How is it to associate others with God

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
The associating of others with God is the idolatry contrary to the first of God's commandments.
So to understand it and its implication is essential in order to understand the 'exclusive devotion to God alone without associate or son or peer'.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,979
2,073
113
New Brunswick
Technically, believing the prophet Muhammad is the last man who had connection to God is Idolatry.

Christian faith got 'around' it by claiming Jesus "was" God, but it's still Idolatry as he never claimed to be such.

Even the Jewish faith practices Idolatry, IMO, by venerating Abraham and his descendants.

You can't claim that Islam, Christianity or Judaism are free from it.

At least other religions who practice it admit that idol worship is more for the association to the God, rather than the actual God himself. "There is the God and then there is X which represents the God".

So you, Selfsame, are an Idolator.
 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
Technically, believing the prophet Muhammad is the last man who had connection to God is Idolatry.

It is not understood in this way; although Prophet Mohammed is not the last man who had connection to God as you expressed it.

Many nations had a similar contention, like the Egyptians in the past, following Prophet Joseph son of Jacob: Israel; this was at the time of Moses, the Egyptian believed no messenger would follow Joseph; because the Egyptians knew Joseph and believed in him or at least respected him.

So the Egyptian man who wrangled with them in the time of Pharaoh, told them this:

Quran 40: 34
, which means:
{“Joseph [son of Jacob] brought you the clear signs before [400 years ago.]

Yet you ceased not to doubt of [the religion] that he brought you.

At length, when he perished, you said, "God will not send any messenger (or apostle) after him." [And you kept on your disbelief, thinking that God will not bring about a new evidence against you: by sending you a new apostle]

As such does God misguide those indulgent [in wrong-doing] and doubting [about the sending of prophets.] ”
}

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/40.htm#a40_34
quran-ayat.com/pret/40.htm#a40_34

Christian faith got 'around' it by claiming Jesus "was" God, but it's still Idolatry as he never claimed to be such.

Even the Jewish faith practices Idolatry, IMO, by venerating Abraham and his descendants.

You can't claim that Islam, Christianity or Judaism are free from it.

At least other religions who practice it admit that idol worship is more for the association to the God, rather than the actual God himself. "There is the God and then there is X which represents the God".

So you, Selfsame, are an Idolator.

No, I am not; I follow the messenger of God; such obedience in fact is obeying God That sent him.

Quran 4: 80, which means:
{Whoso obeys the messenger [and prepares himself to fight], is obeying God in fact [because the messenger works according to the command of God.]}

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/4.htm#a4_80
quran-ayat.com/pret/4.htm#a4_80
 
Last edited:

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
Every day you come here with your BS, Nassir. And everyday we go through the same thing. No one believes your crap and no one wants to listen to your broken record spinning the same douche every day.

You should be in your bunker or wherever it is you need to hide. The bombs should be there shortly. Mo-HAM-Ed cannot save your sorry as$ from what is coming. If you feel that you must pray, go to the mosque.



This next aya describes the beautiful green fields and lush greenery of the Moo-dle East before the humans - A-rabs - spoiled everything by burning, pillaging and raping. There were even stories of interbreeding.

13:6969 - Moo-ran

It was so nice in the valley where also the Moo-dites lived. Free from A-rabs. Where a cow could graze and laze in the sun. Harvest time was a time full of fresh grass. Kush for all!
---

This aya means that until the A-rabs showed up and started killing everything they could, the Moo-dle East was a nice place to live. But it's a sandy, smelly place now, and has been for a long time. So sad.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
8,979
2,073
113
New Brunswick
It is not understood in this way; although Prophet Mohammed is not the last man who had connection to God as you expressed it.

I think you need to re-read the definition of Idolatry.

Many nations had a similar contention, like the Egyptians in the past, following Prophet Joseph son of Jacob: Israel; this was at the time of Moses, the Egyptian believed no messenger would follow Joseph; because the Egyptians knew Joseph and believed in him or at least respected him.

Most nations at those early days were Polytheistic. Egypt had Ra (one of the various forms, anyway), Isis, Set, Anubis, Thoth, etc. Although even if the story of Joseph is true, it's not the same thing and I don't get where you think this. If you're talking Idolatry, Egypt was full of it...

So the Egyptian man who wrangled with them in the time of Pharaoh, told them this:

Quran 40: 34
, which means:
{“Joseph [son of Jacob] brought you the clear signs before [400 years ago.]

Yet you ceased not to doubt of [the religion] that he brought you.

At length, when he perished, you said, "God will not send any messenger (or apostle) after him." [And you kept on your disbelief, thinking that God will not bring about a new evidence against you: by sending you a new apostle]

As such does God misguide those indulgent [in wrong-doing] and doubting [about the sending of prophets.] ”
}

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/40.htm#a40_34
quran-ayat.com/pret/40.htm#a40_34

Yeah, does not prove anything.

No, I am not; I follow the messenger of God; such obedience in fact is obeying God That sent him.

Quran 4: 80, which means:
{Whoso obeys the messenger [and prepares himself to fight], is obeying God in fact [because the messenger works according to the command of God.]}

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/4.htm#a4_80
quran-ayat.com/pret/4.htm#a4_80

Your Messenger of God is no different than say, the Catholic Pope, or the Head of the Anglican Church or any other religious figurehead. Hell, even the Saints of the Catholic belief. They are the stand ins for God, saying how people should worship, what God says and thinks, etc and so on.

Muhammad was no different than any other God Stand In.

Again, I think you need to read up on the definition of Idolatry because you are saying Muhammad speaks for God as a prophet. That is Idol worship.
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
Serryah, I don't know if you have attempted to have a reasoned discussion with him, but in case you haven't, his response will be (paraphrased), that you do not understand, here's a quote from the Quran that explains or proves...

It's one thing to follow a religion. It's quite another to be so zealous about it that everyone else is wrong and his word is the only correct one. Even Jehovah's Witnesses will go away if you tell them you aren't interested.

He is typical of many Muslims. It makes me wonder what is required to graduate from the University of Baghdad. That allegedly is his alma mater.

He cannot think critically. He relies on his book for every answer. Comets, meteors, floods,. They are all explained in his book. I am sure that where he goes to the washroom when he's away from home must be double checked with the Quran.

Good luck.
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,607
5,250
113
Olympus Mons
Serryah, I don't know if you have attempted to have a reasoned discussion with him, but in case you haven't, his response will be (paraphrased), that you do not understand, here's a quote from the Quran that explains or proves...

It's one thing to follow a religion. It's quite another to be so zealous about it that everyone else is wrong and his word is the only correct one. Even Jehovah's Witnesses will go away if you tell them you aren't interested.
I just find it hilarious when you tell these people their god is a lie and they point to their "holy" texts as proof of its existence.
Which would be like pulling quotes from Lord of the Rings and saying, "Look, Gandalf was a real person".

Many nations had a similar contention, like the Egyptians in the past, following Prophet Joseph son of Jacob: Israel; this was at the time of Moses.
Except Moses most likely didn't exist. The Israelites weren't slaves in Egypt either.
 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
Why do you insist on your falsehood, and follow weird explanations and deny history only to contradict God, the Quran and Mohammed that is truthful?

Anyhow, my words are not directed to any of you: who read much of my words based on the Quran interpretation by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly; but my words are directed to the God-fearing, the pious, the kind-heart not the transgressors. (The wrong-doers will not respond.)

www.quran-ayat.com
quran-ayat.com

==========================================================

Quran 40: 34, which means:
{“Joseph [son of Jacob] brought you the clear signs before [400 years ago.]

Yet you ceased not to doubt of [the religion] that he brought you.

At length, when he perished, you said, "God will not send any messenger (or apostle) after him." [And you kept on your disbelief, thinking that God will not bring about a new evidence against you: by sending you a new apostle]

As such does God misguide those indulgent [in wrong-doing] and doubting [about the sending of prophets.] ”
}

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/40.htm#a40_34
quran-ayat.com/pret/40.htm#a40_34

Yeah, does not prove anything.

And you did not grasp the idea; that people want only to believe in historic persons, and do not want to believe in the new messenger: that is to free themselves from obligations.
Moreover, it is a common stand of all nations against the new messengers of God: to deny them and stick to the old and to their traditions.

Jesus Christ also told the disbelievers among the Children of Israel: you contradict the Commandments of God for your traditions; i.e. you violate the Commandments of God and prefer to them your traditions.

Moreover, Serryah is mysterious so almost he or she is Satanist; or else tell us clearly about your beliefs so we can discuss it or if we see it true, we my then follow your belief!?
 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
Why do you insist on your falsehood, and follow weird explanations and deny history?

I may give you twenty penny if you tell us clearly your belief and your religion, and then we may see TenPenny is truthful in his belief.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
I may give you twenty penny if you tell us clearly your belief and your religion, and then we may see TenPenny is truthful in his belief.
You could never see the truth in another's belief unless it agrees with yours. You are like Mhz with your own interpretation of your book. It is only relevant to you and nobody else.
Here. See if you can follow this stream of thought:

God:
What does the word god represent? For most people it represents an omnipotent entity that created the Universe but is not part of it, which takes a personal interest in our lives. That entity does not exist. It is pure fabrication by an immature, insecure ego that cannot come to terms with its own insignificance.
Let me put it this way:
Horton Hears a Who – Horton was an elephant who hears a voice coming from a spec of dust floating by. He eventually discovers that an entire civilization occupies this tiny spec of dust and they are calling out to see if there are any other life forms out there occupying other specs of dust. Does this sound familiar? We are the Who that Horton hears.
Horton is an entity that occupies a world with a multitude of other entities and this world is just a spec of dust to other worlds occupied by a multitude of other entities… ad infinitum. There is no way that the Who can comprehend who or what Horton is. In our terms, the Who would think that Horton was a god. But Horton did not create anything nor is he any more divine than any other entity.
Taken as a metaphor, the story parallels our own. We occupy a tiny spec of dust in an infinite sea of dust and we are trying to contact other specs of dust (SETI) to see if we are alone or not in the infinite sea. Our comprehension of the vastness of this sea is infinitesimal. We call this sea the Universe and nothing in it exists outside or separate from it. There may be other universes out there but that is a speculation that is of no use to this discussion.
In the beginning:
There was no beginning. There is no end – the very definition of infinity. There was no god who created the Universe if there is no beginning. It would be impossible, just as it is impossible for there to be an end. The space/time continuum is an infinite loop.
Now that we have disposed of the concept of a god, where does that leave us? Well, to answer that we would have to take a different approach.
Our brains are much like a computer and like a computer, they are programmable. We are born fresh, unprogrammed and innocent. We have not yet partaken of the fruit of knowledge. As soon as we arrive, our programming begins. We are indoctrinated into our respective cultures by those who have arrived before us and have, to varying degrees, already been programmed. It is like installing an operating system on a computer.
This is what has been termed the Matrix. The program predisposes our views of reality. This program has taken many thousands of years to develop. Everything is neatly packaged, categorized, named and divided into compartments. There are those among us who, for whatever reason or fluke of events, have escaped the Matrix or at least have seen it for what it is.
Many ancient cultures also had those who saw through the veil. Today we call them shaman but that is an inaccurate term. In some cultures there were those who studied and meditated all their lives to disengage from the Matrix. They were call adepts. No matter the methods, the end result was disengagement from the cultural program.
What one finds there is a whole complex reality far and beyond the Matrix with infinite possibilities and potential.
Spirit:
We talk about the spirit realms as if they are some wondrous and mysterious place beyond our grasp and elevate those who visit there to a higher status. But what is spirit? Spirit is conscious energy that can take on any form to suit the situation or the beliefs of the observer. That is why some people see angels, some aliens, some animals or plants, etc.
At our core we are conscious energy that has taken the form of a human for the purpose of educating ourselves in the truth of our reality, to realize who and what we truly are. And we are so far beyond what we can imagine with the restricted view we have been programmed to accept.
When you look at a solar system, you see almost the same configuration as an atom. If you look at a galaxy you see almost the same configuration as a molecule. One is the microcosm and the other the macrocosm. As above so below, like a Fractal that replicates itself as you zoom in all the way to infinity.

In the quantum world, there is no matter without an observer. You are that observer and everything you witness and experience is dependent on you to exist. Your existence is also dependent on an observer and it is dependent on an observer, ad infinitum. We are one spot on the fractal and yet, we are the fractal.
The point is, who or what creates this Universe is just as much a part of you as you are of it. If you want to call this conscious energy gestalt “god” then it stands to reason that you are also “god”. I prefer to view it as The All That Is. There truly is no separation. We are all One, just that most of us have not realized it yet because most are still stuck in the Matrix. Their ignorance of who they really are is causing a disturbance in the Force (Source) and manifests as destruction.

[youtube]L0roeFpanSI[/youtube]

 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
3,491
0
36
You assert these words and they are not true.
You say things you do not understand: no beginning, and no end .. no end of what?
God is the One doing all this marvels in the universe, and you are going to submit yourself willingly or by loath to God Almighty just following your imminent death, and you will quit of all your assertions of blasphemy and infidelity.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/19.htm#a19_90
quran-ayat.com/pret/19.htm#a19_90
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
You assert these words and they are not true.
You say things you do not understand: no beginning, and no end .. no end of what?



Yes, indeed, you do.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
You assert these words and they are not true.
You say things you do not understand: no beginning, and no end .. no end of what?
God is the One doing all this marvels in the universe, and you are going to submit yourself willingly or by loath to God Almighty just following your imminent death, and you will quit of all your assertions of blasphemy and infidelity.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/19.htm#a19_90
quran-ayat.com/pret/19.htm#a19_90
You react just as expected. Your mind is a closed box, incapable of seeing beyond your preconceived ideas. You are like a parrot or a robot, incapable of thinking your own thoughts. You think that by uttering threats of retribution that you can make me into a robot like you. You are a sad and pathetic excuse for a human being.
BTW: there are no virgins waiting for you in heaven, only goats and sheep.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
6
36
You could never see the truth in another's belief unless it agrees with yours. You are like Mhz with your own interpretation of your book. It is only relevant to you and nobody else.
Here. See if you can follow this stream of thought:

God:
What does the word god represent? For most people it represents an omnipotent entity that created the Universe but is not part of it, which takes a personal interest in our lives. That entity does not exist. It is pure fabrication by an immature, insecure ego that cannot come to terms with its own insignificance.
Let me put it this way:
Horton Hears a Who – Horton was an elephant who hears a voice coming from a spec of dust floating by. He eventually discovers that an entire civilization occupies this tiny spec of dust and they are calling out to see if there are any other life forms out there occupying other specs of dust. Does this sound familiar? We are the Who that Horton hears.
Horton is an entity that occupies a world with a multitude of other entities and this world is just a spec of dust to other worlds occupied by a multitude of other entities… ad infinitum. There is no way that the Who can comprehend who or what Horton is. In our terms, the Who would think that Horton was a god. But Horton did not create anything nor is he any more divine than any other entity.
Taken as a metaphor, the story parallels our own. We occupy a tiny spec of dust in an infinite sea of dust and we are trying to contact other specs of dust (SETI) to see if we are alone or not in the infinite sea. Our comprehension of the vastness of this sea is infinitesimal. We call this sea the Universe and nothing in it exists outside or separate from it. There may be other universes out there but that is a speculation that is of no use to this discussion.
In the beginning:
There was no beginning. There is no end – the very definition of infinity. There was no god who created the Universe if there is no beginning. It would be impossible, just as it is impossible for there to be an end. The space/time continuum is an infinite loop.
Now that we have disposed of the concept of a god, where does that leave us? Well, to answer that we would have to take a different approach.
Our brains are much like a computer and like a computer, they are programmable. We are born fresh, unprogrammed and innocent. We have not yet partaken of the fruit of knowledge. As soon as we arrive, our programming begins. We are indoctrinated into our respective cultures by those who have arrived before us and have, to varying degrees, already been programmed. It is like installing an operating system on a computer.
This is what has been termed the Matrix. The program predisposes our views of reality. This program has taken many thousands of years to develop. Everything is neatly packaged, categorized, named and divided into compartments. There are those among us who, for whatever reason or fluke of events, have escaped the Matrix or at least have seen it for what it is.
Many ancient cultures also had those who saw through the veil. Today we call them shaman but that is an inaccurate term. In some cultures there were those who studied and meditated all their lives to disengage from the Matrix. They were call adepts. No matter the methods, the end result was disengagement from the cultural program.
What one finds there is a whole complex reality far and beyond the Matrix with infinite possibilities and potential.
Spirit:
We talk about the spirit realms as if they are some wondrous and mysterious place beyond our grasp and elevate those who visit there to a higher status. But what is spirit? Spirit is conscious energy that can take on any form to suit the situation or the beliefs of the observer. That is why some people see angels, some aliens, some animals or plants, etc.
At our core we are conscious energy that has taken the form of a human for the purpose of educating ourselves in the truth of our reality, to realize who and what we truly are. And we are so far beyond what we can imagine with the restricted view we have been programmed to accept.
When you look at a solar system, you see almost the same configuration as an atom. If you look at a galaxy you see almost the same configuration as a molecule. One is the microcosm and the other the macrocosm. As above so below, like a Fractal that replicates itself as you zoom in all the way to infinity.

In the quantum world, there is no matter without an observer. You are that observer and everything you witness and experience is dependent on you to exist. Your existence is also dependent on an observer and it is dependent on an observer, ad infinitum. We are one spot on the fractal and yet, we are the fractal.
The point is, who or what creates this Universe is just as much a part of you as you are of it. If you want to call this conscious energy gestalt “god” then it stands to reason that you are also “god”. I prefer to view it as The All That Is. There truly is no separation. We are all One, just that most of us have not realized it yet because most are still stuck in the Matrix. Their ignorance of who they really are is causing a disturbance in the Force (Source) and manifests as destruction.

[youtube]L0roeFpanSI[/youtube]



Oye! Mandelbrot is one of those Zionists! Gevalt!