Republicans start swinging

Avro
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#1
By --



The Republican attack machine went after Democratic presidential front-runner Barack Obama last week, and it was not a pretty sight.
After Obama sensibly proposed direct negotiations with Iran, Venezuela and Cuba, and described any potential danger from Iran as "tiny," Republican candidate John McCain accused him of being reckless and inexperienced.
"The threat the government of Iran poses is anything but tiny," thundered McCain -- the same "experienced" McCain who mistakenly claimed Iran was supporting Sunni fighters in Iraq.
President George W. Bush echoed McCain's accusations during a speech to Israel's Knesset last week, an oration so fulsome and simplistic, many worldly Israeli legislators were left looking embarrassed.
Bush insinuated Obama was a dangerous pre-Second World War type "appeaser" for daring suggest talking to Iran. Neocons blasted Obama as unpatriotic for not wearing an American flag pin and hinted he was a closet Muslim. Obama was so flummoxed by these violent attacks, he foolishly flip-flopped and agreed Iran was indeed a grave threat.
All this came as the danger of a U.S./Israeli attack on Iran to preserve Israel's Mideast nuclear monopoly was growing. Israel's PM Ehud Olmert called for a U.S. naval blockade of Iran, an open act of war.

GOERING

If the Second World War must be dredged up, a more appropriate reference would be Nazi Hermann Goering's famous formula for fascism: "All you have to do is to tell them (the people) they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
McCain is an able, savvy domestic politician, but his absurd claims about Iran bring into question his understanding of foreign policy.
Iran has no long-range missiles, nuclear weapons or bombers. Its decrepit air force barely flies. Iran's so-called navy is a lightly armed coast guard.
Its ground forces are immobile and lack all forms of modern weapons. Tehran's defence budget is the size of Poland's or Norway's, and 100 times smaller than U.S. military spending.
It's the great Iraq scare all over. Republicans again are playing to the least-educated Americans by frightening them with fairy tales and outright lies. Iranian mad mullahs determined to shower A-bombs on Memphis and Dubuque have replaced Saddam and his Drones of Death. Should the U.S. talk to enemies? Of course. Diplomacy is one of three primary tools of statecraft along with military and economic power. Only arrant fools do not make use of it.
Just because the Bush administration largely relied on military power in foreign policy does not mean this Soviet-style approach need continue.
To whom does one negotiate if not with one's enemies and rivals? Besides, war is waged to attain diplomatic objectives, not win military victories. The greatest threat to world peace is not pipsqueaks such as Iran, Cuba or, even more laughably, Venezuela. It is the breakdown of normal diplomatic relations.
As Democrats rightly noted, the U.S. fruitfully negotiated with the Soviet Union and China when both powers threatened America with nuclear destruction.
The Bush administration has been making progress in nuclear talks with "pariah" North Korea.

SENSIBLE NATIONS

All sensible nations talk, either through normal or back door channels. Israel kept in touch with Iran after its revolution, secretly sold Tehran $5 billion of arms, and still maintains links today. Israel also has discreet links to Hamas and Hezbollah through third parties such as Egypt. Israel and old foe Syria just announced talks.
McCain should be reminded that hysteria is not a viable foreign policy, even if it is election silly season.
He is wrong to keep promoting the image of America as a spinster atop a chair, screaming in fear of a Muslim mouse called Iran. This is unworthy of the great United States.
If anyone is being reckless and inexperienced in foreign affairs, so far it's McCain. His fear mongering over Iran and his truly worrying plans to confront Russia and China at the same time give me the willies.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Colum...663401-sun.php
 
talloola
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#2
[quote=Avro;953967]By --





He is wrong to keep promoting the image of America as a spinster atop a chair, screaming in fear of a Muslim mouse called Iran. This is unworthy of the great United States.
If anyone is being reckless and inexperienced in foreign affairs, so far it's McCain. His fear mongering over Iran and his truly worrying plans to confront Russia and China at the same time give me the willies.

ME TOO

 
Lineman
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#3
What would be the consequences of Iran obtaining a nuclear capability? Mutual assured destruction of both it and Israel? Even with "the bomb" they aren't stupid enough to think someone else wouldn't lob a few back at them if they used theirs. Would they?
 
normbc9
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#4
When you read these allegations never loose sight of the fact that most are just that. Allegations passed on by word of mouth. There will be numerous charges about previous associations Obama has had and those can probably be proven but what about the opposing candidates previous associations? They aren't mentioned are they?
 
talloola
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#5
Quote: Originally Posted by normbc9View Post

When you read these allegations never loose sight of the fact that most are just that. Allegations passed on by word of mouth. There will be numerous charges about previous associations Obama has had and those can probably be proven but what about the opposing candidates previous associations? They aren't mentioned are they?

The complaints I have with the republican government, is on what 'they have done', facts
not accusations.
The Obama accusations is only gossip during a campaign run which will have to be proven, and they never will be, just dirt dug up by the fox news 'little ball of hate' Hannity and others. Give us facts, they are having a hard time finding their dirt to
bury him with, so they are scrambling now, just as they did with the rev. wright thing,
which is about rev. wright, not Obama, and the other 8000 perishioners in the church.
 
Colpy
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#6
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

The complaints I have with the republican government, is on what 'they have done', facts
not accusations.
The Obama accusations is only gossip during a campaign run which will have to be proven, and they never will be, just dirt dug up by the fox news 'little ball of hate' Hannity and others. Give us facts, they are having a hard time finding their dirt to
bury him with, so they are scrambling now, just as they did with the rev. wright thing,
which is about rev. wright, not Obama, and the other 8000 perishioners in the church.

Obama voted against a bill to ban partial birth abortions.

He voted for a bill to ban handguns.

What more do you need to know?
 
#juan
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#7
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Obama voted against a bill to ban partial birth abortions.

He voted for a bill to ban handguns.

What more do you need to know?


There are just too many unwanted children born in the U.S. and Canada, even late abortions are preferrable to stupid people giving birth to unwanted children.

There are already close to a hundred million handguns in the U.S. Of the approximately 17,000 murders last year in the U.S., two thirds were committed with firearms....one half of those were with hand guns. Any bill to decrease the number of hand guns is a good idea. Outside of their use by police and guards, hand guns have no use in the general population.
Last edited by #juan; May 27th, 2008 at 02:21 PM..
 
jimmoyer
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#8
Right outside of the Philly area, my dad and his friends would walk to school with their 22 rifles and shoot squirrel, catch and prep. They would just put their guns in the locker and go to class in the 40s.

By the 60s we were reduced to BB guns and plastic bullet guns.

And now, the culture is so screwy no one knows how to handle guns anymore. It's like we've all gotten dumber.
 
#juan
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#9
Jimmoyer

When I was twelve years old I used to take my dog and my rifle into the bush and stay out all day. Nobody worried about me. Today's twelve year olds are a different kettle of fish. Hell, today's adults are a different kettle of fish.
 
Walter
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

There are just too many unwanted children born in the U.S. and Canada, even late abortions are preferrable to stupid people giving birth to unwanted children.

There are already close to a hundred million handguns in the U.S. Of the approximately 17,000 murders last year in the U.S., two thirds were committed with firearms....one half of those were with hand guns. Any bill to decrease the number of hand guns is a good idea. Outside of their use by police and guards, hand guns have no use in the general population.

Aren't the handguns getting rid of the unwanted children?
 
Colpy
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#11
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

There are just too many unwanted children born in the U.S. and Canada, even late abortions are preferrable to stupid people giving birth to unwanted children.

There are already close to a hundred million handguns in the U.S. Of the approximately 17,000 murders last year in the U.S., two thirds were committed with firearms....one half of those were with hand guns. Any bill to decrease the number of hand guns is a good idea. Outside of their use by police and guards, hand guns have no use in the general population.

Leaving the issue of handguns aside for a moment....(that should tell you how seriously I take the other)

Do you understand what partial birth abortion is?

The child is perfectly capable of surviving seperate from the mother, the child is in the process of being born when its progress down the birth canal is halted and the so-called doctor smashes open the top of the skull and scrambles the child's brains.

It is flat-out murder.

You might just as well wait ten minutes, then take the born child by the feet and smash its head against a brick wall.

EXACTLY the same thing.

Ten or fifteen minutes is the only difference.

Anyone that would allow such a thing has no moral centre, and should be kept as far away as possible from positions of power.

As for the other, it would be nice for the Yanks to have a President that has actually read the Bill of Rights.......or at least cares what it says.
 
EagleSmack
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#12
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

You might just as well wait ten minutes, then take the born child by the feet and smash its head against a brick wall.

Well then you would hear the baby scream and cry...nobody wants to have that on their consious. Better to wait until just the crown is showing before the baby is one push from taking it's first breath and jamming an ice pick in its head...which is exactly what they do.
 
#juan
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#13
Quote:

quoting Colpy
Do you understand what partial birth abortion is?

Yes I do. Partial birth abortions is one of the terms used for all abortions of viable fetuses. "Viable fetuses" are involved in a good percentage of abortions. Nobody should be surprised that these fetuses look like babies. They are babies. While I was going to college my wife, an RN, worked at the major hospital in Burnaby. She used to come home in tears on Abortion Sunday because of the aborted fetuses she had seen being destroyed or discarded. This is not new. Do we tell these women they can't have an abortion?
 
Colpy
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#14
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

Yes I do. Partial birth abortions is one of the terms used for all abortions of viable fetuses. "Viable fetuses" are involved in a good percentage of abortions. Nobody should be surprised that these fetuses look like babies. They are babies. While I was going to college my wife, an RN, worked at the major hospital in Burnaby. She used to come home in tears on Abortion Sunday because of the aborted fetuses she had seen being destroyed or discarded. This is not new. Do we tell these women they can't have an abortion?

Your wife has good instincts........

Yes, I would tell women that have let their pregnancy advance to the point the "fetus" is "viable" that they can't have an abortion......the same way I'd tell them they can't beat their children to death.
 
I think not
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#15
Colpy,

Partial birth abortions are illegal by Act of Congress and constitutionally upheld, unless the mothers health is at risk. So what does it matter at this point?
 
Colpy
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#16
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

Colpy,

Partial birth abortions are illegal by Act of Congress and constitutionally upheld, unless the mothers health is at risk. So what does it matter at this point?

It doesn't. Except that it reveals something of his mindset. My assumption would be that he voted against the Bill as he saw it as the thin edge of the wedge in a battle against Roe vs Wade...........that is NOT IMHO, a good enough reason.

And I really don't have anything against Obama.............it simply worries me to see a people caught in a wave of wh0-knows-what...........reminds me of Trudeaumania...OMG! Run!

Really, people need to take a much closer look at the man.

And, admittedly, I like McCain.
 
talloola
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#17
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Obama voted against a bill to ban partial birth abortions.

He voted for a bill to ban handguns.

What more do you need to know?

What kind of silly questions are those. I am not against abortions, and
I would ban all hand guns as well, hand guns are for killing people,
what more do you need to know!!!!

I would like to know his story as to why he voted against partial birth abortions,
then I will comment on his vote.
 
mt_pockets1000
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#18
So let me see if I have this straight. It's a terrible thing to carry out partial birth abortions but it's ok to drop a cluster bomb on a village in Iraq, killing and maiming indiscriminately. Ok...got it now. It's all in the semantics. Perception is reality.

Personnally, given the choice, I'd rather have an ice pick drove through my skull than die a horrible death bleeding from a lost limb or shrapnel embedded in my gut. Then again, neither the unborn child nor the innocent victim of a bombing are ever given the choice.
 
Kreskin
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#19
Actually one is not fit to lead if they refer to a great uncle as uncle and noting the wrong concentration camp he liberated people from but it's ok to drop cluster bombs based on deceit and lies. Get your facts straight!
 
talloola
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#20
Quote: Originally Posted by KreskinView Post

Actually one is not fit to lead if they refer to a great uncle as uncle and noting the wrong concentration camp he liberated people from but it's ok to drop cluster bombs based on deceit and lies. Get your facts straight!

Yeah Kreskin, I'm watching Fox as we speak, and they are lieing about obama.

They say that obama said that his undle rescued people from that concentration camp,
and he doesn't even have an uncle. lol

it was his great uncle, and the story is totally true, he just got the wrong concentration
camp, and his uncle, who is still alive came forward today and verified the story.
 
mt_pockets1000
#21
Yep, CNN also carried the story about his uncle. Talk about grasping for straws.
 
talloola
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#22
Quote: Originally Posted by mt_pockets1000View Post

Yep, CNN also carried the story about his uncle. Talk about grasping for straws.

Sounds more like an elementary school having chat about electing a new president of the
class. They are embarrassanly immature and tacky, find something solid to debate about,
really.
 
Colpy
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#23
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

What kind of silly questions are those. I am not against abortions, and
I would ban all hand guns as well, hand guns are for killing people,
what more do you need to know!!!!

I would like to know his story as to why he voted against partial birth abortions,
then I will comment on his vote.

Well, you should probably read the second amendment to the US constitution, you know, the one office holders swear to "uphold and defend".......it would be nice, like I said, for the Americans to have a President that has actually read the document.......

He didn't for against partial birth abortions.....he voted against a bill to ban partial birth abortions.

And, BTW, the "uncle" story is just silly. These guys in the media, and in political back rooms, will jump on anything, no matter how insignificant, and God forbid they spend 10 minutes doing research.........but it doesn't matter which candidate. There are incompetent arseholes in both campaigns and in the media.
 
I think not
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#24
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

It doesn't. Except that it reveals something of his mindset. My assumption would be that he voted against the Bill as he saw it as the thin edge of the wedge in a battle against Roe vs Wade...........that is NOT IMHO, a good enough reason.

I personally can't find any good reason why partial birth abortions (other than the mother being at risk, somehow) should even be a consideration that warrants a law against it. It's absolutely disgusting.

His mindset after listening to his side of the issue; the decision should be with the mother. Honestly, that mother should have thought of an abortion little after conception.I'm not buying his logic on this one. But thankfully, it's a done deal, so a non issue in my eyes.

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

And I really don't have anything against Obama.............it simply worries me to see a people caught in a wave of wh0-knows-what...........reminds me of Trudeaumania...OMG! Run!

I don't think people are necessarily "caught up" as you say it, he is young and has inspired alot of young people to come out and vote. If there is anything "caught up" about him, it is a new face, not necessarily fresh ideas. Clinton is old news in Washington, Obama is a new face that sends out a message of "change".

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Really, people need to take a much closer look at the man.

The Republicans are grasping for straws at the moment, they can't find anything substantial, if they had, it would have come out by now. Unfortunately the Clinton camp likes to throw crap around moreso than the McCain camp. Typical Democrats, they have a huge shot at the White House and it seems they just keep digging themselves deeper and deeper. I wouldn't be shocked if they lose, again.

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

And, admittedly, I like McCain.

I like McCain on a few policies he is recommending, but he turns me off completely with his terrorism rhetoric. Plus he has a very short temper, reminds me of someone already in the White House. That also says much about his mindset.


Talloola,

I have been reading your posts regarding the Presidential elections with great interest. While I do not agree with everything you say, I realize that your concerns lie in the fact that the people of the United States deserve better. For that I thank you. You're a breath of fresh air.
 
I think not
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#25
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Well, you should probably read the second amendment to the US constitution, you know, the one office holders swear to "uphold and defend".......it would be nice, like I said, for the Americans to have a President that has actually read the document.......

Obama was a civil rights lawyer in Illinois, hence his practice was Constitutional law.

My guess is he has read the document.
 
talloola
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#26
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

He didn't for against partial birth abortions.....he voted against a bill to ban partial birth abortions.
Right, sorry, I worded that incorrectly.

And, BTW, the "uncle" story is just silly. These guys in the media, and in political back rooms, will jump on anything, no matter how insignificant, and God forbid they spend 10 minutes doing research.........but it doesn't matter which candidate. There are incompetent arseholes in both campaigns and in the media.

They are embarrassing to listen to, and it is insulting that they talk to 'us' in that manner.
BUT, I wonder how many actually believe everything they say, 'that' is more scary.
 
talloola
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#27
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post


I
Talloola,

I have been reading your posts regarding the Presidential elections with great interest. While I do not agree with everything you say, I realize that your concerns lie in the fact that the people of the United States deserve better. For that I thank you. You're a breath of fresh air.

I think about 'all of you' quite often, and see you 'stuck' under the iron fist of that
president, and administration, and while he is there, you are not as 'free' as you should
be. November is nearing, but McCain is lirking and hoping, surely he won't be successful,
as I'm positive you all want to get out from under the present system, and with McCain as
president, it will be same ole, same ole.
 
I think not
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

They are embarrassing to listen to, and it is insulting that they talk to 'us' in that manner.
BUT, I wonder how many actually believe everything they say, 'that' is more scary.

If people can believe holograms smashed into the WTC, they will believe anything.
 
Colpy
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#29
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

Obama was a civil rights lawyer in Illinois, hence his practice was Constitutional law.

My guess is he has read the document.

Well, he may have read it........but, if he voted for a ban on handguns he certainly doesn't respect it or understand it.

Of course, neither does Bush.
 
Colpy
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#30
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

I think about 'all of you' quite often, and see you 'stuck' under the iron fist of that
president, and administration, and while he is there, you are not as 'free' as you should
be. November is nearing, but McCain is lirking and hoping, surely he won't be successful,
as I'm positive you all want to get out from under the present system, and with McCain as
president, it will be same ole, same ole.

A popular misconception.

Obama is the traditionalist, backing what have long been traditional values of the Democrat.....departing from the party line not a whit.....McCain is the maverick, willing to cross party lines and engage in non-partisan solutions to some issues......

Obama is unproven, untested, inexperienced, and I REALLY don't like "cult of personality" popularity surges.

McCain has been tested.........and proven to be an extraordinary man.
 

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