Tar sands - Harper's Folly

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djwood

New Member
Apr 2, 2013
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Mildmay, Ontario
Stephen Harper would have us believe that the very salvation of Canada's economy depends on the economic viability of the Alberta tar sands. And that it is absolutely essential for the Keystone and the Northern Gateway Pipeline be approved to get that oil to market at a decent price to make a very costly operation profitable. And he will stop at nothing to do so. This includes dispatching his hapless ministers Peter Kent , environment and Joe Oliver, natural resources, to tell Americans bare faced lies about Canada's environmental record. Is it believable that all of a sudden Harper has found green religion and soon will be inviting David Suzuki to his house for tea and cookies?
Do pigs fly?

Even if his argument was correct that the profits of the tar sands depend on getting these pipelines approved, Canadians need to ask... who really profits? Well according to the Financial Post, one of Harper's closest media allies: " More than two-thirds of all oil sands production in Canada is owned by foreign entities, sending a majority of the industry’s profits out of the country.." No doubt this is probably not a concern to the 1% who hold all the wealth in this country and are the major advertisers in such publication. As such , it follows that publications such as the Post and the Globe and Mail have consistently been running, and that means almost every day, articles and editorials that support Harper's argument for the tar sands. These publications serve the interests of the deep pockets of corporate Canada and so does Harper.

And what does the average Canadian get out of all of this?

Let me again refer to the Financial Post and how they see it: "Internal federal documents have concluded oil sands production is the fastest growing source of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. Scientists and governments from around the world say all sources of the heat-trapping emissions must be dramatically reduced to avoid potentially irreversible changes to the planet’s ecosystems, atmosphere and the global economy from climate change."
I should point out that the above quote comes from an article in the Post dated some 2 years ago which is before the urgent call came out from Harper to green wash the activities of the tar sands and his government.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Vancouver Island
When did anyone start developing tar sands in Canada? How much more oil would they produce and after taking into account the amount of pipeline volume needed for Oil Sands production would there be capacity for all this extra oil?
If all this yet to be extracted tar sands production requires twinning the Northern Gateway and Keystone Xl pipelines I am all for it.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
This includes dispatching his hapless ministers Peter Kent , environment and Joe Oliver, natural resources, to tell Americans bare faced lies about Canada's environmental record.


.... As opposed to the fraudulent logic of East Anglia, the IPCC and Suzuki?

Please, spare me the holier-than-thou sermonizing here

Do pigs fly?


Only to and from Quadra Island where Suzuki uses his oil-spewing outboard to commute to his luxury home.

... And, how dare you call Suzuki a pig


Even if his argument was correct that the profits of the tar sands depend on getting these pipelines approved, Canadians need to ask... who really profits?


Well, let's see.... Hundreds of billions into the Canadian economy to employ tens of thousands, build infrastructure, fund education, healthcare and welfare.... I'd say there is a big benefit to all Canadians

And what does the average Canadian get out of all of this?


See above


Let me again refer to the Financial Post and how they see it: "Internal federal documents have concluded oil sands production is the fastest growing source of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. Scientists and governments from around the world say all sources of the heat-trapping emissions must be dramatically reduced to avoid potentially irreversible changes to the planet’s ecosystems, atmosphere and the global economy from climate change."
.


Got a link, or are we simply to just take your word for this?

 

relic

Council Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,408
3
38
Nova Scotia
Can any of you harperholics explain,with a minimum of bs,if the tar sands are our salvation,and tories are so super dooper,how come Alberta is so far in the hole /
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Can any of you harperholics explain,with a minimum of bs,if the tar sands are our salvation,and tories are so super dooper,

Yes, in absecnce of any other sector that can generate trillions in GDP over the next couple of decades, it's fair to say that the sands are Canada's salvation.

Tories are super-dooper because, well, they just are.

how come Alberta is so far in the hole /

Care to restate your comment or are facts something that is outside your vocabulary

 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,346
557
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Alberta
Tar is a man made product, it's OIL SANDS.

Exactly. But Tar Sands sounds much dirtier, so that is the term used by those who oppose it.

Here's another example:


It is illegal in Canada to hunt newborn harp seals, but heck this little fellow could melt Robert Pickton's icy heart.
 

djwood

New Member
Apr 2, 2013
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1
Mildmay, Ontario
Seems to me the graphics displayed regarding the financial debt are identical to the degradation of Canada's environment. Both done for the sake of economic growth at any cost...the visions of bean counters like Harper, who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
A fiscal debt you can deal with by printing more money or cranking up the tar sands but at what cost to the planet?
To all those great hunters and fishermen out there who want to pass the legacy of wilderness and biodiversity on to their children. Is it worth trading that away to balance Canada's budget or deficit?
 
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Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,346
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Alberta
You could run the same graphics on the state of the environment as a result of tar sands development and their ilk.All done for the sake of ewcono,mic growth at any costs. (The vision of bean counters like Harper.)

A fiscal debt you can deal with by printing more money or cranking up the tar sands but at what cost to the planet?

What do you do for a living?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
You could run the same graphics on the state of the environment as a result of tar sands development and their ilk.

In the absence of your ability to do just that, all you're offering is a whole lotta nuthin'

All done for the sake of ewcono,mic growth at any costs.

Are you one of the entitled that piss and moan that that guvmint doesn't offer you enough freebies? I'm guessing that you are.

Let me ask you; do you have any clue where the money comes from to fund these free lunches?

A fiscal debt you can deal with by printing more money or cranking up the tar sands but at what cost to the planet?


Funny, Germany tried that twice... But it did work, albeit, you needed a pillow case full of money to buy a loaf of bread.

What do you do for a living?


I'll go out on a limb here and guess that it has something to do with 'occupying' things
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Can any of you harperholics explain,with a minimum of bs,if the tar sands are our salvation,and tories are so super dooper,how come Alberta is so far in the hole /

I will make it simpler for you than Cap did. Wether harper is super duper or not depends on if you are a worker or a freeloader. We have no tar sands. We do have oil sands which have energy that the economy needs to keep going and as a source of tax dollars for the freeloaders to get their entitlements as well as looking after the rest of us.
As for Alberta, the only province without a provincial sales tax the rapid development and influx of people from parts of Canada and elsewhere where working for a living is frowned on a great deal of infrastructure is required to keep up. As development levels off infrastructure will catch up and the financial situation will fix its self. One other factor is the lack of capacity to get the product to market causing producers to take a rather large hit on price which is also reflected in the taxes and royalties received by the government.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,346
557
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Alberta
When you have nothing to lose, your house, your car, the ability to feed yourself and your family, it is very easy to speak out against an economic hub like the Alberta Oil Sands. I fly back and forth to Alberta because Ontario does not pay drivers enough for my wife and I to maintain our lifestyle (which is modest at best).

I suppose I could deep six my mortgage, let our single car be repossessed and we could apply for some subsidized housing while I collect welfare and work under the table or maybe I could go back to school and live in a tent.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
Seems to me the graphics displayed regarding the financial debt are identical to the degradation of Canada's environment. Both done for the sake of economic growth at any cost...the visions of bean counters like Harper, who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
A fiscal debt you can deal with by printing more money or cranking up the tar sands but at what cost to the planet?
To all those great hunters and fishermen out there who want to pass the legacy of wilderness and biodiversity on to their children. Is it worth trading that away to balance Canada's budget or deficit?

If a whole lot of us were not working /paying huge amounts of taxes where would your welfare cheque come from?
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,346
557
113
59
Alberta
Well actually what they're mining in Alberta is one step away from grinding up an ashphalt parking lot. Which would likely happen if someone could earn a quick buck on doing it.

Are you talking about Mining or the Oil Fields. They are two different entities. What do you do for a living djwood?

Let me again refer to the Financial Post and how they see it: "Internal federal documents have concluded oil sands production is the fastest growing source of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. Scientists and governments from around the world say all sources of the heat-trapping emissions must be dramatically reduced to avoid potentially irreversible changes to the planet’s ecosystems, atmosphere and the global economy from climate change."
I should point out that the above quote comes from an article in the Post dated some 2 years ago which is before the urgent call came out from Harper to green wash the activities of the tar sands and his government.


Actually Coal Fire is the largest emission. I believe you should talk to India as they are the biggest with China bringing up the rear according to a scientist who was interviewed on CBC Radio a month or so ago.