This Is How It's Done
- Thread starter Tecumsehsbones
- Start date
It's a long read, to be sure. If you have some free time, I suggest going through it all. Pretty horrifying.
The message from all this is don't get caught breaking traffic laws. Especially driving without a license.
Seems to me what is needed is education.
I can empathize with the struggle of having to juggle your time to support your family, go to school, etc, and I can certainly be sympathetic on the "speed trap" and quota front, fined for now showing up to answer to a fine: government does love it's cash grabs doesn't it?
But at the same time she did break the law: no seatbelt, going in excess of the speed limit, etc. And that can't be discounted either. There is a reason why these laws exist and not having to face any kind of penalty for violating them would render them meaningless.
Maybe traffic violations needs to be removed from the court system? I don't know but maybe it just needs to be dealt with in a more administrative setting because I just don't see the point in jailing someone over a fine. I'm sure that penalty was put in place in an effort to compel people to pay their fines but as a penalty itself it doesn't do anything to help resolve the situation.
I can empathize with the struggle of having to juggle your time to support your family, go to school, etc, and I can certainly be sympathetic on the "speed trap" and quota front, fined for now showing up to answer to a fine: government does love it's cash grabs doesn't it?
But at the same time she did break the law: no seatbelt, going in excess of the speed limit, etc. And that can't be discounted either. There is a reason why these laws exist and not having to face any kind of penalty for violating them would render them meaningless.
Yeah, and it's pretty conclusive that the reason these laws exist in St. Louis County is to generate revenue.
Did you read the part about the business owner? How about the part where people are pulled over and cited for non-moving violations (seatbelt, registration, whatever) and then not cited for any moving violation? If they weren't committing a moving violation, why were they pulled over?
Yes traffic violations are a way to raise revenue as well as a punishment for speeding, reckless driving, etc. Same as parking violations.
But when you have to go to court you have to go to court. When you are given a fine eventually you'll have to pay it unless you go to court and beat the violation.
Everyone gets tickets (except other cops typically) regardless of salary. My brother used to get speeding tickets all the time... never spent one night in jail. Why? He paid them... go figure.
But when you have to go to court you have to go to court. When you are given a fine eventually you'll have to pay it unless you go to court and beat the violation.
Everyone gets tickets (except other cops typically) regardless of salary. My brother used to get speeding tickets all the time... never spent one night in jail. Why? He paid them... go figure.
I don't think it's necessarily conclusive of that at all. None of those particular violations are exclusive to St. Louis County. If your license is suspended, plates and registration expired, you'd be pulled over and fined in just about any jurisdiction.
And it also seems to me that she didn't learn anything from past experiences.
A couple of fines for speeding. Would a rational person perhaps use a bit more caution with regards to their speed after being cited once or twice for exceeding the speed limit? I think I would, especially if I knew I didn't have the funds to pay the fine.
Now I do think it's stupid to imprison someone for weeks and require a bond even though they can't afford to pay the fines that got them imprisoned in the first place. The process needs to be a lot more expedient than that. But outside of fines, how do we compel people to obey the rules of the road?
We can bitch and moan about these violations, and let's face it, most people do, but at the core there is a reason why these laws are in place.
For instance, you can't park in front of a fire hydrant, and those fines are typically steep. Now, 99% of the time you can park in front a hydrant and not cause a problem, but if there is a fire then seconds count and fire fighters having to work around a vehicle (in whatever way they do) can possibly mean the difference between someone life or death. Literally, in the historically mean of the word. So when you compare that notion with a couple hundred dollars, the fine seems pretty minor. At least to me it does.
The way I look at it is, if the law states I get in my vehicle, do up my seatbelt, come to a complete stop at stop signs, etc, then I'd better do all those things or face the possibility of a penalty if I don't. If you cannot afford the penalty, than I'd think you'd make doubly sure you comply with the law and the rules of the road.
If it was one violation that had escalated to this point, I'd have more sympathy. What she did was bury her head in the sand and choose not to deal with her problems but now they've caught up with her. I can empathize with the impulse to do that, I've been dirt poor and sometimes you do just hang onto the vague hope that tomorrow will bring some solution to a problem that can't be dealt with today. But the reality is, that never happens. You just have to face it. But then she compounded the issue by making the same mistakes over and over again. She has to take responsibility for her part in this.
I do think there are many jurisdictions that push the boundaries when it comes to monetary penalties for traffic or parking violations though. They always say they don't have quotas, but you know damn well that they do. But unless they are completely fabricating violations then they are still only nabbing people that violate some law or regulation.
Well, the good news is that her record will make it almost impossible for her to get a decent job.
But the law must be upheld.
Kris Kristofferson - "The Law Is For Protection Of The People" - YouTube
But the law must be upheld.
Kris Kristofferson - "The Law Is For Protection Of The People" - YouTube
I know you're being facetious but no, of course it's not good news. And in fact that is something that is incredibly stupid. Whether one is jailed for failing to appear in traffic court is not something that should show up in a records search for employemnt. Outside of course of a position in which one has to have a clean driving record.
Fines are necessary in order to compel compliance on the part of drivers. And honestly if you can't comply with the rules of road, then maybe you shouldn't be driving. If the ability to drive your car is so important to you, to get to work or school, then you need to be responsible with it.
I'm not suggesting the domino effect on someone's life is necessarily fair or equitable but at the same time, this woman is not some helpless innocent victim either. Her behaviour is what got her into this mess in the first place. And, as I said initially, were the public better educated on what the process entails (that you cannot be jailed for not being able to pay, but would be jailed for not appearing), it may not have gotten to this point as well. That part is on the municipality for sure, they need to do a far better job with information. But they are not responsible for this woman exceeding the speed limit or not wearing her seat belt or not having adequate insurance. Nor are they responsible for her not addressing any of this either, that's all on her.
By "good news," I mean the system is working the way those who set it up intended.
Depends on what your goal is.
I agree. If she couldn't afford to drive a properly certified car, she could have stayed home and collected welfare.
And the system set up by multiple jurisdictions is what will keep her in this mess for the rest of her life. Again, as the designers intended it.
No, it may possibly be used in an exploitative manner (and damned the consequences) as a cash cow but I doubt it was set up with the intention of ruining people's lives.
What who's goal is?
Right, those are the only two options.
Are you suggesting we allow those who live under a certain income level to own unregistered vehicles? To operate those vehicles without being licensed? To allow income level determine whether or not someone has to obey the rules of the road?
And I've not argued that those within these systems don't use the systems to their advantage. But I'm not going to give her a pass on her own behaviour simply for that reason.
The whole system of the 90-plus municipalities was set up to keep blacks out. In the good ol' days, it was restrictive covenants on housing, forbidding owners to sell to blacks. When that was made illegal is when these housing subdivisions incorporated as municipalities and zone themselves as single-family houses only, thus barring duplexes and apartments, thus barring lower-income people, i.e., blacks. Then when black incomes rose and the value of the housing declined, and blacks moved in anyhow, they started running the game of making revenues from low-level traffic and non-traffic citations, overlapping jurisdictions, non-standard recordkeeping, and suchlike games that make the system impossible to navigate for the poor (guess what race most of the poor are). Since Ferguson, we have reams of data that show black people are disproportionately cited. Balko documents the systematic harassment of Antonio Morgan's business. A St. Louis county police lieutenant was fired for encouraging his officers to target black motorists. Many of these municipalities have outlawed "saggy pants." All aimed at the poor and black.
I'm sure that the city officials and police in St. Louis County would piously recite "These are public safety measures. Any racial effect is purely coincidental and unintended. The public must be protected."
The legislators, prosecutors, judges, and cops who set up the system, who maintain the system, and who fiercely resist any attempt to reform the system.
Pretty much. These municipalities in St. Louis County are mostly bedroom communities. The work is elsewhere, requiring travel. Public transit is at best unreliable, and often nonexistent. Ms. Bolden can't afford rent, food, and fines.
What third alternative do you envision?
No. I suggest unifying the county system, improving public transit, clarifying the rules of driving and living in St. Louis County, and a cessation of the use of poor black people as cash cows.
But it won't happen.
Well, again, the good news is that the system won't either.
They could always do it the Ontario way: If the fine's unpaid, the drivers licence is suspended without notice and you only find out if you check your licence status - or in that surprise announcement the next time the Constable stops you
We would have the same complaints and they'd start counting the beans. What is the percentage and skin color of those losing licenses? Not why they did... just the stats thank you.