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Tecumsehsbones

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Corporations aren’t people

By Harold Meyerson, Published: November 26

If you thought this “corporations are people” business was getting out of hand, brace yourself. On Tuesday, the Supreme Court accepted two cases that will determine whether a corporation can deny contraceptive coverage to its female employees because of its religious beliefs.

The cases concern two of the most politically charged issues of recent years: who is exempted from the requirements of the Affordable Care Act, and whether application of the First Amendment’s free speech protections to corporations, established by the court’s 2010 decision in Citizens United, means that the First Amendment’s protections of religious beliefs must also be extended to corporations.

The Affordable Care Act requires employers to offer health insurance that covers contraception for their female employees. Churches and religious institutions are exempt from that mandate. But Hobby Lobby, a privately owned corporation that employs 13,000 people of all faiths — and, presumably, some of no faith — in its 500 craft stores says that requiring it to pay for contraception violates its religious beliefs — that is, the beliefs of its owners, the Green family.

In a brief submitted to a federal court, the Greens said that some forms of contraception — diaphragms, sponges, some versions of the pill — were fine by them, but others that prevented embryos from implanting in the womb were not. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit upheld the Greens’ position in June in a decision explicitly based on “the First Amendment logic of Citizens United.” Judge Timothy Tymkovich wrote: “We see no reason the Supreme Court would recognize constitutional protection for a corporation’s political expression but not its religious expression.”

Tymkovich’s assessment of how the five right-wing justices on the Supreme Court may rule could prove correct — but what a mess such a ruling would create! For one thing, the Green family’s acceptance of some forms of contraception and rejection of others, while no doubt sincere, suggests that they, like many people of faith, adhere to a somewhat personalized religion. The line they draw is not, for instance, the same line that the Catholic Church draws.

Individual believers and non-believers draw their own lines on all kinds of moral issues every day. That’s human nature. They are free to say that their lines adhere to or are close to specific religious doctrines. But to extend the exemptions that churches receive to secular, for-profit corporations that claim to be following religious doctrine, but may in fact be nipping it here and tucking it there, would open the door to a range of idiosyncratic management practices inflicted on employees. For that matter, some religions have doctrines that, followed faithfully, could result in bizarre and discriminatory management practices.

The Supreme Court has not frequently ruled that religious belief creates an exemption from following the law. On the contrary, in a 1990 majority opinion, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote that Native Americans fired for smoking peyote as part of a religious ceremony had no right to reinstatement. It “would be courting anarchy,” Scalia wrote in Employment Division v. Smith, to allow them to violate the law just because they were “religious objectors” to it. “An individual’s religious beliefs,” he continued, cannot “excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law.”

It will be interesting to see whether Scalia still believes that now that he’s being confronted with a case where the religious beliefs in question may be closer to his own.

The other issue all this raises: Where does this corporations-are-people business start and stop? Under the law, corporations and humans have long had different standards of responsibility. If corporations are treated as people, so that they are free to spend money in election campaigns and to invoke their religious beliefs to deny a kind of health coverage to their workers, are they to be treated as people in other regards? Corporations are legal entities whose owners are not personally liable for the company’s debts, whereas actual people are liable for their own. Both people and corporations can discharge their debts through bankruptcy, but there are several kinds of bankruptcy, and the conditions placed on people are generally far more onerous than those placed on corporations. If corporations are people, why aren’t they subject to the same bankruptcy laws that people are? Why aren’t the owners liable for corporate debts as people are for their own?

If corporations are going to be given the freedoms that people enjoy, they should be subjected to people’s obligations and restrictions too. I’m not sure how many corporations would think that’s such a good deal.

Harold Meyerson: If corporations have rights, they also should have duties - The Washington Post

To quote Bono: "This is f*ucking brilliant!"
 

Tecumsehsbones

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The gubmint through Obamacare.
Isn't that terrible? Expecting corporations (and other employers) to obey the law! What is this world coming to? Forcing corporations to go against their religious beliefs! Next thing you know, Ford Motor Company, International Business Machines, Inc., and of course the devout and pious XE Security, Inc. won't be allowed to attend the church of their choice!

But have no fear. Gawd hears their cries as they labour under the yoke of oppression, and when you get to heaven, all the corporations you love so much will be there.
 

captain morgan

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In the interplay of the market everyone tries to influence everyone else. Do you think some parties should be exempt from this?

It's a 2-way street.

Ah, the law. Duly passed by a properly elected legislature.

Didn't Angola recently pass some laws?

Yeah, I can see how having to obey the law is a huge, unfair burden on corporations.

From what I read, the Green family IS obeying the laws, albeit, challenging the scope of such.
 

captain morgan

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Global-warming affirmers, Captain?

You may be onto something there Spade

As we all know, Anthropogenic Global Warming is a direct function of the number of people that contribute to the (theoretical) circumstance, hence the reference to anthropogenic.

One would expect that the 'affirmers' would be demanding mandatory compliance and possibly even a eugenics program.
 

MHz

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If corporations are going to be given the freedoms that people enjoy, they should be subjected to people’s obligations and restrictions too. I’m not sure how many corporations would think that’s such a good deal.

Harold Meyerson: If corporations have rights, they also should have duties - The Washington Post
Make corporations people might work out better if the 120 year lifespan in Ge:6 was applied also. Just with banking I can see how the 'other people' would benefit.
 

Spade

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You may be onto something there Spade

As we all know, Anthropogenic Global Warming is a direct function of the number of people that contribute to the (theoretical) circumstance, hence the reference to anthropogenic.

One would expect that the 'affirmers' would be demanding mandatory compliance and possibly even a eugenics program.

As you are aware, Captain, I am an affirmer.
Eugenixs? Perhaps.

One human breath expels 4% CO2.
On average, when resting, one breath is about 0.5 L
So, that's 4% of 0.5 L or 0.02 L CO2
The mass of 1 L of CO2 is 0.001 977 kg
So, in one human breath, there are 0.000 039 54 Kg of CO2
Assuming 16 breaths per minute, that is 0.000 632 64 Kg
But, there are 60 minutes in an hour, 24 h in a day, and 365.25 days in a year.
So, over the course of a year, that's approximately 333 kg/person.
But, there are 7 000 000 000 of us.
That's 2 331 000 000 000 kg or 2 331 000 000 tonnes of CO2
Worse tha cows, we is!
 

captain morgan

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employment law.

I would sure be interested in reviewing the clause(s) in Employment Law that dictate the contraceptive provisions to employees

Proposing to deny some members of their staff full health care based on their gender.


No one is 'denied' anything here, they are free to acquire whatever option they wish on the open market... That's like saying I am 'denied' a Ferrari because my employer won't buy it for me