North Dakota train crash to heighten oil-by-rail and Keystone debate

[mentalfloss]

North Dakota train crash to heighten oil-by-rail debate as U.S. reviews Keystone pipeline

The train derailment and fire in North Dakota that forced the evacuation of a nearby town is sure to trigger more debate about the safety of transporting oil as the U.S. reviews TransCanada Corp.’s proposal to build the Keystone XL pipeline.

“Any time there is an incident, you have heightened talk and scrutiny on oil transportation,” Brigham McCown, a former director of the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, said in an interview. “It will add to the conversation.”

More than 2,000 North Dakota residents were urged to flee possibly toxic fumes from the fire that engulfed BNSF Railway Co. cars carrying oil after they collided yesterday with another train about 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Fargo. BNSF is owned by Berkshire Hathaway Inc. of Omaha.

While climate change has been the focus of the fight over Keystone, a subset in the debate has been the relative safety of pipelines versus trains as the U.S. State Department weighs whether the project is in the U.S. national interest. The agency has jurisdiction because Keystone crosses the border. The US$5.4-billion project would link Alberta’s oil sands and refineries along the Gulf Coast.

Fourth Derailment

The accident in North Dakota is the fourth major North American derailment in six months by trains transporting crude. Record volumes of oil are moving by rail as production from North Dakota and Texas have pushed U.S. output to the most since 1988 and pipeline capacity has failed to keep up.

“I think this – seemingly yet another rail incident – will add to the clamor,” for more regulation of shipping oil by rail, Tony Hatch, an independent rail analyst based in New York, said in an e-mail.

Critics of Keystone have pointed to pipeline spills in Alabama and North Dakota to show that method of transporting oil carries its own hazards.

“Rail built the West. Rail built most of the towns,” he said in a phone interview. “As a consequence, there are more rail lines going through more populated areas.”

North Dakota train crash to heighten oil-by-rail debate as U.S. reviews Keystone pipeline | Financial Post

 

[captain morgan]

It's a no-brainer... Pipelines leak and rail cars don't

Case closed

 

[mentalfloss]

It's a no-brainer... Pipelines leak and rail cars don't

Case closed

Look at that image.

Case opened.

 

[captain morgan]

Look, what I am especially interested in is to have the ecotards in BC demand that no pipelines enter their pristine province, and instead, opt for rail transport to the ports.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Well, nothing like argument by anecdote to produce all heat and no light.

 

[mentalfloss]

Well, nothing like argument by anecdote to produce all heat and no light.

Anecdote?

You can plainly see a that this kind of event can cause a substantial amount of damage.

 

[captain morgan]

Anecdote?

You can plainly see a that this kind of event can cause a substantial amount of damage.

There are too many politics involved here.

Where is Greenpeace, Forest Ethics and Tides Foundation?.. This isn't the first derailment that has caused serious damage, let alone the many other derailments of crude that pollute the water and soil.

Yet all of these vocal groups that oppose pipelines are eerily silent

FYI - There are presently approvals in place to construct a number of new crude oil loading terminals (railway) that will be handling approx 900,000 bbls per day.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Anecdote?

You can plainly see a that this kind of event can cause a substantial amount of damage.

Yes, anecdote. An anecdote is a brief account of a single incident. Argument by anecdote is the use of an anecdote implying that it is the typical case, in order to support an argument for or against something.

 

[lone wolf]

Rail or pipe.... Both can be made safe if revenues don't over-ride maintenance

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Rail or pipe.... Both can be made safe if revenues don't over-ride maintenance

Roger that.

 

[mentalfloss]

Yes, anecdote. An anecdote is a brief account of a single incident. Argument by anecdote is the use of an anecdote implying that it is the typical case, in order to support an argument for or against something.

Except this is not a single incident, and it's relevance is increasing as more railroads are built.


Trains carrying oil have multiplied across the country as environmental concerns and political maneuvering have delayed approval of a major new pipeline to transport oil to Gulf Coast refineries. The issue may be most crucial for cities in the West, which were often founded and developed by railroads so that main lines go directly through the centers of today's urban areas.

Crude oil shipments by rail have shot up 25-fold in the last several years as producers rush oil from newly developing shale fields to market. California alone has seen a fourfold increase over the last year, with current shipments of about 200,000 barrels a month.

The exponential growth and several accidents in the last half year, including one in Quebec that killed 47 residents in July, has prompted the NTSB to examine potential safety hazards, said Robert Sumwalt, an NTSB board member who is one of those overseeing the investigation. Sumwalt said that the agency should have started the review after a similar crash in Alabama in November, but that it was now focused on finding ways to reduce risks.

LA Times

 

[taxslave]

There are too many politics involved here.

Where is Greenpeace, Forest Ethics and Tides Foundation?.. This isn't the first derailment that has caused serious damage, let alone the many other derailments of crude that pollute the water and soil.

Yet all of these vocal groups that oppose pipelines are eerily silent

FYI - There are presently approvals in place to construct a number of new crude oil loading terminals (railway) that will be handling approx 900,000 bbls per day.

It is clean American oil not dirty Alberta oil. Therefore the corporate interests that fund ecoterrorism in Canada are not interested.

 

[captain morgan]

It is clean American oil not dirty Alberta oil. Therefore the corporate interests that fund ecoterrorism in Canada are not interested.

That's pretty much the bottom line.

By the by, the railroad in question that is at the center of this mess in N. Dakota is owned by Mr. Buffet.

Not such a surprise that there is no outcry from gvt and the various ecotard clubs

 

[mentalfloss]

Well yes, you clearly do not need every sympathetic group to voice it's opinion in order to recognize such an obvious environmental concern.

 

[captain morgan]

Well yes, you clearly do not need every sympathetic group to voice it's opinion in order to recognize such an obvious environmental concern.

Thousands (possibly 10s of thousands) of bbls spilled in addition to a mushroom cloud of toxic smoke doesn't deserve these attentions?

hell, a few ducks got killed at a tailings pond and there were armies of ecotards having conniptions.

Seriously MF, doesn't this strike you as just a wee bit odd?

 

[damngrumpy]

First of all I am not an ecotard but I do not want Enbridge to have a pipeline
across BC they are a lousy company. When they first started public relations
the had a video that took out over a hundred islands trying to show there was
no problem that is just dishonest.
Kinder Morgan is a different story they have proven themselves to be reliable.

 

[captain morgan]

First of all I am not an ecotard but I do not want Enbridge to have a pipeline
across BC they are a lousy company. When they first started public relations
the had a video that took out over a hundred islands trying to show there was
no problem that is just dishonest.
Kinder Morgan is a different story they have proven themselves to be reliable.

Respectfully, you don't know squat about the operations or records of either company. Believing in the marketing and propaganda delivered by lobby groups (read:ecotards) is not an objective source.

Want to look into it and then develop an opinion? Start with analyzing the daily volumes and distances that both company's operate. Further, look into the accidents reported to (and by) the regulatory authorities in all of the jurisdictions in which they operate... Then, and only then can you (or I) make judgement calls.

In the meantime, your heros at Kinder Morgan have received approval in working with Apache to build crude oil terminals that WILL be shipping crude by rail through BC. The combined approved projects will deliver up to 900k bbls PER DAY. It's only a function of time before one of those deliveries runs off the tracks and into Lake Okanagon.

Unfortunately, it will take an event like this to get folks to look at the issue objectively rather than buy the nonsense peddled by Tides, Suzuki and Greenpeace

 

[cj44]

I like Petroleum. By pipeline, train, truck or boat. Petroleum good. Petroleum is the Earth.

 

[gerryh]

A lil late me thinks. This is now old news.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/121045-train-collision-north-dakota-sets.html

 

[pgs]

Yes, anecdote. An anecdote is a brief account of a single incident. Argument by anecdote is the use of an anecdote implying that it is the typical case, in order to support an argument for or against something.

Tell that to the fish in the Chehalis River .The dead fish .