Billions Have Been Spent on Technology to Find IEDs, but Dogs Still Do It Better

tay

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May 20, 2012
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Why are people still using dogs rather than some kind of fancy IED detection technology?

I think the answer simply is that for bomb detection, dogs work better, and their track record is stronger. In 2010 Lt. Gen. [Michael] Oates gave a report on how many billions of dollars had been spent on creating new technology to battle IEDs. And after all the money they spent and the new things they'd developed, they found that dog teams were still the most effective method.


This is sort of baffling, because you step back and then ask why more money isn't being spent on dogs. Perhaps the answer is that it's easier to lobby for money when you're talking about something that can be invented and created anew rather than something like a dog—already superior as they are.


If they can find something better than a dog team, it would be worth spending the money, because we're talking about saving peoples' lives.




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Billions Have Been Spent on Technology to Find IEDs, but Dogs Still Do It Better
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Why are people still using dogs rather than some kind of fancy IED detection technology?

I think the answer simply is that for bomb detection, dogs work better, and their track record is stronger. In 2010 Lt. Gen. [Michael] Oates gave a report on how many billions of dollars had been spent on creating new technology to battle IEDs. And after all the money they spent and the new things they'd developed, they found that dog teams were still the most effective method.


This is sort of baffling, because you step back and then ask why more money isn't being spent on dogs. Perhaps the answer is that it's easier to lobby for money when you're talking about something that can be invented and created anew rather than something like a dog—already superior as they are.


If they can find something better than a dog team, it would be worth spending the money, because we're talking about saving peoples' lives.




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Billions Have Been Spent on Technology to Find IEDs, but Dogs Still Do It Better
I have no problem with them using dogs, but if they can't bring them home and are abandoning them, that disgusts me. It reflects our baser less compassionate nature. We are better than that or at least we should be.
 

grainfedpraiboy

Electoral Member
Mar 15, 2009
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Actually more is being spent on dogs by both the military and various police services. It has been described to me that when you walk into a room you smell the stew cooking but the dog smells every separate ingredient in it along with each of the separate spices and ingredients in your pantry. This is why you can wrap a piece of crack in a bounce sheet inside a plastic bag and the dog easily smells it much the same way your eyes distinguish millions of different colours and you can easily see different shades of green whereas to some animals who see in black and white they can't tell the difference between red or green
 

Sal

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Sep 29, 2007
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Actually more is being spent on dogs by both the military and various police services. It has been described to me that when you walk into a room you smell the stew cooking but the dog smells every separate ingredient in it along with each of the separate spices and ingredients in your pantry. This is why you can wrap a piece of crack in a bounce sheet inside a plastic bag and the dog easily smells it much the same way your eyes distinguish millions of different colours and you can easily see different shades of green whereas to some animals who see in black and white they can't tell the difference between red or green

that's a great descriptor and explanation of their ability
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Actually more is being spent on dogs by both the military and various police services. It has been described to me that when you walk into a room you smell the stew cooking but the dog smells every separate ingredient in it along with each of the separate spices and ingredients in your pantry. This is why you can wrap a piece of crack in a bounce sheet inside a plastic bag and the dog easily smells it much the same way your eyes distinguish millions of different colours and you can easily see different shades of green whereas to some animals who see in black and white they can't tell the difference between red or green

I read years ago that a good Bloodhound can find a pinch of paint pigment
in an area the size of Manhatten.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
I don't see the popemobile being given to them so they can be close but survive to sniff another day. I've also heard that pepper on your trail wiill make a dog lose the scent with no lasting damage to the dog.

I read years ago that a good Bloodhound can find a pinch of paint pigment
in an area the size of Manhatten.
I'm pretty sure the pig that the dog ran down untill it was a 3 legged pig has a different opinion on why it is called a blood-hound. Should have called it 'You full yet'. If Dad had been home it would have been dead as the pig was more valuable than the dod, truth be told.
 
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MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
I hear bees are looking for some new food? We could train them and they go over obstacles rather than having to go around them, sniffing and eyes in the sky, a twofer if I ever saw one. With my luck I will be the one putting in the 'stabilizer bar' up where the stinger used to be as it helps them fky in a straighter line. (cost cutting measure by the sound of it)
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I have no problem with them using dogs, but if they can't bring them home and are abandoning them, that disgusts me. It reflects our baser less compassionate nature. We are better than that or at least we should be.
Who said anything about abandoning them?

Do you know what these dogs are worth beyond cash value?

I'm now over $5000 into two SAR dogs in training, and that isn't the end of it. All said an done, I might be closer to $20,000, depending on further training. That pales in comparison to the training Police service and Military dogs go through. Those dogs have a price tag of at minimum $26,000, with bare bones training before they're assigned a handler.

I have yet to meet a handler in law enforcement, or military service that would abandon his partner.

I read years ago that a good Bloodhound can find a pinch of paint pigment
in an area the size of Manhatten.
Depending on the environment, and weather, they can hone in on scent pools for several days, even weeks, after they've been laid down.

Airtracking is a little more difficult and very time sensitive.

The decomposition of human bodies changes the soil composition and properly trained dogs can hone in on that for years.

We're coming to the end of the scent tracking now. Next is airtracking. Cadaver tracking is not something I'm looking forward to doing.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Who said anything about abandoning them?

Do you know what these dogs are worth beyond cash value?

I'm now over $5000 into two SAR dogs in training, and that isn't the end of it. All said an done, I might be closer to $20,000, depending on further training. That pales in comparison to the training Police service and Military dogs go through. Those dogs have a price tag of at minimum $26,000, with bare bones training before they're assigned a handler.

I have yet to meet a handler in law enforcement, or military service that would abandon his partner.

thanks good to know, as long as they are well cared for after they do their job, these dogs are saving countless lives and need to be treated as such after they finish their missions
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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London, Ontario
Depending on the environment, and weather, they can hone in on scent pools for several days, even weeks, after they've been laid down.

Airtracking is a little more difficult and very time sensitive.

The decomposition of human bodies changes the soil composition and properly trained dogs can hone in on that for years.

We're coming to the end of the scent tracking now. Next is airtracking. Cadaver tracking is not something I'm looking forward to doing.

I've heard that can be something that can actually be psychologically damaging to some dogs. Have they spoken much about that?
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I've heard that can be something that can actually be psychologically damaging to some dogs. Have they spoken much about that?
They've touched on the impact on both handler and dog.

When we went from just following scents to actually tracking people, then back to scent drags for the practice of it. You can actually see a difference in how the dog reacts to the find. When Mukwa would find a person, you can tell he's ecstatic, hard to call off and wants the attention of the "victim". When he finds a drag, he seems let down, paws at it and calls off easy. Mukooi's all business, so it really depends on the dog.

I'm not sure if a dog will actually understand the loss when he/she finds the area a corps was left, though.

The handlers on the other hand, we've been told of the toll it can take.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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Do you have any idea what would happen to the economy if we weren't pumping a trillion dollars a year into the "security" industry?

Redistribution of wealth, teabagger style.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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London, Ontario
They've touched on the impact on both handler and dog.

When we went from just following scents to actually tracking people, then back to scent drags for the practice of it. You can actually see a difference in how the dog reacts to the find. When Mukwa would find a person, you can tell he's ecstatic, hard to call off and wants the attention of the "victim". When he finds a drag, he seems let down, paws at it and calls off easy. Mukooi's all business, so it really depends on the dog.

I'm not sure if a dog will actually understand the loss when he/she finds the area a corps was left, though.

The handlers on the other hand, we've been told of the toll it can take.

Didn't mean to diminish the impact on the handler, on yourself. It's just that, as a handler, despite how difficult a thing it may be you can rationalize the good that comes out of finding a cadaver. What it means to family and friends who've lost a loved one and need to just "know". How that impacts the individual person, well I can only imagine the toll it can take.

But I do remember, and it was a long time ago so I can't remember where, but I remember hearing about the dismay a dog can have when they find the person and are not rewarded by the attention of the victim.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Didn't mean to diminish the impact on the handler, on yourself.
Oh I know you didn't, lol.

But I do remember, and it was a long time ago so I can't remember where, but I remember hearing about the dismay a dog can have when they find the person and are not rewarded by the attention of the victim.
Oh I'm sure there is, dogs are still goal oriented. All through their training there's a prize, and that prize is praise. From handler, and victim. Come to think of it, we may actually be training in disappointment.

Like I mentioned before, Mukwa, who is for all intents and purposes, is a "snuggleberry hound", lives for the reward of finding the attention at the end of the exercise. While Mukooi, all business. She calls off easy whether its a drag or a person. Returns right to SCB without hesitation. Where she's rewarded in the same fashion Mukwa is. Mukwa is just a more social dog than Mukooi.

The two dogs are unique in so many ways. While Mukwa will tongue hot, (Hot being in the direction the drag or victim went, as opposed to cold, the direction it came from, tongue being what trackers call baying, howling or barking), every time, while Mukooi struggles in silence.

They have strong characteristics, and weak ones. If we could combine the two dogs, they'd be a super dog, lol.

I could see Mukwa being confused with finding a dead body that didn't react to him. While Mukooi would be unphased I think.