15, 000 foreign troops to stay, says Afghan president

BaalsTears

Senate Member
Jan 25, 2011
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Santa Cruz, California
(AGI) Kabul, Nov 21 - Afghan President Hamid Karzai said up to 15,000 foreign soldiers could be authorised to stay in Afghanistan after the end of 2014, when the NATO contingent completes its withdrawal, if a draft bilateral agreement with U.S. is approved by the loya jirga, or grand assembly. Karzai made the announcement at the opening of the traditional grand assembly, which began on Thursday and will last four days, gathering around 2,500 tribal leaders, politicians, and elders beneath a colossal tent in Kabul. . .

http://www.agi.it/english-version/w..._foreign_troops_to_stay_says_afghan_president

Are all of you American leftists ok with this?
 

Highball

Council Member
Jan 28, 2010
1,170
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This is a huge political and military mistake. More US troops will come home in a Coffin unfortunately.
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
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Nobody leaves until this clown gets an apology from barry.
 

WLDB

Senate Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Hamid is getting nervous me thinks.

He should be. Most of the country wants to kill him and a lot of his old supporters are disappointed to say the least. He wouldnt last long if foreign troops pulled out completely. I wouldnt be too sad to see him go though I imagine he'd be replaced by someone far worse.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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kelowna bc
Its about money multinationals and about the fact everyone went too quickly from
Iraq and the same people ended up in power after the allies left the country.
Afghanistan if left completely would become a repeat of the problems we had in the
first place. Yes the world should have a hold there and ensure the Taliban does not
return to the seat of government.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
If American forces are stationed permanently in Afghanistan the main beneficiary will be the Chinese who have the money to invest in exploiting Afghanistan's resources.

Can Uncle Sam afford the permanent beans BT, There is a rumour in the news this weeks of trillions of unaccounted for dollars having slipped out of the pentagons hands over the last decade I believe it was. No US forces can't stay anywhere unless they clamp down at home and tighten belts to support Afghan freedom and democracy. They will need help developing all those goodies though.

How much will it cost to save the Philopeens and encircle China at the same time, at least combining the two seems efficient and may save some money, if no aircraft carriers are lost, like the last time.

Its about money multinationals and about the fact everyone went too quickly from
Iraq and the same people ended up in power after the allies left the country.
Afghanistan if left completely would become a repeat of the problems we had in the
first place. Yes the world should have a hold there and ensure the Taliban does not
return to the seat of government.

The allies haven't left Iraq for christ sake who do think sets off the bombs every day? The wests problem with Afghanistan was how to regain and expand the production of the bankers opium which the Taliban screwed with, and you don't think Afghans should be in charge of Afghanistan.


Nobody produces or sells more drugs to westerners than their own proud banking miracle. see Opium Wars
 

BaalsTears

Senate Member
Jan 25, 2011
5,732
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Santa Cruz, California
Can Uncle Sam afford the permanent beans BT, There is a rumour in the news this weeks of trillions of unaccounted for dollars having slipped out of the pentagons hands over the last decade I believe it was. No US forces can't stay anywhere unless they clamp down at home and tighten belts to support Afghan freedom and democracy. They will need help developing all those goodies though.

How much will it cost to save the Philopeens and encircle China at the same time, at least combining the two seems efficient and may save some money, if no aircraft carriers are lost, like the last time.

The United States has been transformed. I guess it's been in the process of transformation for decades. It's only been since 2001 that the transformation has become apparent. Today is the fiftieth anniversary of the death of JFK. I look back at that time and of the zeitgeist of the Americans. I compare it to the prevailing outlook today. The transformation is undeniable. In many ways I've stopped thinking of myself as an American. So perhaps I am not the best person to ask the questions you posed. But here goes.

It's not possible to maintain the American Empire. The costs now exceed the benefits. The United States is in the process of systems collapse itself. One of the casualties is the collapse of the national security consensus. I was once a national security hawk like JFK, George Meany, Scoop Jackson and Ronald Reagan. But I have come to believe that most of what I supported for decades was false. That conclusion is being embraced by millions of former hawks, now turned neo-isolationists.

Russia and Israel, and Saudi Arabia and Israel are now in talks about the post-American order in the Middle East. America is through as the ME hegemon. The longstanding war between Sunni and Shia has been reactivated with the end of the American era.

In East Asia and the Western Pacific the US is losing the ability to act as arbiter. Within a decade the US would lose a naval and air war in that region to China. Most of the nations of that region have figured out what is happening, and taken the breakdown of Pax Americana into account for their own survival.

The most alarming element of all this is the hatred of American for fellow American. This enmity will not turn out well for either the American left or right. Something new is coming. I can't tell what it will be, but I do know that when dynamic equilibrium can no longer be maintained collapse occurs. When a vacuum occurs new forces will rush in to fill the emptiness.

The change that's coming for America will have profound implications for Canada. It is not possible to be so closely aligned with a failing polity and not experience some of the consequences.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The United States has been transformed. I guess it's been in the process of transformation for decades. It's only been since 2001 that the transformation has become apparent. Today is the fiftieth anniversary of the death of JFK. I look back at that time and of the zeitgeist of the Americans. I compare it to the prevailing outlook today. The transformation is undeniable. In many ways I've stopped thinking of myself as an American. So perhaps I am not the best person to ask the questions you posed. But here goes.

It's not possible to maintain the American Empire. The costs now exceed the benefits. The United States is in the process of systems collapse itself. One of the casualties is the collapse of the national security consensus. I was once a national security hawk like JFK, George Meany, Scoop Jackson and Ronald Reagan. But I have come to believe that most of what I supported for decades was false. That conclusion is being embraced by millions of former hawks, now turned neo-isolationists.

Russia and Israel, and Saudi Arabia and Israel are now in talks about the post-American order in the Middle East. America is through as the ME hegemon. The longstanding war between Sunni and Shia has been reactivated with the end of the American era.

In East Asia and the Western Pacific the US is losing the ability to act as arbiter. Within a decade the US would lose a naval and air war in that region to China. Most of the nations of that region have figured out what is happening, and taken the breakdown of Pax Americana into account for their own survival.

The most alarming element of all this is the hatred of American for fellow American. This enmity will not turn out well for either the American left or right. Something new is coming. I can't tell what it will be, but I do know that when dynamic equilibrium can no longer be maintained collapse occurs. When a vacuum occurs new forces will rush in to fill the emptiness.

The change that's coming for America will have profound implications for Canada. It is not possible to be so closely aligned with a failing polity and not experience some of the consequences.

That American on American hate is being fanned as well as the race game and the remnants of the middle class fear the poor and the poor keep multiplying and the halls of justice commerce education banking are all full of the invader already. If we could just hang the goddamn bankers maybe something could be saved. Yeah I think the future is bleak. I'm worried about the already long entrenched old forces before I'm worried about new invasions. Rats in our woodpiles, that's the reason and cause of this disaster. As far as consequences the border might as well not be there, the collapse always falls back through the satellite nations, burning and looting in denial. I think I'll have a drink.
 

Highball

Council Member
Jan 28, 2010
1,170
1
38
Huge political and military mistake. All this will yield is more coffins coming back home with US young patriots in them. Give Hamid to the Taliban and get us out of that cesspool.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
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Toronto
If all US forces left Afghanistan there would be a repeat of what occurred in April 1975 in Saigon. Helicopters fleeing from the roof of the US Embassy.

And from what I hear Vietnam is in a better financial position just because peacetime produces more profit than war
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
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Aether Island
Huge political and military mistake. All this will yield is more coffins coming back home with US young patriots in them. Give Hamid to the Taliban and get us out of that cesspool.

The Empire's foreign wars? Win some; lose some. As for Krazai Karzai, not all puppets are winsome, just ask Giuseppe.

And from what I hear Vietnam is in a better financial position just because peacetime produces more profit than war

Record poppy crop?