I love this part.......
from The History of Sex by Reay Tannahill, pages 354-355
Britain and Canada did not grant voting rights to women for another half-century.
Woman Suffrage......in the USA
- Thread starter Colpy
- Start date
Britain and Canada did not grant voting rights to women for another half-century.
Rights takes a long time to come even after a person is entitled to it because people that have power do not want to give it up or share it.
Because of social status, core values and religion sometime it takes generations before power is handed over to the affected group.
Laws have to change so the group have the same rights as the rest of society and unfortunately this can take time.
I will give you three examples of this which is Black rights in America and Women rights and Gay rights.
Afro-Americans or Blacks in the beginning came to America in slave ships as property of the plantation owners in the Deep South.
The much-coveted American Constitution never included slaves in it because slaves were not considered citizens but mere animals like cattle.
As time went on amendments were added to the Constitution where slaves got rights and America was divided into two zones North where blacks had more rights and South where they were slaves.
It took a civil war to end slavery and another 150 years to get more equality by means of a near revolution in the 1960s during the civil rights movement.
Women got the right to vote in the early 1900s and it took them until the 1960s to want more and their war cry was the “burning of the bra” now they are in position of power.
The Gay rights were hard fought as well and before 1960s they were considered a sexual deviant usually locked away in mental institutions.
I guess these groups have to thank the Vietnam War, and the Hippie movement in the 1960s, where they lived in communions smoking their weed and without realizing it, they were redefining society.
Most of the Hippies were students in college and university, where they eventually got into positions of power after graduation where they could cause change more easily.
Unfortunately in today’s world it usually takes civil action to get more rights this is why other countries of the world are dealing with civil unrest and when you look at the grievances of the different groups you see that this could have been solved years ago.
Just like the women’s right to vote if they were given immediate attention with utmost urgency this would have been settled years ago
Because of social status, core values and religion sometime it takes generations before power is handed over to the affected group.
Laws have to change so the group have the same rights as the rest of society and unfortunately this can take time.
I will give you three examples of this which is Black rights in America and Women rights and Gay rights.
Afro-Americans or Blacks in the beginning came to America in slave ships as property of the plantation owners in the Deep South.
The much-coveted American Constitution never included slaves in it because slaves were not considered citizens but mere animals like cattle.
As time went on amendments were added to the Constitution where slaves got rights and America was divided into two zones North where blacks had more rights and South where they were slaves.
It took a civil war to end slavery and another 150 years to get more equality by means of a near revolution in the 1960s during the civil rights movement.
Women got the right to vote in the early 1900s and it took them until the 1960s to want more and their war cry was the “burning of the bra” now they are in position of power.
The Gay rights were hard fought as well and before 1960s they were considered a sexual deviant usually locked away in mental institutions.
I guess these groups have to thank the Vietnam War, and the Hippie movement in the 1960s, where they lived in communions smoking their weed and without realizing it, they were redefining society.
Most of the Hippies were students in college and university, where they eventually got into positions of power after graduation where they could cause change more easily.
Unfortunately in today’s world it usually takes civil action to get more rights this is why other countries of the world are dealing with civil unrest and when you look at the grievances of the different groups you see that this could have been solved years ago.
Just like the women’s right to vote if they were given immediate attention with utmost urgency this would have been settled years ago
So, Liberalman, you acknowledge how far ahead of us the wild men of the old west were.....
BTW, the second territory to grant female suffrage was Utah, three months after Wyoming.
BTW, the second territory to grant female suffrage was Utah, three months after Wyoming.
I always liked WY. It's not overloaded with people, wonderful scenery, mountains, rivers, trees, etc. Not sure about it's laws and treatment of aboriginal women, but I bet I'd get by. Canada has some stinkers for laws and I am still here. WY couldn't be much different I think.
Women in the middle east and China as well as many other cultures will take much the same lengths of time or more, to get full and equal rights with men, if ever. Societies demonstrating centuries of a social cultural understanding may not quickly be willing to be fully westernized.
Our countries, in their eyes have not shown well how any new "respect" as we put it, improves a culture over time. Women may have a larger part in this area or that, yes, however what "we" have shown to do with the change over time could be seen as a result of our countries internal downfall, externally.
You see in many of the worlds "outside eyes", our moral senses have devolved after being shown to have diminished the "light within", scruples, a sense of right and wrong, or conscience. Many countries speculate the harm therefore these mere "legal rights" can have.
In theocracies and also godless cultures for different reasons of course, there seems little to benefit with many legalisms except to show the world a "modernization". This modernization is considered at a great expense, for many, a decline in cultural and moral values..
Pray for us all. It is all His Plan!:fish:
Our countries, in their eyes have not shown well how any new "respect" as we put it, improves a culture over time. Women may have a larger part in this area or that, yes, however what "we" have shown to do with the change over time could be seen as a result of our countries internal downfall, externally.
You see in many of the worlds "outside eyes", our moral senses have devolved after being shown to have diminished the "light within", scruples, a sense of right and wrong, or conscience. Many countries speculate the harm therefore these mere "legal rights" can have.
In theocracies and also godless cultures for different reasons of course, there seems little to benefit with many legalisms except to show the world a "modernization". This modernization is considered at a great expense, for many, a decline in cultural and moral values..
Pray for us all. It is all His Plan!:fish:
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I believe Wyoming did so in part to bring in women to a harsh desolate landscape. Many men were hardy and able if they braved the winter seasons. Attracting women with equal rights to vote, not quite equal pay back then, but a voice in local and regional government was an incentive for activists, generally of hardy and able stock themselves.
Interesting you note some "stinker laws" despite womens vote all these years!
It is nice country, at least it was, till Dick Cheney was born! Leave us all relax now, it is His Plan:fish:
We need to hear from the Reverend Cliffy on this, I could defer. LOL!!!!
If I lived in Malaysia or Nepal or Ghana under much the same conditions as I do here (rural area, raising chickens, gardening, picking fruit off the trees, etc), why the hell would I want to be westernized let alone be quickly westernized? People there have their own lives, you know. They have wonderful cultures of their own.
???
The Vatican. I think it's a theocratic country and I haven't heard many complaints from people that live there. The Swiss have a pretty secular country (secular is as close to atheist as available, I think, because there are simply more believers by a huge percentage than unbelievers) and we don't hear a lot of grief from there either.
It sounds like a viable hypothesis to me. I would think that those hardy and able men were getting tired of humping their cattle and sheep by then. I wonder if that was part of His plan too.;-)
You were perplexed AnnaG when I said:
Our countries, in their eyes have not shown well how any new "respect" as we put it, improves a culture over time. Women may have a larger part in this area or that, yes, however what "we" have shown to do with the change over time could be seen as resulting in our own countries internal downfall...
-externally.
You see in many of the worlds "outside eyes", our moral senses have de-volved aand shown to have diminished the "light within", scruples, a sense of right and wrong, or conscience. Many countries now speculate the harm therefore these mere "legal rights" can have.
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Other cultures are not the only peoples questioning our "new" values.
Serious conservative scholars like Allan Carlson and F. Carolyn Graglia have maintained that the change of women’s role, from being primarily mothers to self-defined professionals, has been a social disaster that continues to take its toll on the American family. Rather than being the culminating point of any "Western Christian gentility" the movement of women into commerce and politics may be seen as exactly the opposite, the descent by increasingly disconnected individuals into social chaos.
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Interesting and debatable.
You mentioned that "The Vatican. I think it's a theocratic country and I haven't heard many complaints from people that live there. The Swiss have a pretty secular country (secular is as close to atheist as available, I think, because there are simply more believers by a huge percentage than unbelievers) and we don't hear a lot of grief from there either."
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In response.
from
Women's suffrage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Vatican City — "No suffrage for women; while most men in the Holy See also lack the vote, all persons with suffrage in Papal conclaves (the Cardinals) are male."
The Swiss of course will always allow anything anywhere anytime! lol !!! Sorry, but I don't think the Royal Guard has made an arrest in years! smile. :fish:
Vellcomen!
Our countries, in their eyes have not shown well how any new "respect" as we put it, improves a culture over time. Women may have a larger part in this area or that, yes, however what "we" have shown to do with the change over time could be seen as resulting in our own countries internal downfall...
-externally.
You see in many of the worlds "outside eyes", our moral senses have de-volved aand shown to have diminished the "light within", scruples, a sense of right and wrong, or conscience. Many countries now speculate the harm therefore these mere "legal rights" can have.
**********************************************
Other cultures are not the only peoples questioning our "new" values.
Serious conservative scholars like Allan Carlson and F. Carolyn Graglia have maintained that the change of women’s role, from being primarily mothers to self-defined professionals, has been a social disaster that continues to take its toll on the American family. Rather than being the culminating point of any "Western Christian gentility" the movement of women into commerce and politics may be seen as exactly the opposite, the descent by increasingly disconnected individuals into social chaos.
****************************************
Interesting and debatable.
You mentioned that "The Vatican. I think it's a theocratic country and I haven't heard many complaints from people that live there. The Swiss have a pretty secular country (secular is as close to atheist as available, I think, because there are simply more believers by a huge percentage than unbelievers) and we don't hear a lot of grief from there either."
*******************************************
In response.
from
Women's suffrage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Vatican City — "No suffrage for women; while most men in the Holy See also lack the vote, all persons with suffrage in Papal conclaves (the Cardinals) are male."
The Swiss of course will always allow anything anywhere anytime! lol !!! Sorry, but I don't think the Royal Guard has made an arrest in years! smile. :fish:
Vellcomen!
!!!! Reverend Cliffy!!!!
Your awakening is neigh. Yes, the downfall of man via his sinful choices is not part of His plan for "YOU", BUT, it all has to happen, as it has for all the animal abusers for centuries.
The pages MUST turn to get to the last chapter. You are an author, you respect the "climatic ending" of course!
About Abraham in that other response to the other post, you don't need to be corrected for answers you already are aware of, do you? Write Jerusalem if in doubt. Even Muslims have no issue with my observances.
You trying to pick as fight... huh dude! lol!!!
Go...Chill in the Forest, tomorrow is the Seventh Day. :fish:
Your awakening is neigh. Yes, the downfall of man via his sinful choices is not part of His plan for "YOU", BUT, it all has to happen, as it has for all the animal abusers for centuries.
The pages MUST turn to get to the last chapter. You are an author, you respect the "climatic ending" of course!
About Abraham in that other response to the other post, you don't need to be corrected for answers you already are aware of, do you? Write Jerusalem if in doubt. Even Muslims have no issue with my observances.
You trying to pick as fight... huh dude! lol!!!
Go...Chill in the Forest, tomorrow is the Seventh Day. :fish:
There it is.....I was wondering how long it would take one of you zealots to come up with this...lol....
So, do you also support the "Promise Keepers"? or perhaps you're a member. Nothin like wanting to turn back the clock a 100 years eh.........
Why would Jerusalem not agree with you? They are the ones who rewrote history to suit themselves. Abraham was a Sumerian. What is your problem with that? Muslims are just revisionist Jews and Christians. They are just as deluded.
And I don't pick fights. Your were the one asking me to put in my two cents: We need to hear from the Reverend Cliffy on this, I could defer. LOL!!!! - lest you forgot! You are the one with the sarcasm and condescending tone my good christian friend.
I see.
I think they are possibly right, but it isn't particularly women's fault as because of the one comment in the Bible that put women secondary to men: right around where it says Eve came from Adam's hip or side or something like that. It says this god gave man dominion. Women simply don't accept that we are secondary to men and have been striving to achieve equal standing ever since. And if it takes putting shoes on, leaving the kitchen and not staying pregnant almost year round and entering what has traditionally been a man's world, then that's what it takes.
Yes. Most ideas are debatable.
I don't think the swiss allow anything anytime in their own country. They have had a pretty stable country for a lot of years. They pretty much mind their own ps and qs and let the rest of the world do as it wishes. As far as the Royal Swiss Guard goes, I don't think they are much of anything but a facade. They may be well trained but why would something need guarding that wouldn't be attacked? Kind of like the Coldstream guards, right?
Anyway, neither place seems to have any need for suffrage. Nor does any place that already allows voting by both genders. And if women are content with whatever lot in life we have, or already have about the same status as males, we don't need suffrage and the like.
Bluedog didn't even say he supported that. In fact all he said about it was that it seemed interesting but debatable. Why would you assume he supports any "promise keepers" or want to turn the clock back 100 years?
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My daughter joined "promise keepers" on her own, she was thirteen. She then was so excited, she promised to stay a virgin until she was married. I was proud of her. Very much so.
Unfortunately, she has made choices since that day on that hot summer afternoon with her friends. She acknowledges openly that she has now complicated, upset, and bitterly confused her young life, now conflicts from outside continually batter her!
She now admits openly by her own carnal, sinful nature (that we all share) she did not keep that promise. She says it has has left her- not broken- but emotionally scarred. It could have been forever for her a lifelong self inflicted injury, one that would have easily been avoided had she lived up to her own standard.
I have assured her that her young life is a continually revealing experience, often self revealing. I reminded her that God knew her long long ago since before she was in her mothers womb, AND all the choices she would make today- and tomorrow. Now, she has only to do naught but redefine herself again, with another, more personal choice- that definition alone will reassure herself! Praise God!
As she steps back on that narrow road- life will bring more easily the clear choices and with any missed step, she will fulfill His plan in her as a woman with a personal testiment of God.
Finally. I suggested quietly that she could go out and get another ring to wear, to look at and admire... as a renewed promise to our God to simplify her life once again, by His grace.
We wonderously shared a tear and as I wept SHE reaffirmed ME just as quietly with her reply... saying, she made that choice, she already had!
All Glory and Power goes to the Almighty one, He changes lives, hearts and redeems souls from every pain and anguish.
Today, back thousands of years ago, and tomorrow. :fish:
Bluedog: Sounds more like someone laid a gilt trip on your daughter. Teens need to experiment. Not all will have positive results, it is part of growing up.
Exactly.....that is one reason the laws were changed......an attempt to develop the territory, to change the nature of it.
I have said it before: laying religious dogma on children is child abuse. Fundamentalists are the biggest abusers. When I ran the youth club in Quesnel the kids confided in me and it was the pillars of the fundamentalists churches who abused their kids the most, mentally, physically and sexually. I even had one fundy threatened to punch my lights out because his daughter told me about his abuses. Yup! I have a lot of respect for the religiously self righteous.
Oh Bull****.
Yes, there are hypocrites, there are abusers....and I mean serious sexual abusers....that hide behind the facade provided by a Christian church. But I was raised in a family of backwoods Baptists, just about as fundamentalist as you can get........and the truth is that my extended family, and the vast majority of their friends and acquaintances in the church, were the finest people I have ever had the priviledge to meet.
Self-righteousness was not a major part of the character of any of them.
Obviously, I did not take up the creed entirely....but I have the deepest respect for those who adopt a moral code for themselves, and do their level best to follow it. A little too narrow for me....but to condemn the mass on the actions of a few is outrageously......self-righteous.