It's time to bring the death penalty back!

[Francis2004]

It doesn’t work that way with death penalty opponents, Francis.

When I lived in Utah, there was a prominent death penalty case in Utah, Gary Gilmour. This was more than 30 years ago. It attracted national attention. Gilmour admitted his guilt, he refused to appeal the death sentence; he actually wanted to be put to death.

That didn’t make any difference to death penalty opponents, they kept filing appeal after appeal on his behalf. Of course, he refused to participate in any appeals but death penalty opponents were able to prolong the execution considerably without Gilmour’s help (they would have been able to prolong it even further with his cooperation of course).

Even if somebody wants to be put to death, there will still be delays due to appeals, although obviously not as much as if the criminal is a willing participant.

Plus, you are overlooking the court challenges. Death penalty even in the form you suggest (a voluntary death penalty) will probably be ruled unconstitutional by the courts.

It doesn't work that way because there are too many loopholes and people know it.. Sympathizers and people who want justice properly will know they can still walk the street with signs and get attention..

If it was put to rest it may never go away totally but it would die down ( no pun intended )..

If you want to believe nothing will ever change it never will.. Are you sure, you're not a religious right wing person ?

 

[JLM]

It would be interesting to know, what the answer would be,
if all of the killers were given a choice, either their
entire life in prison, or a lethal injection, 'prisoners
choice.'
I'll bet that only a very very few would choose lethal
injection. Killers don't have much value for anothers
life, but very high value on their own, they are mostly
shallow thinking people, who don't have any respect for
their fellow man, or for the law of the land, or, for
fairness and kindness when interacting with others, I
know there would be exceptions, but in my opinion that
would be the majority.

YOur profound wisdom shines through again, Talloola - no chance of your passing some of it around is there.....................:smile:

 

[JLM]

Considering that surveys are based on five thousand people or less your statistics are flawed.

They should include that question in the census and then the death sentence would be a reality

My figure was just a wild "ballpark" guess based on the number of dissenters I see here. NOw you tell us what the real figure is. :smile:

 

[JLM]

That is not 'not agreeing with death penalty', JLM. Either you agree with death penalty or you don't, and you seem to agree with it. State taking anybody's life is wrong.

I think I've made it abundantly clear that I do NOT agree with the death penalty EXCEPT under extenuating circumstances just as I don't agree with amputating a man's leg except under extenuating circumstances.

 

[JLM]

"All the repeat murderers should be released into death and let God deal with them." I'd amend that to "MOST". There is an exception to every rule.

 

[L Gilbert]

I don't agree with the death penalty. I wonder how many in the US on death row are really innocent?? I couldn't in good conscience send someone to the death chamber only to find out later, that he was innocent. (re: Milgard et al)

As for "life", it depends on perspective - "life" as in "living" or "life" as in behind bars! The latter certainly isn't what Canada is about at this time. That's what needs changing not bringing back the death penalty.

JMO

That's pretty much the way we feel in this house, too, DixieCup.

A little info on the side: sorry to sidetrack the thread but it is sort of related.
Just watched a W5 episode where the Vancouver City Police talked about a study they had done. The study basically found that the more crimes someone committed the lighter sentences they got after being caught. The stats were that 87% of chronic offenders were given lighter sentences and only 6 or 7% got sentences of more than a year.
One criminal committed over 1000 breakins according to him, and he was convicted more than 40 times. He stole to feed drug habit. He turned himself in because he thinks jailtime will dry him out.
A retired judge thinks his ex-colleagues are mocking our legal system.

 

[JLM]

"Really? I would like to see them try. House of Commons will vote it down handily, even many Conservative MPs will vote against death penalty (this ain’t the USA, here even many Conservatives are opposed to death penalty)."

Where do you find this nonsense? - if a poll were taken of Liberal voters re the death penalty vs. Conservative voters re the death penalty the results would be virtually a dead heat. You have to stop depending on "National Inquirer" for your sources.

 

[JLM]

Why must there be a comparion in criteria we would use if we had the death penalty to criteria that exists in the U.S. The U.S. is far too lenient with these scumbags (e.g. Scott Peterson is just having a ball on death row- all the amenities that most OAP don't get)

 

[L Gilbert]

"Really? I would like to see them try. House of Commons will vote it down handily, even many Conservative MPs will vote against death penalty (this ain’t the USA, here even many Conservatives are opposed to death penalty)."

Where do you find this nonsense? - if a poll were taken of Liberal voters re the death penalty vs. Conservative voters re the death penalty the results would be virtually a dead heat. You have to stop depending on "National Inquirer" for your sources.

I don't think it's National Enquirer, JLM, but rather Reader's Digest.
BTW, he is obsessed with the USA and comparing Canada to it.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It doesn't work that way because there are too many loopholes and people know it.. Sympathizers and people who want justice properly will know they can still walk the street with signs and get attention..

If it was put to rest it may never go away totally but it would die down ( no pun intended )..

Quite so, there are many loopholes. And there is no way you can plug all the loopholes. Particularly when it comes to something like the death penalty, there will always be smart lawyers in USA to make life difficult for proponents of death penalty, to make death penalty a very difficult and very expensive punishment.

If you want to believe nothing will ever change it never will.. Are you sure, you're not a religious right wing person ?

I have been called all kinds of thoroughly vile names here, but I have never been called that before.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I think I've made it abundantly clear that I do NOT agree with the death penalty EXCEPT under extenuating circumstances just as I don't agree with amputating a man's leg except under extenuating circumstances.

"I do not agree, except......", is same as saying that "I agree with some restrictions." Depends upon how you phrase it.

As to amputating, I would say that I agree with amputation if it is medically necessary and if patient agrees to it.

When you say you don't agree and then give exceptions, then you are agreeing. Indeed, that is what all the supporters of death penalty say; nobody says that they want to sentence all the murders to death. Your position is the classic pro death penalty position.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

My figure was just a wild "ballpark" guess based on the number of dissenters I see here. NOw you tell us what the real figure is. :smile:

That is easily found out. Roughly 20% of Canadians support death penalty. This was the latest poll I could find (2007), I don’t expect too many polls about death penalty are conducted these days.

Conservatives find slim support for death penalty - thestar.com

Support was highest in Alberta (of course) at 33%, lowest in Newfoundland, at 17%. Ontario came at 21%. Incidentally JLM, 21 % Ontarians support your position, they think that some convicts should be put to death.

Again, don’t judge the country by this forum, this is a heavily conservative forum.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"Really? I would like to see them try. House of Commons will vote it down handily, even many Conservative MPs will vote against death penalty (this ain’t the USA, here even many Conservatives are opposed to death penalty)."

Where do you find this nonsense? - if a poll were taken of Liberal voters re the death penalty vs. Conservative voters re the death penalty the results would be virtually a dead heat. You have to stop depending on "National Inquirer" for your sources.

The result will NOT be a dead heat; more conservatives support death penalty than liberals do, many more in fact. Look at the poll I put up in my previous post. Support for death penalty is strongest in Alberta, which is heavily conservative.

They find the same thing in USA; support for death penalty is more among Republicans than among Democrats. Among religious right, the support may run at 80 or 90%, I don’t know.

It is very much a conservative issue. You hold many conservative positions JLM, but due to some reason, you don’t like to be called a conservative, I don’t’ know why.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Again, don’t judge the country by this forum, this is a heavily conservative forum.

Hahahahahahahahahahahah.....(deep breath) Hahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!

Conservatives say that about Liberals, & Liberals about Conservatives, and
transfers over to the debates on Religion & Global Warming & Palestine &
Israel and so on and so forth...

There's actually a pretty fair mix of folks here and the bias of lop-sidedness on
this is pretty funny if you hear it from ALL camps regularly...and trust me, I do.

No offence meant here...but I hear this all the time...from all directions.

Every Camp of Thought thinks they're fighting the good fight from the
position of the minority....all of them...

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"Really? I would like to see them try. House of Commons will vote it down handily, even many Conservative MPs will vote against death penalty (this ain’t the USA, here even many Conservatives are opposed to death penalty)."

Where do you find this nonsense? - if a poll were taken of Liberal voters re the death penalty vs. Conservative voters re the death penalty the results would be virtually a dead heat. You have to stop depending on "National Inquirer" for your sources.

Here is a typical poll from USA. Almost all the polls show the same trend, support is much stronger among Republicans than among Democrats.

ABCNEWS.com : Poll: Death Penalty Remains in Favor

"Support for the death penalty runs highest among Republicans (77 percent in favor), but it’s also supported by majorities of independents (62 percent) and Democrats (55 percent) alike."

In general, conservatives support death penalty much more than liberals do. I know you don’t like it pointed out JLM, but your position on death penalty is definitely a conservative one.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"Really? I would like to see them try. House of Commons will vote it down handily, even many Conservative MPs will vote against death penalty (this ain’t the USA, here even many Conservatives are opposed to death penalty)."

Where do you find this nonsense? - if a poll were taken of Liberal voters re the death penalty vs. Conservative voters re the death penalty the results would be virtually a dead heat. You have to stop depending on "National Inquirer" for your sources.

Anyway, I have given two opinion polls to support my viewpoint, you were simply spouting off your mouth without any evidence.

So let me ask you, where do you find this nonsense (that as many liberals support death penalty as conservatives do)? Your famous anecdotal evidence again? Do you perhaps know 100 liberals and 100 conservatives who support death penalty?

 

[JLM]

"I do not agree, except......", is same as saying that "I agree with some restrictions." Depends upon how you phrase it.

As to amputating, I would say that I agree with amputation if it is medically necessary and if patient agrees to it.

When you say you don't agree and then give exceptions, then you are agreeing. Indeed, that is what all the supporters of death penalty say; nobody says that they want to sentence all the murders to death. Your position is the classic pro death penalty position.

I've made my position clear, if it has to be a YES or NO, I am not in favour- however that would be a very naive stand to take. Is there nothing that you don't argue about? AS for the 20% figure you quote, that is one statistic I would definitely question.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I've made my position clear, if it has to be a YES or NO, I am not in favour- however that would be a very naive stand to take. Is there nothing that you don't argue about? AS for the 20% figure you quote, that is one statistic I would definitely question.

Now why doesn't that surprise me? You always question statistics when they don't agree with your preconceived views. To hear you speak, your opinion (without any support) is always right, statistics are always wrong.

And in spite of your protestations, you are very much in favor of death penalty (I don't know why you are evidently ashamed of your position, why not come out and say that you favor death penalty under some circumstances?).

Almost every death penalty supporter says that he supports death penalty only for certain kind of crimes. How is their position different from yours?

 

[TenPenny]

Hmmm....coming from the master of 'what I wrote wasn't what I meant because in my world the words mean something different each time I write them', I'd take that post as high praise.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Hmmm....coming from the master of 'what I wrote wasn't what I meant because in my world the words mean something different each time I write them', I'd take that post as high praise.

I am not aware that I praised you in any manner. But if you want to take something I said as praise, be my guest.