Super Genius
Posts: 1,418 
Location: Tula
Location: Tula
June 13th, 2007, 12:14 PM
Quoting karrie
In my religion we have several "dark" Gods, but their function is not that of the Christian devil. A dark or negative power is not a "bad" power. Dark Gods are not after human souls, to ruin them and to cast them to hell. It is just dark and light, negative and positive, chaos and order, life and death. One cannot exist without the other. It is the great duality that keeps the world in balance.
Hmm.
While I have to agree at face value that pagans don't believe in 'a devil', they still believe in dark and light energies and powers to the best of my knowledge. Embracing a concept that many others call evil, devil, what have you, and giving it a place in your lore as a natural and necessary thing, doesn't mean it isn't there. Come ot think of it, I don't know of ANY religion that doesn't discuss the balance between dark and light, positive and negative, good and evil, in some way shape or form. Wording is a trivial matter. It all boils down to discussing the same human issues.
While I have to agree at face value that pagans don't believe in 'a devil', they still believe in dark and light energies and powers to the best of my knowledge. Embracing a concept that many others call evil, devil, what have you, and giving it a place in your lore as a natural and necessary thing, doesn't mean it isn't there. Come ot think of it, I don't know of ANY religion that doesn't discuss the balance between dark and light, positive and negative, good and evil, in some way shape or form. Wording is a trivial matter. It all boils down to discussing the same human issues.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,905
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
June 13th, 2007, 01:06 PM
So the devil is really the opposition to all that God is.1Ki 5:4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.
What that is saying is that God held back all adversaries and the potential of people doing evil for King Solomon.
Which only means that God is in control of the adversary (His agent, the devil) and also to keep the people from doing evil.
So, regardless of what the adversary is called by any belief system, the fact remains that in this world it only exists.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting DocDred
It my understanding, based on the whole of the bible that this world is a testing ground for the harvesting of souls as fruits of God's planting.
What r u on about AJ
So the devil is really the opposition to all that God is.1Ki 5:4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.
What that is saying is that God held back all adversaries and the potential of people doing evil for King Solomon.
Which only means that God is in control of the adversary (His agent, the devil) and also to keep the people from doing evil.
So, regardless of what the adversary is called by any belief system, the fact remains that in this world it only exists.
Peace>>>AJ
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,905
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
June 13th, 2007, 08:29 PM
And it can only be understood in light of the whole bible. Apart from that, we won't know what it is that makes for the adversary.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting RomSpaceKnight
I have figured it out, and that is why I say I understand who Satan is and what is it that makes and adversary.
Satan is a fallen angel of the Abrahamic god. You figure it out.
And it can only be understood in light of the whole bible. Apart from that, we won't know what it is that makes for the adversary.
Peace>>>AJ
Theism Exorcist
Posts: 368
Location: The Capitol
Location: The Capitol
July 4th, 2007, 09:42 AM
That's like asking what religion did mighty mouse start LOL
The devil is an imaginary thing that people attribute all evil to because they can't hold themselves or others accountable for their own actions . Devil is just a metaphor for the latent evil in everysingle person from mother Teressa to Adolf Hitler how we deal with out wicked impulses are what define us either good or evil .
That's like asking what religion did mighty mouse start LOL
The devil is an imaginary thing that people attribute all evil to because they can't hold themselves or others accountable for their own actions . Devil is just a metaphor for the latent evil in everysingle person from mother Teressa to Adolf Hitler how we deal with out wicked impulses are what define us either good or evil .
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 5,930
July 4th, 2007, 03:13 PM
WHAT IS THE DEVIL'S RELIGION?
The Plain Truth
May 1968
HAVE YOU ever heard of a church called, "The Devil's Congregation"? Have you ever seen a sign labeling a building, "Satan's Synagogue"? Have you ever heard a radio program called, "The Devil's Endeavor"? OF COURSE -- NOT!
The god of this present evil world who holds sway over the darkened minds of poor deceived mankind is not so ignorant as to LABEL HIS CHURCH WITH THEIR TRUE NAMES!
But does the Devil HAVE a religion? Does he HAVE churches? And if he does not call them by his name, how can you tell where they are? What would THE DOCTRINES of these churches be -- what does the Devil believe -- or at least what does he try to palm off on others for them to believe?
Does the BIBLE have anything to say about the Devil's religion?
What the Bible Says
The only real SOURCE OF TRUTH to which we can go to find the ANSWERS to these questions is God's own Word! (John 17:17.) Many people today consider the concept of a Devil as ignorant and mythological. They consider Satan to be a mere CONCEPT held by primitive people to explain away the presence of evil in the world.
But then THESE SAME PEOPLE also believe God is a mere concept -- a myth to explain away the presence of creation and good! If you would like to understand more fully, and prove to yourself beyond any shadow of doubt that there is both a real God and a real Devil, then write immediately for the booklet "Does God Exist?" and also for the article "Did God Create a Devil?" Both are completely free of charge or obligation and we will be glad to send them to you.
Surprisingly enough there is a GREAT DEAL of information concerning Satan the Devil, his religion, his way of thinking, his way of doing -- and also the SURE prophecy of God of what will BECOME OF HIS EFFORTS. And there is MORE information concerning this very real Devil in the LAST book of the Bible than there is in the first!
Satan's Job
Satan the Devil, originally called Lucifer, was given charge of this earth along with a number of other angels (Jude 6) -- but he was NOT SATISFIED WITH THE EARTH as his domain. He rebelled against God's way of doing things and tried to take over the throne of God in Heaven by violence -- but did not succeed! "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven [notice that it is SATAN'S IDEA to get to heaven], I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most a High" (Isa. 14:12-14).
This being, who had been given charge by God to take care of the earth, SINNED against his Creator!
"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, TILL INIQUITY WAS FOUND IN THEE" (Ezek. 28:15). By this action of rebellion against the Kingdom of God, Satan the Devil became the "FATHER" of all those who are guilty of sin -- HE was the ORIGINAL sinner! (John 8:44.) Jesus Christ gives a personal, EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT of this particular time of Satan's rebellion when He tells us, "I beheld Satan as lightning FALL from heaven" (Luke 10:1
. You will notice that by Biblical definition it was SATAN who "fell."
Despite the fact that Satan had rebelled against God's Kingdom, His government and authority, he nevertheless still HELD THE OFFICE of responsibility over this earth given to him by God in the first place. In the temptation on the mount Jesus Christ QUALIFIED to take over this rule from Satan the Devil. By His victory over death He is ABLE to take over the rulership of this world AT ANY TIME. But there is a PLAN being worked out here below, and as yet the God of heaven HAS NOT INTERVENED to strip Satan's authority from him -- SATAN IS STILL THE GOD OF THIS WORLD -- "In whom the GOD OF THIS WORLD hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).
Satan does not appear to this world in the clothing that he has deceived this world into thinking the Devil would appear in -- he does not appear with a pitchfork and horns and an evil look on his face.
Whole World Deceived
Satan has done his job well -- "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, WHICH DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD!" (Rev. 12:9.) This great false deceiver has sent out his messengers with soft and oily words to soothe the troubled people on earth into thinking that they can do what they want to and escape God's punishment for sin -- death. Jesus Christ warned about this -- "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENING WOLVES (Mat. 7:13, 15).
In order to deceive the WHOLE WORLD, Satan has used every means available to him. There are many areas on this earth where deceived and ignorant human beings OPENLY WORSHIP THE DEVIL.
Other hundreds of millions ignorantly worship pieces of rock and wood -- big-bellied Buddhas in the Oriental East and dead men's bones in deepest Africa!
Other individuals who are perhaps a LITTLE more educated, Satan has deceived by the millions, getting them to believe that there is NO GOD AT ALL and that one of HIS OWN (Satan's) political systems -- COMMUNISM -- is the answer to mankind's problems! These great numbers of the peoples of the earth are easy for Satan to keep in subjection because of such long-standing ignorance and the fact that Jesus Christ and His Gospel have not been preached to them -- His NAME has not even so much as been mentioned to many millions of these poor, degenerate human beings.
But in the areas of the world where the NAME OF CHRIST HAS BEEN MENTIONED, where even the Word of God, the Bible, is circulated, and where from time to time people even READ that Bible, Satan is very hard pressed and has to be very subtle and clever -- to USE THE NAME of Christ, even to use the Bible, but still to DECEIVE people!
Since Satan feels that HE has been unjustly judged by God, he wants the people of this world to feel that THEY are unjustly judged by God. So he has his ministers tell them that they DO NOT NEED TO OBEY GOD -- that the harsh, cruel God of the Old Testament has now been superseded by the new, loving and kind God of the New Testament. Yet God's says, "While they [Satan's ministers] PROMISE THEM [their converts] LIBERTY, they themselves are the SLAVES OF CORRUPTION: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought into bondage" (II Peter 2:19, RSV). Satan deceives mankind into thinking that he can CONTINUE TO DO AS HE PLEASES AND GET AWAY WITH IT!
Satan's Doctrines
THE DEVIL BELIEVES IN GOD! "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble" (James 2:19). Isn't that amazing -- the Devil himself is not even as deceived as some of those whom he has blinded into thinking that there is no God -- poor foolish atheists who like to ponder the thought of themselves being the descendants of warm ocean slime!
We can plainly see from this scripture that believing in God is NOT ENOUGH! SATAN HIMSELF BELIEVES IN GOD! Using the name of Christ is not enough either, because Jesus Himself prophesied that many would USE His name, but that those many would be false prophets -- servants of the Devil!
Using the name of Jesus Christ is a very dangerous thing -- you must be sure that you are using it THE WAY CHRIST WOULD USE IT HIMSELF! (Col. 3:17.) One historic record God preserves for us is almost humorous if it did not carry the sober realization that the name of Jesus Christ can only be used with extreme caution and according to the will of God.
"Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know [no evil spirit is ignorant of the fact that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God], and Paul I know; but WHO ARE YE? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that THEY FLED OUT OF THAT HOUSE NAKED AND WOUNDED!" (Acts 19:13.)
The Devil has many doctrines (I Tim. 4:1-4) but his CHIEF DOCTRINE is that of REBELLION -- DISOBEDIENCE TO THE LAWS OF GOD -- because he IS A REBEL! His is a system of confusion and he has caused this so-called Christian world to be so CONFUSED that there are over 400 different interpretations of WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS. This cannot be GOD'S Christianity!
http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/witdr.htm
WHAT IS THE DEVIL'S RELIGION?
The Plain Truth
May 1968
HAVE YOU ever heard of a church called, "The Devil's Congregation"? Have you ever seen a sign labeling a building, "Satan's Synagogue"? Have you ever heard a radio program called, "The Devil's Endeavor"? OF COURSE -- NOT!
The god of this present evil world who holds sway over the darkened minds of poor deceived mankind is not so ignorant as to LABEL HIS CHURCH WITH THEIR TRUE NAMES!
But does the Devil HAVE a religion? Does he HAVE churches? And if he does not call them by his name, how can you tell where they are? What would THE DOCTRINES of these churches be -- what does the Devil believe -- or at least what does he try to palm off on others for them to believe?
Does the BIBLE have anything to say about the Devil's religion?
What the Bible Says
The only real SOURCE OF TRUTH to which we can go to find the ANSWERS to these questions is God's own Word! (John 17:17.) Many people today consider the concept of a Devil as ignorant and mythological. They consider Satan to be a mere CONCEPT held by primitive people to explain away the presence of evil in the world.
But then THESE SAME PEOPLE also believe God is a mere concept -- a myth to explain away the presence of creation and good! If you would like to understand more fully, and prove to yourself beyond any shadow of doubt that there is both a real God and a real Devil, then write immediately for the booklet "Does God Exist?" and also for the article "Did God Create a Devil?" Both are completely free of charge or obligation and we will be glad to send them to you.
Surprisingly enough there is a GREAT DEAL of information concerning Satan the Devil, his religion, his way of thinking, his way of doing -- and also the SURE prophecy of God of what will BECOME OF HIS EFFORTS. And there is MORE information concerning this very real Devil in the LAST book of the Bible than there is in the first!
Satan's Job
Satan the Devil, originally called Lucifer, was given charge of this earth along with a number of other angels (Jude 6) -- but he was NOT SATISFIED WITH THE EARTH as his domain. He rebelled against God's way of doing things and tried to take over the throne of God in Heaven by violence -- but did not succeed! "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven [notice that it is SATAN'S IDEA to get to heaven], I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most a High" (Isa. 14:12-14).
This being, who had been given charge by God to take care of the earth, SINNED against his Creator!
"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, TILL INIQUITY WAS FOUND IN THEE" (Ezek. 28:15). By this action of rebellion against the Kingdom of God, Satan the Devil became the "FATHER" of all those who are guilty of sin -- HE was the ORIGINAL sinner! (John 8:44.) Jesus Christ gives a personal, EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT of this particular time of Satan's rebellion when He tells us, "I beheld Satan as lightning FALL from heaven" (Luke 10:1
. You will notice that by Biblical definition it was SATAN who "fell."Despite the fact that Satan had rebelled against God's Kingdom, His government and authority, he nevertheless still HELD THE OFFICE of responsibility over this earth given to him by God in the first place. In the temptation on the mount Jesus Christ QUALIFIED to take over this rule from Satan the Devil. By His victory over death He is ABLE to take over the rulership of this world AT ANY TIME. But there is a PLAN being worked out here below, and as yet the God of heaven HAS NOT INTERVENED to strip Satan's authority from him -- SATAN IS STILL THE GOD OF THIS WORLD -- "In whom the GOD OF THIS WORLD hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).
Satan does not appear to this world in the clothing that he has deceived this world into thinking the Devil would appear in -- he does not appear with a pitchfork and horns and an evil look on his face.
Whole World Deceived
Satan has done his job well -- "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, WHICH DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD!" (Rev. 12:9.) This great false deceiver has sent out his messengers with soft and oily words to soothe the troubled people on earth into thinking that they can do what they want to and escape God's punishment for sin -- death. Jesus Christ warned about this -- "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENING WOLVES (Mat. 7:13, 15).
In order to deceive the WHOLE WORLD, Satan has used every means available to him. There are many areas on this earth where deceived and ignorant human beings OPENLY WORSHIP THE DEVIL.
Other hundreds of millions ignorantly worship pieces of rock and wood -- big-bellied Buddhas in the Oriental East and dead men's bones in deepest Africa!
Other individuals who are perhaps a LITTLE more educated, Satan has deceived by the millions, getting them to believe that there is NO GOD AT ALL and that one of HIS OWN (Satan's) political systems -- COMMUNISM -- is the answer to mankind's problems! These great numbers of the peoples of the earth are easy for Satan to keep in subjection because of such long-standing ignorance and the fact that Jesus Christ and His Gospel have not been preached to them -- His NAME has not even so much as been mentioned to many millions of these poor, degenerate human beings.
But in the areas of the world where the NAME OF CHRIST HAS BEEN MENTIONED, where even the Word of God, the Bible, is circulated, and where from time to time people even READ that Bible, Satan is very hard pressed and has to be very subtle and clever -- to USE THE NAME of Christ, even to use the Bible, but still to DECEIVE people!
Since Satan feels that HE has been unjustly judged by God, he wants the people of this world to feel that THEY are unjustly judged by God. So he has his ministers tell them that they DO NOT NEED TO OBEY GOD -- that the harsh, cruel God of the Old Testament has now been superseded by the new, loving and kind God of the New Testament. Yet God's says, "While they [Satan's ministers] PROMISE THEM [their converts] LIBERTY, they themselves are the SLAVES OF CORRUPTION: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought into bondage" (II Peter 2:19, RSV). Satan deceives mankind into thinking that he can CONTINUE TO DO AS HE PLEASES AND GET AWAY WITH IT!
Satan's Doctrines
THE DEVIL BELIEVES IN GOD! "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble" (James 2:19). Isn't that amazing -- the Devil himself is not even as deceived as some of those whom he has blinded into thinking that there is no God -- poor foolish atheists who like to ponder the thought of themselves being the descendants of warm ocean slime!
We can plainly see from this scripture that believing in God is NOT ENOUGH! SATAN HIMSELF BELIEVES IN GOD! Using the name of Christ is not enough either, because Jesus Himself prophesied that many would USE His name, but that those many would be false prophets -- servants of the Devil!
Using the name of Jesus Christ is a very dangerous thing -- you must be sure that you are using it THE WAY CHRIST WOULD USE IT HIMSELF! (Col. 3:17.) One historic record God preserves for us is almost humorous if it did not carry the sober realization that the name of Jesus Christ can only be used with extreme caution and according to the will of God.
"Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know [no evil spirit is ignorant of the fact that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God], and Paul I know; but WHO ARE YE? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that THEY FLED OUT OF THAT HOUSE NAKED AND WOUNDED!" (Acts 19:13.)
The Devil has many doctrines (I Tim. 4:1-4) but his CHIEF DOCTRINE is that of REBELLION -- DISOBEDIENCE TO THE LAWS OF GOD -- because he IS A REBEL! His is a system of confusion and he has caused this so-called Christian world to be so CONFUSED that there are over 400 different interpretations of WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS. This cannot be GOD'S Christianity!
http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/witdr.htm
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 5,930
July 4th, 2007, 03:55 PM
In Islam the Devil is referred to as Iblis (a word referring to evil devil-like beings). According to the Qur'an, God (called Allah in Arabic) created the Satan out of "smokeless fire", while He created man out of clay. The primary characteristic of the Devil, besides hubris, is that he has no power other than the power to cast evil suggestions into the heart of women and men.
Quoting Vereya
It's not just Christians who believe in the Cevil. So do Muslims, Jews and Zoroastrians.
The devil didn't start any religion, because the devil is am imaginary character, used to make Christians toe the line.
In Islam the Devil is referred to as Iblis (a word referring to evil devil-like beings). According to the Qur'an, God (called Allah in Arabic) created the Satan out of "smokeless fire", while He created man out of clay. The primary characteristic of the Devil, besides hubris, is that he has no power other than the power to cast evil suggestions into the heart of women and men.
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445
July 4th, 2007, 05:44 PM
I like what Karrie was trying to set up .... Yin and Yang concept ... and if I have misunderstood - Karrie my apologies - it was what I took from your posts...right or wrong.
To have the ultimate good force there has to an oppositional force to validate the good for comparison if nothing else....even punishment if the good is not followed and obeyed.
It all sounds so primitive but when you get down to the gritties of life... we remain ever thus in our times of dire extremis.... primitive.
I like what Karrie was trying to set up .... Yin and Yang concept ... and if I have misunderstood - Karrie my apologies - it was what I took from your posts...right or wrong.
To have the ultimate good force there has to an oppositional force to validate the good for comparison if nothing else....even punishment if the good is not followed and obeyed.
It all sounds so primitive but when you get down to the gritties of life... we remain ever thus in our times of dire extremis.... primitive.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 706
February 14th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Quoting lone wolf
what religion do you think the Devil started
New Jersey???
Mayhaps any religion which imposes guilt upon its followers could be the work of a devil. Isn't Faith supposed to lend comfort?
Wolf
New Jersey???
Mayhaps any religion which imposes guilt upon its followers could be the work of a devil. Isn't Faith supposed to lend comfort?
Wolf
Satan [or Ibliess or Beelzebub]
Satan, i.e. Ibliess in Arabic, or Beelzebub as is he called in the Gospel, was called Azazil at the beginning, but later on he was called 'Ibliess'; because he lost God's mercy, i.e. despaired of it completely.
Satan, i.e. Ibliess, was one of genies [: demons or aliens]; he is their father, just like that Adam is our father, but Ibliess died, and so his soul separated from his gaseous body, then God - be exalted – clothed him with an ethereal skin, so that he became like angels.
God - be exalted – admitted him to the ethereal Paradises; because he was pious, and he stayed with the angels in the Paradises; but when God created Adam, He ordered the angels to prostrate themselves to Adam, so they prostrated themselves, except Ibliess who refused and was full of pride [and self-conceit]; so God drove him out of the ethereal paradises and cursed him.
God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 18: 51
Satan, i.e. Ibliess, was one of genies [: demons or aliens]; he is their father, just like that Adam is our father, but Ibliess died, and so his soul separated from his gaseous body, then God - be exalted – clothed him with an ethereal skin, so that he became like angels.
God - be exalted – admitted him to the ethereal Paradises; because he was pious, and he stayed with the angels in the Paradises; but when God created Adam, He ordered the angels to prostrate themselves to Adam, so they prostrated themselves, except Ibliess who refused and was full of pride [and self-conceit]; so God drove him out of the ethereal paradises and cursed him.
God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 18: 51
و إذْ قُلْنا لِلمَلائكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إلاّ إبْلِيسَ ، كانَ مِنَ الجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أمْرِ رَبِّهِ ، أفَتَتَّخِذُونَهُ و ذُرِّيَتَهُ أوْلِياءَ مِنْ دُونِي و هُمْ لكُمْ عَدُوٌّ ، بِئْسَ لِلظالِمِينَ بَدَلا .
The explanation :( And [remind them, O Mohammed,] when We said to the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, and they fell prostrate, all save Ibliess [: Satan.]; he was one of the jinn, and he forsook his Lord's am'r. Will you then [O people] take him and his progeny as patrons rather than Me, when they are enemies to you? Bad is the exchange for the oppressors.)
The interpretation:
- (he was one of the jinn) means: he was, prior to his death, one of the genie [: demons or aliens]; but when he died, he became an ethereal creature.
- (Will you then [O people] take him and his progeny as patrons rather than Me) means: Will you follow him and won't follow Me? And will you follow his progeny: the genies and worship them and will not worship Me?
One of the Arab tribes, in the past, worshipped genies or demons, and said that genies are God's daughters.
- (Will you then [O people] take him and his progeny as patrons rather than Me) indicates that genies existent nowadays are the offspring of Ibliess and that he was their father.
- (Bad is the exchange for the oppressors.) means: Bad is that which you have taken in stead of Me, when you have exchanged the Creator for the creature, and you followed the provided [beings] and left [God:] the Provider, in spite of that they are enemies of you, and whatever they can they will act to destroy you.
I say: there is nothing like "god of the darkness"…etc. There is only One God: the Creator of the universe and of everything. No one is out of the control of God Almighty; but Ibliess pleaded God to give him respite till Judgment Day, and God – be glorified gave him respite as a recompense for his past servitude when he was alive in the World.
Moreover, there is nothing like a battle between the angels and Beelzebub; but he was driven away from Paradise according to God's command.
Devils
http://man-after-death.741.com/1.htm#Devils_
Satan [or Ibliess or Beelzebub]
http://man-after-death.741.com/1.htm#Satan_[or_Ibliess_or_Beelzebub]_
eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com
The interpretation:
- (he was one of the jinn) means: he was, prior to his death, one of the genie [: demons or aliens]; but when he died, he became an ethereal creature.
- (Will you then [O people] take him and his progeny as patrons rather than Me) means: Will you follow him and won't follow Me? And will you follow his progeny: the genies and worship them and will not worship Me?
One of the Arab tribes, in the past, worshipped genies or demons, and said that genies are God's daughters.
- (Will you then [O people] take him and his progeny as patrons rather than Me) indicates that genies existent nowadays are the offspring of Ibliess and that he was their father.
- (Bad is the exchange for the oppressors.) means: Bad is that which you have taken in stead of Me, when you have exchanged the Creator for the creature, and you followed the provided [beings] and left [God:] the Provider, in spite of that they are enemies of you, and whatever they can they will act to destroy you.
I say: there is nothing like "god of the darkness"…etc. There is only One God: the Creator of the universe and of everything. No one is out of the control of God Almighty; but Ibliess pleaded God to give him respite till Judgment Day, and God – be glorified gave him respite as a recompense for his past servitude when he was alive in the World.
Moreover, there is nothing like a battle between the angels and Beelzebub; but he was driven away from Paradise according to God's command.
Devils
http://man-after-death.741.com/1.htm#Devils_
Satan [or Ibliess or Beelzebub]
http://man-after-death.741.com/1.htm#Satan_[or_Ibliess_or_Beelzebub]_
eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,905
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 14th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Opposition is the key word.
God created this world perfect, but place within the ability of the world to cater to the flesh.
The flesh ( call it Eve, woman, mother)then, contains the spirit given of God (Call it Adam, father), are both married and have become one living soul.
Both male and female are both called Adam, for they both equally made in the image of God.
This living soul, then must be tested of what it is, given the disadvantage of being in the fleshly environment, and with spiritual deficiency, must of it's own will seek out the truth of what it in them that drives them to wards that quest.
Therefore, Satan, the devil (Not a spiritual entity as perceived) is the whole of opposition that abides in the flesh that is against God.
The flesh must be overcome as the power of God increases within us, and the value of the flesh decreases to the point where the spirit within mankind has matured.
The world then is set against mankind's achieving that which is good, but not before the inner man has received power from on high to overcome it.
So, the religion (proper word for it) of the devil (Opposition) created by its own blindness to the truth, stumbles and must be freed from it only, by the truth abiding in us, which is the spirit of love.
So, if you really want to understand who or what the devil is, live for the world, reject God, and you will have it all to your own.
For the adversary is nothing but Gods agent, prompting us to seek God in the midst of this life's quagmire.
Peace>>>AJ
Opposition is the key word.
God created this world perfect, but place within the ability of the world to cater to the flesh.
The flesh ( call it Eve, woman, mother)then, contains the spirit given of God (Call it Adam, father), are both married and have become one living soul.
Both male and female are both called Adam, for they both equally made in the image of God.
This living soul, then must be tested of what it is, given the disadvantage of being in the fleshly environment, and with spiritual deficiency, must of it's own will seek out the truth of what it in them that drives them to wards that quest.
Therefore, Satan, the devil (Not a spiritual entity as perceived) is the whole of opposition that abides in the flesh that is against God.
The flesh must be overcome as the power of God increases within us, and the value of the flesh decreases to the point where the spirit within mankind has matured.
The world then is set against mankind's achieving that which is good, but not before the inner man has received power from on high to overcome it.
So, the religion (proper word for it) of the devil (Opposition) created by its own blindness to the truth, stumbles and must be freed from it only, by the truth abiding in us, which is the spirit of love.
So, if you really want to understand who or what the devil is, live for the world, reject God, and you will have it all to your own.
For the adversary is nothing but Gods agent, prompting us to seek God in the midst of this life's quagmire.
Peace>>>AJ
Clever Clogs
Posts: 706
February 15th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Quoting jimmoyer
Oh to hell with the devil.
God – be glorified – said in the Quran 18: 49
وَوُضِعَ الْكِتَابُ فَتَرَى الْمُجْرِمِينَ مُشْفِقِينَ مِمَّا فِيهِ وَيَقُولُونَ يَا وَيْلَتَنَا مَالِ هَذَا الْكِتَابِ لَا يُغَادِرُ صَغِيرَةً وَلَا كَبِيرَةً إِلَّا أَحْصَاهَا وَوَجَدُوا مَا عَمِلُوا حَاضِرًا وَلَا يَظْلِمُ رَبُّكَ أَحَدًا
The explanation: (And the book will be laid, when you will see the sinners fearful of what is in it, saying: "What a book is this that leaves not behind neither minor nor major [sin] without recording it!?" And they will find to be present [the recompense of] what they did; for your Lord does not wrong anyone.)
Genius
Posts: 821
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
February 15th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Those that deny that Satan exists (and God) might think that protects them from him, it doesn't, nor is that a protection from God judging them as He sees fit.
Isa:28:15:
Because ye have said,
We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa:28:16:
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone,
a precious corner stone,
a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa:28:17:
Judgment also will I lay to the line,
and righteousness to the plummet:
and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa:28:18:
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa:28:19:
From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you:
for morning by morning shall it pass over,
by day and by night:
and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa:28:20:
For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Have faith in God.
Quoting Dreadful Nonsense
Satan didn't start any religion, what he put in place was a code of conduct that was the example of how man was to deal with each other. Anybody who tells a lie to another person is following his first example. That would also include any system that is a part of any social structure, Politicians would be an example, another example would be any media that spreads a lie. Newspapers all all other forms of what passes as 'news' have stated that they are not required to tell the truth, go figure on that one.
it's a valid question
Those that deny that Satan exists (and God) might think that protects them from him, it doesn't, nor is that a protection from God judging them as He sees fit.
Isa:28:15:
Because ye have said,
We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa:28:16:
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone,
a precious corner stone,
a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa:28:17:
Judgment also will I lay to the line,
and righteousness to the plummet:
and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa:28:18:
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa:28:19:
From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you:
for morning by morning shall it pass over,
by day and by night:
and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa:28:20:
For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Have faith in God.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 706
February 15th, 2008, 01:20 PM
Quoting MHz
Anybody who tells a lie to another person is following his first example.
Have faith in God.
Have faith in God.
How can man get rid of Satan and the devil suggestion?
Satan and devils are the enemy of sons of Adam.
This is in the Quran 35: 6
This is in the Quran 35: 6
إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ فَاتَّخِذُوهُ عَدُوًّا إِنَّمَا يَدْعُو حِزْبَهُ لِيَكُونُوا مِنْ أَصْحَابِ السَّعِيرِ
The explanation: (Surely Satan is an enemy to you [he works to destroy you]; so take him for an enemy [and follow him not.] He calls his party [to disobey God in this World] only that they [in the Hereafter] may be among the inhabitants of the Blaze.)
To get rid of Satan and the devil suggestion, the following will be of great advantage:
To get rid of Satan and the devil suggestion, the following will be of great advantage:
- Put trust in God Almighty alone, without any associate, whatever may be whether a prophet: like Moses, Jesus or Mohammed, or angels or any other creature.
This is in the Quran 16: 100
إِنَّهُ لَيْسَ لَهُ سُلْطَانٌ عَلَى الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَعَلَى رَبِّهِمْ يَتَوَكَّلُونَ . إِنَّمَا سُلْطَانُهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَتَوَلَّوْنَهُ وَالَّذِينَ هُم بِهِ مُشْرِكُونَ . The explanation: (No power has he over those who believe and put their trust in their Lord.
His power is only on those who follow him and those who are associaters because of him.)
His power is only on those who follow him and those who are associaters because of him.)
- Mention God alone with glorification and gratitude, with much mentioning and remembrance. But do not mention others so much with Him.
God – be glorified – said in the Quran 43: 36
وَمَن يَعْشُ عَن ذِكْرِ الرَّحْمَنِ نُقَيِّضْ لَهُ شَيْطَانًا فَهُوَ لَهُ قَرِينٌ
The explanation: (And anyone whose sight is dim to the admonition [: the Quran] of the Most Gracious [God], We exchange for him a devil who becomes his comrade.)
- Seek the protection, of God alone, against the suggestion of devils.
It is mentioned in the Quran 7: 200
وَإِمَّا يَنزَغَنَّكَ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ نَزْغٌ فَاسْتَعِذْ بِاللّهِ إِنَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
The explanation: (If a provocation from Satan should provoke you, then seek refuge in God; [for] He is All-Hearing [and] All-Knowing.)
Devils
http://man-after-death.741.com/1.htm#Devils_
eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com
Devils
http://man-after-death.741.com/1.htm#Devils_
eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com
Clever Clogs
Posts: 706
February 15th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Quoting look3467
Opposition is the key word.
Therefore, Satan, the devil (Not a spiritual entity as perceived) is the whole of opposition that abides in the flesh that is against God.
For the adversary is nothing but Gods agent, prompting us to seek God in the midst of this life's quagmire.
Peace>>>AJ
Therefore, Satan, the devil (Not a spiritual entity as perceived) is the whole of opposition that abides in the flesh that is against God.
For the adversary is nothing but Gods agent, prompting us to seek God in the midst of this life's quagmire.
Peace>>>AJ
Satan is a spiritual entity.
Jesus was tried by Satan; this is in the Gospel, Matthew 4: 1-11
"1- Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil….
8- Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9- And said to him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.
10- Then said Jesus to him, Get you hence, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve."
The adversary is a rebel against God; the devil prompts man to disobedience; but when man rejects his suggestion, he may then seek the good pleasure of God.
Satan may suggest to any man, even, the prophets.
This is in the Quran 28: 15
Jesus was tried by Satan; this is in the Gospel, Matthew 4: 1-11
"1- Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil….
8- Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9- And said to him, All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.
10- Then said Jesus to him, Get you hence, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve."
The adversary is a rebel against God; the devil prompts man to disobedience; but when man rejects his suggestion, he may then seek the good pleasure of God.
Satan may suggest to any man, even, the prophets.
This is in the Quran 28: 15
فَوَكَزَهُ مُوسَى فَقَضَى عَلَيْهِ قَالَ هَذَا مِنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ إِنَّهُ عَدُوٌّ مُّضِلٌّ مُّبِينٌ
The explanation: (so Moses struck him [on the heart] with his fist, and dispatched him, and said: "This is [some] of Satan's doing; he is surely a manifest enemy.")
eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com eanassir
Clever Clogs
Posts: 706
February 15th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Quoting RomSpaceKnight
Satan, the devil whatever you call him is an invention of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In Sanskrit Devil means little god.
Satan or the Devil is not an invention.
But the god-fearing who avoids the disobedience of God will be attentive to any suggestion of Satan, and will almost avoid it.
While the idolater and the associater who associates others with God [contrary to the First Commandment: that God is One]; such associater will not be alert about the suggestion of the Devil, and will follow him.
This is in the Quran 7: 201-202
But the god-fearing who avoids the disobedience of God will be attentive to any suggestion of Satan, and will almost avoid it.
While the idolater and the associater who associates others with God [contrary to the First Commandment: that God is One]; such associater will not be alert about the suggestion of the Devil, and will follow him.
This is in the Quran 7: 201-202
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ اتَّقَواْ إِذَا مَسَّهُمْ طَائِفٌ مِّنَ الشَّيْطَانِ تَذَكَّرُواْ فَإِذَا هُم مُّبْصِرُونَ . وَإِخْوَانُهُمْ يَمُدُّونَهُمْ فِي الْغَيِّ ثُمَّ لاَ يُقْصِرُونَ .
The explanation: (Those who ward off [God's disobedience] – when a suggestion from Satan provokes them, remember [God's warning], and then see clearly [the wisdom and the exact truth.]
And [the associaters: Satan's] brothers – they increase more in error, and never do they refrain.)
eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com
And [the associaters: Satan's] brothers – they increase more in error, and never do they refrain.)
eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com
