Good on California

[Walter]

California voters approve gay-marriage ban

By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer Lisa Leff, Associated Press Writer – Wed Nov 5, 4:20 pm ET

AFP/Getty Images/File – Supporters of Proposition 8 rally during in Los Angeles, October 2008. A ban on gay marriages in California …
LOS ANGELES – Voters put a stop to same-sex marriage in California, dealing a crushing defeat to gay-rights activists in a state they hoped would be a vanguard and putting in doubt as many as 18,000 same-sex marriages conducted since a court ruling made them legal this year.
The gay-rights movement had a rough election elsewhere as well Tuesday. Amendments to ban gay marriage were approved in Arizona and Florida, and Arkansas voters approved a measure banning unmarried couples from serving as adoptive or foster parents. Supporters made clear that gays and lesbians were their main target.
But California, the nation's most populous state, had been the big prize. Spending for and against Proposition 8 reached $74 million, the most expensive social-issues campaign in U.S. history and the most expensive campaign this year outside the race for the White House. Activists on both sides of the issue saw the measure as critical to building momentum for their causes.
"People believe in the institution of marriage," Frank Schubert, co-manager of the Yes on 8 campaign, said after declaring victory early Wednesday. "It's one institution that crosses ethnic divides, that crosses partisan divides. ... People have stood up because they care about marriage and they care a great deal."
With almost all precincts reporting, election returns showed the measure winning with 52 percent of the vote. An estimated 2 million to 3 million provisional and absentee ballots remained to be tallied, but based on trends and the locations of the votes still outstanding, the margin of support in favor of the initiative was secure.
Leaders of the No on 8 campaign said they were not ready to concede.
"Because Prop 8 involves the sensitive matter of individual rights, we believe it is important to wait until we receive further information about the outcome," Geoff Kors, director of Equality California, said in a statement Wednesday.
Exit polls for The Associated Press found that Proposition 8 received critical support from black voters who flocked to the polls to support Barack Obama for president. About seven in 10 blacks voted in favor of the ban, while Latinos also supported it and whites were split.
Californians overwhelmingly passed a ban on same-sex marriage in 2000, but gay-rights supporters had hoped public opinion on the issue had shifted enough for this year's measure to be rejected.

 

[Avro]

Oh well, maybe next time.

To bad, a lot of people who were able to show their love will now have that annulled.

Sad.:-(

 

[Kreskin]

Well I hope they're happy. Doesn't make any difference to them either way but I suppose it must make them feel good to deny people things. If someone has another reason for it let us know.

 

[TenPenny]

I guess some people are only happy when they can interfere in other people's lives.

 

[Nuggler]

8O YIKES!!!......."". Spending for and against Proposition 8 reached $74 million, the most expensive social-issues campaign in U.S. history and the most expensive campaign this year outside the race for the White House""

74 MILLION smackers to tell gays ixnay!! Un-freakin-believable!!

whatever:glasses11:

 

[Outta here]

*shaking my head*

How ridiculous.

A black man has just been voted president, when not so very long ago, black people were still being legally subjugated. If that doesn't hammer a point home, I can't begin to imagine what it's going to take for people to realize that no attempt to stifle inalienable human rights is ever successful forever.

 

[coldstream]

well congrats to Florida, Arkansas and California, although i suppose only the latter was in any doubt.. for reaffirming traditional marriage. as the foundation of their states social structure. I wish Canada had the same opportunity of popular democracy.. and courage.. to do the same.

The deformation of marriage, into an absurdity, will have fragmenting effect on our social cohesion, which we will see over the next few years.. which will have profound effects on all aspects of our cultural and economic welfare. It's a pity Canada has allowed itself to become a petrie dish for this type of post structural, post-Christian civilization.. experimentation. It will produce unintended and dire outcomes.

 

[Praxius]

That's pretty sad but not all that suprising..... Many down there still think the US was built on Christian values and that somehow Christianity has the monopoly on what a marriage is and isn't..... which it doesn't and shouldn't.

Oh well.... people can only deal with so much "Change" at one time I guess.

 

[gerryh]

well congrats to Florida, Arkansas and California, although i suppose only the latter was in any doubt.. for reaffirming traditional marriage. as the foundation of their states social structure. I wish Canada had the same opportunity of popular democracy.. and courage.. to do the same.

The deformation of marriage, into an absurdity, will have fragmenting effect on our social cohesion, which we will see over the next few years.. which will have profound effects on all aspects of our cultural and economic welfare. It's a pity Canada has allowed itself to become a petrie dish for this type of post structural, post-Christian civilization.. experimentation. It will produce unintended and dire outcomes.

What a pile of crap......... there is no "traditional marriage" anymore. There is no "traditional family" anymore. With the prevalence of divorce and single parent family's, those that spout the reason for denying SSM is the above are hypocrites of the highest order.

 

[Tonington]

Good on California for being so backwards thinking...
Good on California for showing the civil rights movement has so much more to address...
Good on California for showing that romantic love is only equal when opposites attract...
Good on California for being a bully in the bedroom...

Good on California for bringing forth what would seem to be an imminent Supreme Court ruling on this type of ex post facto law.

 

[tracy]

I was surprised. I live in a very gay friendly area of California and the no on prop 8 signs were all over. I don't understand how people can frame this argument as being a defense of the sanctity of marriage. If you want marriage to be sacred, spend 75 million to outlaw divorce which is the only true threat to marriage. This is nothing more than bigotry. Some of my close friends are gay and I don't see why their relationships deserve less recognition than mine.

 

[tracy]

Good on California for bringing forth what would seem to be an imminent Supreme Court ruling on this type of ex post facto law.

This was really in response to a court ruling that made gay marriage legal here for the past couple of months. Many gay people married their partners during that time. I wonder what happens to their marriages now...

 

[coldstream]

What a pile of crap......... there is no "traditional marriage" anymore. There is no "traditional family" anymore. With the prevalence of divorce and single parent family's.

Unfortunately that's largely true. I'm not sure if the disintegration of marriage in its traditional form predisposed Canada for the abomination the legitimization of homosexual 'marriage'.. but the entire post-moral, post structural climate of our society certainly preceded its implementation. Unfortunately is the most aggregious symbol of it, and in fact will accelerate a death spiral our culture seems to be in. When we are being torn apart by disease, crime, ecomomic collapse, global war in a few years few will blame the collapse of marriage.. but it will have been cardinal element in our dissolution.

 

[Praxius]

well congrats to Florida, Arkansas and California, although i suppose only the latter was in any doubt.. for reaffirming traditional marriage. as the foundation of their states social structure. I wish Canada had the same opportunity of popular democracy.. and courage.. to do the same.

The deformation of marriage, into an absurdity, will have fragmenting effect on our social cohesion, which we will see over the next few years.. which will have profound effects on all aspects of our cultural and economic welfare. It's a pity Canada has allowed itself to become a petrie dish for this type of post structural, post-Christian civilization.. experimentation. It will produce unintended and dire outcomes.

Are you kidding me with this fearmongering tripe? Post-Christian Civilization? What the hell were we before? Do you seriously think Marriages never existed prior to the existence of the Christian Religion? Do you seriously think society went to hell and corruption with other cultures around the world who don't follow christianity?

What did the natives do in North America before Christians came here? What do you think happened with Romans, Pagans, Nordic, etc.?

Tell me straight forward and honestly..... Who Created Marriage? Who owns the rights to marriage to dictate who can be married?

Technically marriage has existed longer then written history (Long before Christianity existed) and therefore nobody has the rights to marriage to dictate who can be married..... not even the government.... because nobody can claim ownership on the concept, because the original records don't exist.

Many animals beyond humans bond with others of their species and live their entire lives with one another exclusively.... the bond and companionship between two individual living creatures spans far beyond christian humans and even humans as a whole...... so who has the right to dictate how one should express their love?

And that's the kicker right there..... "LOVE" ~ I find it pretty damn foolish for Christians, who apparently boast being a peaceful and loving faith and a becon of all that, to go around and shun others for expressing their "Love".... something apparently God gave us anyways....

But somehow along the history of Christianity, Love turned into Evil Sin.

If a religion doesn't like same sex marriages, then they have the right not to marry same sex couples in their churches, but they have no right to dictate the laws of a country, state or province based on their religious views......

If they are allowed to do this, then Muslims have every right to start introducing their own islamic laws into our everyday lives..... and if they are allowed to do this too, then I should be allowed to introduce my own beliefs into everybody's lives.

 

[gerryh]

Unfortunately that's largely true. I'm not sure if the disintegration of marriage in its traditional form predisposed Canada for the abomination the legitimization of homosexual 'marriage'.. but the entire post-moral, post structural climate of our society certainly preceded its implementation. Unfortunately is the most aggregious symbol of it, and in fact will accelerate a death spiral our culture seems to be in. When we are being torn apart by disease, crime, ecomomic collapse, global war in a few years few will blame the collapse of marriage.. but it will have been cardinal element in our dissolution.

abomination? post-moral? What a pile of tripe.

 

[TenPenny]

If you want marriage to be sacred, spend 75 million to outlaw divorce which is the only true threat to marriage.

No, here's the bit:

If you want marriage to be sacred, WORK ON YOUR OWN MARRIAGE. SET AN EXAMPLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN. Be honest, faithful, respectful of your spouse.

 

[coldstream]

One of the great delusions of the terms 'free' or 'equal' is that they will not reduced to inconsequence and nonsense if they are not placed in the context of a responsibility to a higher and integrated moral order. In the West, that is Christian morality, which is the foundation of our civilization.

If you reduce thse terms to promoting competing points of reference in an amoral and chaotic universe, where only individual rights rule, then you will reduce morality to a 'law of the jungle mentality' of competing interests and power. That seems to happening now, when any absurdity can be declared equal in moral content, to any other, without reference to reason, purpose, tradition.

That seems to be happening in our civilization, and has an eery resemblance to the Oswald Spengler's premonition of a fragmenting civilization, cut free from in founding inspirations, and spinning wildly in space, dissipating its civilizing energy.

Much of what we have seen in our culture and in our economy now is a result of the loss of that sense of confidence in our origins and in a divine, absolute order.

 

[gerryh]

One of the great delusions of the terms 'free' or 'equal' is that they will not reduced to inconsequence and nonsense if they are not placed in the context of a responsibility to a higher and integrated moral order. In the West, that is Christian morality, which is the foundation of our civilization.

If you reduce thse terms to promoting competing points of reference in an amoral and chaotic universe, where only individual rights rule, then you will reduce morality to a 'law of the jungle mentality' of competing interests and power. That seems to happening now, when any absurdity can be declared equal in moral content, to any other, without reference to reason, purpose, tradition.

That seems to be happening in our civilization, and has an eery resemblance to the Oswald Spengler's premonition of a fragmenting civilization, cut free from in founding inspirations, and spinning wildly in space, dissipating its civilizing energy.

Much of what we have seen in our culture and in our economy now is a result of the loss of that sense of confidence in our origins and in a divine, absolute order.

and what "higher and integrated moral order" would that be?

 

[Praxius]

Unfortunately that's largely true. I'm not sure if the disintegration of marriage in its traditional form predisposed Canada for the abomination the legitimization of homosexual 'marriage'.. but the entire post-moral, post structural climate of our society certainly preceded its implementation. Unfortunately is the most aggregious symbol of it, and in fact will accelerate a death spiral our culture seems to be in. When we are being torn apart by disease, crime, ecomomic collapse, global war in a few years few will blame the collapse of marriage.. but it will have been cardinal element in our dissolution.

The only thing that destroys marriage is the attempted control over it. When you attempt to control someone's feeling and love, you get destruction.... the fall of your society is directly due to the control you attempt to place apon marriage.

Take forced marriages or arranged marriages..... my parents were in a forced marriage because my mother became pregnant with my sister..... it was the thing to do at that time in the 70's.... you have a kid, you get married. Why? Because that was the religious thing to do and common practice for families back then.... even if you didn't follow the religion, you were pressured by your neighbors and gossip in doing it.

Guess what? They're divorced.... why? Because they were forced into doing something they didn't want to do by my grandparents. Did it make a wonderful household for us children to live in? Hell fk'n no! I would have rathered they divorce long before I was born.... they are now living their own lives, with the people they love and they are a hell of a lot more happier now then they ever were together. And I can tell you straight out that if my parents were seperated and were able to live their lives the way they wanted to..... sure, I wouldn't have both my mother and father under the same roof, but my childhood would have had a hell of a lot less BS to deal with that was created by that forced situation.

If divorces were not available, people would be killing one another..... very simple.... if they didn't kill one another, they'd be going insane with trying to figure out how to stop the other from cheating on them. They would go insane trying to figure out why they no longer get along..... maybe they were never ment to get along.

It really doesn't matter... moving on:

You feel that same sex marriages are going to ruin our society and basically cause the universe to emplode..... guess what? Having same sex marriages legal isn't going to suddenly turn me gay, it's not going to turn anybody suddenly gay.... people are straight, gay, bisexual or a-sexual..... you don't just suddenly click and go "Hmmm... I think I'll be gay for now on." You either are or you're not..... having marriages available for same sex couples isn't going to do a damn thing to society except allow it to be more open, more tollerant, less hateful and bring happiness to the lives of others who may not have much because of people who oppress them due to their unfounded and skewed religious beliefs.

In closing, I have a cousin who is gay, he's a great person, never crossed anybody, never screwed anybody over, generous, friendly, kind.... and is a hell of a lot better representative of humanity them most straight christians I have come accross.... and if he finds someone he loves and wishes to marry him, he has my full support in doing so.

And guess what? The majority of my family who are religious and originally forced my parents into marriage, learned from their mistakes of that, which is why they never forced my sister into marriage after she had her triplets...... and they fully support and still love my cousin as well..... despite the religious teachings you are speaking of above.

The moment humans start following what they truly feel rather then what they are told to do, the moment this whole world becomes a better place...... and maybe then I won't be such a jerk.

 

[shadowshiv]

I wonder why some people have such a problem with gay men and lesbians getting married? Love is love no matter who it is directed at.

You think that society is moving forward, and then situations like this prove otherwise.