatief's expense.

I'm pretty sure Ignatieff hasn't the slightest clue as to what rural folks want, he is out of touch with regular Canadians let alone rural one's.

The fact is Ignatieff has no real plan for the registry and this is a knee jerk reaction to keep MP's inline & and to protect a Liberal Pet Project, regardless of cost or how useless it is.

Conservatives have a majority in the Senate, no?