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Posts: 1,333 
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
March 16th, 2008, 09:32 AM
There were more important things than the Spitzer spectacle going on last week
By ERIC MARGOLIS
There are few more riveting spectacles than the public exposure and humiliation of a major hypocrite. So it was with New York State's fallen governor, Eliot Spitzer.
As a former prosecutor Spitzer relentlessly crusaded against financial, political and moral malefactors, including those involved in prostitution cases. Some saw him as a future presidential candidate.
Watching this modern Savonarola exposed dallying with outrageously priced call girls suggests there is indeed natural justice -- except, of course, for the humiliation inflicted on his brave, loyal wife.
U.S. media has overflowed with silly commentary by feminists and shrinks about "why did he do it." He did it because he was a typical man, genetically programmed to lust after multiple sexual partners. As the old saying goes, if a man isn't thinking about sex, his mind is wandering.
Too many Americans still have adolescent views of sex and marriage.
Europeans, by contrast, shrug off men's need to stray as normal and acceptable, provided it is done discreetly. Powerful, busy men such as Spitzer who have no time to court and romance women resort to prostitutes for simple physical release.
However ruthless, self-serving and hypocritical Spitzer was about prostitution, he was doing one good thing: Going after Wall Street's crooks and fraudsters largely responsible for the current financial crisis.
Spitzer's downfall this week unfortunately obscured two far more important events.
Saddam and al-Qaida
First, the White House refused to release an exhaustive Pentagon review of 600,000 Iraqi documents that found no evidence that Saddam Hussein had any links with al-Qaida.
This al-Qaida connection was the second big lie propagated by the Bush White House to justify invading Iraq. So successfully was it spread by the administration and tame media, that on the eve of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, 80% of Americans blamed Saddam for 9/11.
A small, al-Qaida affiliate appeared in Iraq only as a result of the U.S. invasion. But most misled Americans still believe they are fighting Osama bin Laden's men in Iraq. No wonder the White House is trying to suppress the Pentagon study.
Spitzer's pillorying also masked another profoundly shameful act. On Tuesday, 188 Republicans in the House of Representatives voted to uphold President George Bush's veto of a Democratic-sponsored bill to ban the CIA from using torture to interrogate enemy detainees. Their party-line vote was strong enough to prevent the 225 Democrats who voted to overturn the president's veto from achieving the required two-thirds majority.
Republicans now have become the party of torture. Never has the Grand Old Party sunk so low. Those great Republicans, Lincoln, Eisenhower and Reagan, must be weeping in their graves.
Among tortures America now routinely inflicts on captives: Water torture, near suffocation, beatings, confinement in cramped positions, sleep and sensory deprivation, freezing rooms, ear-splitting noise, mock executions, psychotropic drugs, food laced with excrement and, of course, water-boarding.
Condoning torture
The White House and Republicans claim none of these is really torture. Republicans just love euphemisms. These tortures are merely "enhanced interrogation." Overthrowing foreign governments is "regime change;" assassination, "taking them out." George Orwell warned such double-talk was the hallmark of totalitarian regimes. Even the KGB did not use all these tortures.
The president and his party are violating American and international law, and UN agreements against torture.
Their sanction of torture, and its apotheosis in the Guantanamo gulag, have disgraced America's name around the globe and will continue to haunt the United States for decades to come. Captured American soldiers now know what to expect.
Presidential candidates Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain -- the latter a torture victim -- all properly condemn the White House for promoting torture. But McCain, who should know better, fudges, saying he won't restrict the CIA to interrogations in the Army Field Manual, which bans most forms of real torture. That is ominous.
The Spitzer follies should not distract us from the Bush administration's continuing violations of American and international law, and the values America used to hold dear. Nor ally Ottawa's slide in the same illegal direction.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Colum...020051-sun.php
There were more important things than the Spitzer spectacle going on last week
By ERIC MARGOLIS
There are few more riveting spectacles than the public exposure and humiliation of a major hypocrite. So it was with New York State's fallen governor, Eliot Spitzer.
As a former prosecutor Spitzer relentlessly crusaded against financial, political and moral malefactors, including those involved in prostitution cases. Some saw him as a future presidential candidate.
Watching this modern Savonarola exposed dallying with outrageously priced call girls suggests there is indeed natural justice -- except, of course, for the humiliation inflicted on his brave, loyal wife.
U.S. media has overflowed with silly commentary by feminists and shrinks about "why did he do it." He did it because he was a typical man, genetically programmed to lust after multiple sexual partners. As the old saying goes, if a man isn't thinking about sex, his mind is wandering.
Too many Americans still have adolescent views of sex and marriage.
Europeans, by contrast, shrug off men's need to stray as normal and acceptable, provided it is done discreetly. Powerful, busy men such as Spitzer who have no time to court and romance women resort to prostitutes for simple physical release.
However ruthless, self-serving and hypocritical Spitzer was about prostitution, he was doing one good thing: Going after Wall Street's crooks and fraudsters largely responsible for the current financial crisis.
Spitzer's downfall this week unfortunately obscured two far more important events.
Saddam and al-Qaida
First, the White House refused to release an exhaustive Pentagon review of 600,000 Iraqi documents that found no evidence that Saddam Hussein had any links with al-Qaida.
This al-Qaida connection was the second big lie propagated by the Bush White House to justify invading Iraq. So successfully was it spread by the administration and tame media, that on the eve of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, 80% of Americans blamed Saddam for 9/11.
A small, al-Qaida affiliate appeared in Iraq only as a result of the U.S. invasion. But most misled Americans still believe they are fighting Osama bin Laden's men in Iraq. No wonder the White House is trying to suppress the Pentagon study.
Spitzer's pillorying also masked another profoundly shameful act. On Tuesday, 188 Republicans in the House of Representatives voted to uphold President George Bush's veto of a Democratic-sponsored bill to ban the CIA from using torture to interrogate enemy detainees. Their party-line vote was strong enough to prevent the 225 Democrats who voted to overturn the president's veto from achieving the required two-thirds majority.
Republicans now have become the party of torture. Never has the Grand Old Party sunk so low. Those great Republicans, Lincoln, Eisenhower and Reagan, must be weeping in their graves.
Among tortures America now routinely inflicts on captives: Water torture, near suffocation, beatings, confinement in cramped positions, sleep and sensory deprivation, freezing rooms, ear-splitting noise, mock executions, psychotropic drugs, food laced with excrement and, of course, water-boarding.
Condoning torture
The White House and Republicans claim none of these is really torture. Republicans just love euphemisms. These tortures are merely "enhanced interrogation." Overthrowing foreign governments is "regime change;" assassination, "taking them out." George Orwell warned such double-talk was the hallmark of totalitarian regimes. Even the KGB did not use all these tortures.
The president and his party are violating American and international law, and UN agreements against torture.
Their sanction of torture, and its apotheosis in the Guantanamo gulag, have disgraced America's name around the globe and will continue to haunt the United States for decades to come. Captured American soldiers now know what to expect.
Presidential candidates Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain -- the latter a torture victim -- all properly condemn the White House for promoting torture. But McCain, who should know better, fudges, saying he won't restrict the CIA to interrogations in the Army Field Manual, which bans most forms of real torture. That is ominous.
The Spitzer follies should not distract us from the Bush administration's continuing violations of American and international law, and the values America used to hold dear. Nor ally Ottawa's slide in the same illegal direction.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Colum...020051-sun.php
March 16th, 2008, 09:36 AM
Hear hear!!!
I posted this at another site...
But as much as I hate Margolis, he makes a valid point.
Hear hear!!!
I posted this at another site...
Quote:
It got one reply.
All four dailies in Tdot today, printed papers with the '*****' that sank Spitzer on the cover page.
What the ****!!!???
The man that will replace Spitzer, a blind black man, set up in life with two adversities from the get go. A man that ran the New York Marathon and will now succeed Spitzer, gets an honourable mention on later pages.
Nope, he doesn't deserve the front page, not that American Politics should, but the high priced tart that sank a Guv is.
Wow, how journalism has died.
What the ****!!!???
The man that will replace Spitzer, a blind black man, set up in life with two adversities from the get go. A man that ran the New York Marathon and will now succeed Spitzer, gets an honourable mention on later pages.
Nope, he doesn't deserve the front page, not that American Politics should, but the high priced tart that sank a Guv is.
Wow, how journalism has died.
But as much as I hate Margolis, he makes a valid point.
March 16th, 2008, 12:07 PM
This case goes a lot deeper than just someone having sex with hookers, though. Those rings are known to be fronts for money laundering. Does everyone really pay $1000-3000 per hour for sex? Some do I'm sure. PT Barnum has a theory on that. But there would be many cases where money flows through like legitimate transactions for payment on other illegal affairs. When the bank reported multiple transactions from one source going to this payee, the federal authorities investigated and found it was coming from the governor of New York. For all they knew it was extortion money or payoff money. It still could be something a lot more than sex before this is all done with.
So when would be a good time to make this public? Every day someone is reporting something on Iraq, the economy, etc. It's easy to connect this with any current event on any day and point to it as diverting attention.
To say this was part of yet another conspiracy, I don't buy it.
This case goes a lot deeper than just someone having sex with hookers, though. Those rings are known to be fronts for money laundering. Does everyone really pay $1000-3000 per hour for sex? Some do I'm sure. PT Barnum has a theory on that. But there would be many cases where money flows through like legitimate transactions for payment on other illegal affairs. When the bank reported multiple transactions from one source going to this payee, the federal authorities investigated and found it was coming from the governor of New York. For all they knew it was extortion money or payoff money. It still could be something a lot more than sex before this is all done with.
So when would be a good time to make this public? Every day someone is reporting something on Iraq, the economy, etc. It's easy to connect this with any current event on any day and point to it as diverting attention.
To say this was part of yet another conspiracy, I don't buy it.
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
March 16th, 2008, 01:08 PM
Quoting Kreskin
Who said anything about a conspiracy?
This case goes a lot deeper than just someone having sex with hookers, though. Those rings are known to be fronts for money laundering. Does everyone really pay $1000-3000 per hour for sex? Some do I'm sure. PT Barnum has a theory on that. But there would be many cases where money flows through like legitimate transactions for payment on other illegal affairs. When the bank reported multiple transactions from one source going to this payee, the federal authorities investigated and found it was coming from the governor of New York. For all they knew it was extortion money or payoff money. It still could be something a lot more than sex before this is all done with.
So when would be a good time to make this public? Every day someone is reporting something on Iraq, the economy, etc. It's easy to connect this with any current event on any day and point to it as diverting attention.
To say this was part of yet another conspiracy, I don't buy it.
So when would be a good time to make this public? Every day someone is reporting something on Iraq, the economy, etc. It's easy to connect this with any current event on any day and point to it as diverting attention.
To say this was part of yet another conspiracy, I don't buy it.
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
March 16th, 2008, 01:14 PM
It is not so much about bad journalism as it is about what people will tune into and what they don't, in America sex sells newspapers, Bush gaffs don't.
Hate Margolis? That's a bit harsh, is it because he supported Pinochet who transformed Chile into a prosperous country and rid it of dictatorial socialists?
I disagree with him on some issues but I don't hate him, I'd use that word with people like Hitler and Stalin but not Eric.
Quoting CDNBear
How many replies did the Spitzer thread get?
Hear hear!!!
I posted this at another site...
It got one reply.
But as much as I hate Margolis, he makes a valid point.
I posted this at another site...
It got one reply.
But as much as I hate Margolis, he makes a valid point.
It is not so much about bad journalism as it is about what people will tune into and what they don't, in America sex sells newspapers, Bush gaffs don't.
Hate Margolis? That's a bit harsh, is it because he supported Pinochet who transformed Chile into a prosperous country and rid it of dictatorial socialists?
I disagree with him on some issues but I don't hate him, I'd use that word with people like Hitler and Stalin but not Eric.
March 16th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Using the number of posts in the thread, as an illustration of our attention to the issue is impossible.
It's not like that thread was focused on Spitzer. We veered way off into other avenues of discussion and were talking about our personal lives.
We don't do that with threads regarding the Iraq war. We don't goof around and crack jokes about affairs, we don't veer off into tangents about how it parallels our personal lives. Which threads are actually getting more concentrated attention, more respect? Which are actually getting honest input and views? And which are just getting trite jokes?
Using the number of posts in the thread, as an illustration of our attention to the issue is impossible.
It's not like that thread was focused on Spitzer. We veered way off into other avenues of discussion and were talking about our personal lives.
We don't do that with threads regarding the Iraq war. We don't goof around and crack jokes about affairs, we don't veer off into tangents about how it parallels our personal lives. Which threads are actually getting more concentrated attention, more respect? Which are actually getting honest input and views? And which are just getting trite jokes?
March 16th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Quoting Avro
Sorry, I misread the original post. Still, a state governor was repeatedly and secretly sending large sums of money through a network associated with money laundering. It is news, whether we think the Iraq war or Bush's torture crusade needs more headlines or not.
Who said anything about a conspiracy?
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
March 16th, 2008, 05:51 PM
Quoting Kreskin
Sure it's news but not 24/7 with nothing on what the Pentagon had to say about Iraq which has led to the deaths of a few hundred thousand people needlessly.
Sorry, I misread the original post. Still, a state governor was repeatedly and secretly sending large sums of money through a network associated with money laundering. It is news, whether we think the Iraq war or Bush's torture crusade needs more headlines or not.
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,333
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
March 16th, 2008, 05:53 PM
Just proof what we already know....oh well....better luck next time....just forget about it.
Now let's move on to some sex and don't you worry your pretty little heads about that torutre buisness either, if you don't think about it never happened just like the war.
Quoting karrie
Yes, I did. It struck me as 'news that's not news' frankly. Just proof of what many suspected all along.
Just proof what we already know....oh well....better luck next time....just forget about it.
Now let's move on to some sex and don't you worry your pretty little heads about that torutre buisness either, if you don't think about it never happened just like the war.
March 16th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Quoting Avro
my point exactly.... you seem to be basing your view of how seriously people take something, with how many posts it gets on the forum. Just because it sparks more inane chatter doesn't make it a more important topic in ANYone's eyes.
Just proof what we already know....oh well....better luck next time....just forget about it.
Now let's move on to some sex and don't you worry your pretty little heads about that torutre buisness either, if you don't think about it never happened just like the war.
Now let's move on to some sex and don't you worry your pretty little heads about that torutre buisness either, if you don't think about it never happened just like the war.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604 
March 23rd, 2008, 08:55 AM
Hey Zoofer...
If George Bush were bright enough to write...and anyone was fooled into thinking he had anything to say to anyone worth reading....
You'd be the only one reading his column now wouldn't you?
Seriously now, for those who cling desperately to the myth of "honest politicians" this Spitzer nonsense must be a heartbreaker.....
Hey Zoofer...
If George Bush were bright enough to write...and anyone was fooled into thinking he had anything to say to anyone worth reading....
You'd be the only one reading his column now wouldn't you?
Seriously now, for those who cling desperately to the myth of "honest politicians" this Spitzer nonsense must be a heartbreaker.....
