Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.


French Patriot
+1
#1
Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Jesus indicated that doing unto others as we would want done to us was a commandment.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, goes against the Golden Rule and Jesusí commandment.

None of us would want to be punished for someone elseís sin, yet Christians ignore Jesusí commandment and eagerly consent to let Jesus suffer for the sins they have done so that they might escape their just punishment.

From what Jesus said, Christians are showing that they are not fit for heaven as they do not follow Jesusí commandment and thus do evil.

Should Christians step up and make themselves fit for heaven by rejecting substitutionary atonement?

Regards
DL
 
DaSleeper
#2
 
Danbones
+2
#3  Top Rated Post
i would think a creator would rather see his creations on their feet
not on their knees

IF it ever comes down to it, I'll take responsibility for my own actions

don't kneed no saviour

wwwyoutubecomwatchvzKhEw7nD9C4


so be it
 
damngrumpy
+1
#4
The biggest problem with all of this is Jesus Christ did not intend to become
the leader of the Christian Church Jesus was attempting to bring Judaism
through a reformation much like the Protestant Revolution with Martin Luther.
The whole Christian thing got carried away with reformers who were more
interested in their own legacy fighting for power and direction of the young
church.
Not so? Well Jesus became the figure head of the four gospels as it would
be today four guys trying to sell their alliterative works and peddling it as the
truth. In the end the struggle came down to four gospels as a compromise
and depending how you read them the are at times contradictory.
Add he fact there are several other gospels Timothy, Mary Magdalen and the
other Apostles, Depending on what is contained in those texts the Christian
Faith might look very different. In fact it might have centered on a reformed
Jewish text and there would be no Christianity as we know it.
Then again Reformed Jews stole a message from a Jewish Reformer and
created Christianity. Later the Roman Empire stole the Christian Faith from
the Christians, I speak of Constantine and took it from a left of center approach
to a very right wing religion such as it is in many cases today.
Christians are no better and no worse than most other religions created by man.
Remember Inspired by God and Written by God are two entirely different things
God did not write a single word of Biblical text keep that focused in your mind.
No where does God put his signature on parchment
 
Remington1
#5
From what I remember, in the Catholic faith, all souls go to Purgatory. According to the teaching, Purgatory is a third place where some souls can remain for years. Prayers and omens can help purify them. Writing says that Jesus absorbed the sins for his children, but not their impurities. Parishioners can request special prayer by donating to the church, or burn special candles displayed inside the church, which also are used to say prayer for the 'limbo's of the Fathers'. These funds are different than the money put in a basket passed during mass, the money collected here are for the upkeep of the church (electricity, cleaning, wage and food for the priest, grounds, cemetery, activities for youths, et..).
 
French Patriot
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by DanbonesView Post

i would think a creator would rather see his creations on their feet
not on their knees

IF it ever comes down to it, I'll take responsibility for my own actions

don't kneed no saviour

so be it


You show the right morality as compared to DaSleeper (external - login to view)


He does not believe in the Golden Rule it seems.


Nice to see you man up as compared to that morality lacking child.

Regards
DL
 
Tecumsehsbones
#7
FP is the Milo of religion.
 
French Patriot
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The biggest problem with all of this is Jesus Christ did not intend to become
the leader of the Christian Church Jesus was attempting to bring Judaism
through a reformation much like the Protestant Revolution with Martin Luther.


Snipped for brevity but you see 20/20 on this.


Can I have your thinking on the morality of substitutionary atonement?


Regards
DL

Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1View Post

From what I remember, in the Catholic faith, all souls go to Purgatory. According to the teaching, Purgatory is a third place where some souls can remain for years. Prayers and omens can help purify them. Writing says that Jesus absorbed the sins for his children, but not their impurities. Parishioners can request special prayer by donating to the church, or burn special candles displayed inside the church, which also are used to say prayer for the 'limbo's of the Fathers'. These funds are different than the money put in a basket passed during mass, the money collected here are for the upkeep of the church (electricity, cleaning, wage and food for the priest, grounds, cemetery, activities for youths, et..).



You are basically correct and many Christians believed that Catholic lie while some others, like Martin Luther recognized the lie and broke away from the liars.


httpwwwyoutubecomwatchv3P1YplwPzxQ




Regards
DL
 
DaSleeper
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by French PatriotView Post

You show the right morality as compared to DaSleeper (external - login to view)


He does not believe in the Golden Rule it seems.


Nice to see you man up as compared to that morality lacking child.

Regards
DL

And you are just a religion spouting troll

The proof is on the number of forums, you post the same Bullshyte...

https://www.google.ca/#q=%22Christia...or%22&filter=0 (external - login to view)
 
French Patriot
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

And you are just a religion spouting troll

The proof is on the number of forums, you post the same Bullshyte...

https://www.google.ca/#q=%22Christia...or%22&filter=0 (external - login to view)



If you used your time to actually attack the message instead of the messenger, you might gain points.


All you show is how small a mind you have.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt


Regards
DL
 
DaSleeper
#11
 
Ludlow
#12
Let's hear it one time for Jerry Lee FP. " and what is your quest?".
 
Jinentonix
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by French PatriotView Post

Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Jesus indicated that doing unto others as we would want done to us was a commandment.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, goes against the Golden Rule and Jesusí commandment.

None of us would want to be punished for someone elseís sin, yet Christians ignore Jesusí commandment and eagerly consent to let Jesus suffer for the sins they have done so that they might escape their just punishment.

From what Jesus said, Christians are showing that they are not fit for heaven as they do not follow Jesusí commandment and thus do evil.

Should Christians step up and make themselves fit for heaven by rejecting substitutionary atonement?

Regards
DL

Ummmm, since Jesus already "died for our sins", how is he suffering today? The act of forgiveness requires you to not just simply ask for it, but to atone for it as well through some act of contrition towards the person/people you have wronged. The message today seems to have been twisted to mean you can be as evil as you want, just go see a priest or recant on your deathbed and you're golden.
 
French Patriot
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by JinentonixView Post

Ummmm, since Jesus already "died for our sins", how is he suffering today? The act of forgiveness requires you to not just simply ask for it, but to atone for it as well through some act of contrition towards the person/people you have wronged. The message today seems to have been twisted to mean you can be as evil as you want, just go see a priest or recant on your deathbed and you're golden.


We have no evidence that a Jesus died not that he had the power to absolve anyone of any sin.


If a Jesus truly died, then the resurrection would either be a lie or proof that Jesus did not die. Dead people stay dead.


I agree that the church has twisted the message and have many people doing the satanic thing of trying to accept the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty as somehow good.


Regards
DL

Quote: Originally Posted by LudlowView Post

Let's hear it one time for Jerry Lee FP. " and what is your quest?".



httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvST86JM1RPl0




Regards
DL
 
bluebyrd35
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by French PatriotView Post

Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Jesus indicated that doing unto others as we would want done to us was a commandment.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, goes against the Golden Rule and Jesus’ commandment.

None of us would want to be punished for someone else’s sin, yet Christians ignore Jesus’ commandment and eagerly consent to let Jesus suffer for the sins they have done so that they might escape their just punishment.

From what Jesus said, Christians are showing that they are not fit for heaven as they do not follow Jesus’ commandment and thus do evil.

Should Christians step up and make themselves fit for heaven by rejecting substitutionary atonement?

Regards
DL

I feel we are all responsible for our acts and therefore lean towards we get it right or we pay for it, either now or in the next existence. I came across this odd bit of history looking for something else this morning and I think this is perhaps the best thread for it.

''The lives of President Kennedy and President Lincoln had so many parallels that it cannot be dismissed as pure coincidence. To my mind, these parallels are evidence of history repeating itself and evidence of reincarnation. To me, these parallels may be circumstantial evidence that President Kennedy was the reincarnation of President Lincoln. You decide for yourself.

Both were directly involved with black civil rights. Both lost a son while serving as President. Both were killed while serving as President.

Lincoln's staffer, whose name was Kennedy, advised him not to go to the theater. Kennedy's secretary, whose name was Lincoln, advised him not to go to Dallas. Lincoln was fond of Monroe, Maryland (He had visited it a week before he was shot). Kennedy was fond of Marilyn Monroe.

Both were shot on a Friday. Both were shot in the head from behind. Both were shot in the presence of their wives. Both were shot while sitting with another couple.

Both were shot with another member of their entourage being injured, but not fatally. Lincoln was shot in Ford's Theater. Kennedy was shot in a Ford Lincoln.

Both assassins were born in ‘39. Both were Southerners favoring extremist views. Both are known by their first, middle and last names. Booth ran from the theater and was captured in a warehouse. Oswald ran from the warehouse and was captured in a theater. Both were themselves assassinated before their trials.

Both President’s successors were Southern Democrats. Both successors had the last name of Johnson. Both successors were Vice-Presidents. Both successors were born in ‘08. Both successors were former senators.

Both President’s caskets were carried in death on the same caisson.

It appears that history does indeed repeat itself. Perhaps it is the same cast of characters playing the same roles over and over again. I think William Shakespeare was right all along: All the world is a stage and we are but the players.''


This is an excerpt from "The Reluctant Messenger"
 
Corduroy
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by French PatriotView Post

None of us would want to be punished for someone elseís sin




Your argument here is a little murky but I suppose this is what it rests on. You say "none of us" but surely there must be some people willing to suffer for other people's sin, I think you see it happen quite frequently. So if some Christians were willing to die for someone's sin, they wouldn't be breaking the Golden Rule when they accept Jesus for doing the same.

But you aren't comparing like to like here. The Golden Rule really only applies to human relationships. If Jesus sacrifices himself for people, people can't reciprocate because in the internal physics of "sacrifice for sin" people aren't sacrificed for God's sin. And if you're talking about people sacrificing themselves for others people's sins, it doesn't work like that either.
 
MHz
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by DanbonesView Post

i would think a creator would rather see his creations on their feet
not on their knees

IF it ever comes down to it, I'll take responsibility for my own actions

don't kneed no saviour

so be it

Once you enter the grave you will. That is what the Bible is about, there is one way back from the grave and God gathers everybody rather than just a few. That is why He is called the God of the Living rather than God of the some of mankind. Once He does that for you and everybody you have ever loved you will start to appreciate having Him around. Eventually it will be for many reasons but all in it's time.
Until then the only way to get His approval is to take care of those who are less fortunate than you are. That message is 2 verses long so if believers can't understand that little bit then it is no wonder the rest of the book is also a mystery to them.
It would appear that fake news has been around for a long time and keeping that out of the news will get all the effort it needs.

If anything Christians are worse off than the benefactors of gifts from above. Religion is a business with merchandise for sale in case the free gift of salvation is too high a price to pay. Did I mention that people that use His name for gain pay twice as much if it ends up being for personal gain?

The book does come with it's own warning and from my POV you can tell a lie and have it believed by everybody or tell the truth and have it believed by nobody.

(1611 KJV Preface in part)
The Translators To The Reader
Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, deserveth certainly much respect and esteeme, but yet findeth but cold intertainment in the world. It is welcommed with suspicion in stead of love, and with emulation in stead of thankes: and if there be any hole left for cavill to enter, (and cavill, if it doe not finde a hole, will make one) it is sure to bee misconstrued, and in danger to be condemned.

Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

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Your argument here is a little murky but I suppose this is what it rests on. You say "none of us" but surely there must be some people willing to suffer for other people's sin, I think you see it happen quite frequently. So if some Christians were willing to die for someone's sin, they wouldn't be breaking the Golden Rule when they accept Jesus for doing the same.

But you aren't comparing like to like here. The Golden Rule really only applies to human relationships. If Jesus sacrifices himself for people, people can't reciprocate because in the internal physics of "sacrifice for sin" people aren't sacrificed for God's sin. And if you're talking about people sacrificing themselves for others people's sins, it doesn't work like that either.

One aspect not covered for obvious reasons is that Jesus came for all flesh that ever had life rather than just mankind. God killed and animal to make some clothes for Adam and Eve. If you guessed it was a lamb then you gain 1 point with God. If not you don't and the contest is now closed)
Jesus will create a feast for birds and animals and then He kills them as flesh that does not know the difference between good and evil will not survive the fire that God sends on the earth when Satan is sent to the fiery lake. To make up for those two sins all flesh that had life on this earth will have it restored when the new earth begins.

Ho:4:3:
Therefore shall the land mourn,
and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish,
with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven;
yea,
the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

Eze:36:20-23:
And when they entered unto the heathen,
whither they went,
they profaned my holy name,
when they said to them,
These are the people of the LORD,
and are gone forth out of his land.
But I had pity for mine holy name,
which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen,
whither they went.
Therefore say unto the house of Israel,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
I do not this for your sakes,
O house of Israel,
but for mine holy name's sake,
which ye have profaned among the heathen,
whither ye went.
And I will sanctify my great name,
which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them;
and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD,
saith the Lord GOD,
when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

The flesh that is not in Adam and Eve's image is based on the 4 beasts standing around the throne in Re:4. Think of them as the parents of God and the Holy Spirit so the other flesh is like naming your first born after them as that is who they are modeled after.

What have people been doing with the book for the last 2,000 years if this is coming as news??
 
French Patriot
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post

I feel we are all responsible for our acts and therefore lean towards we get it right or we pay for it, either now or in the next existence. "


Sniped for brevity.


That is the right moral position.


The rest was interesting but I do not believe in reincarnation.


Have you noticed that at reincarnation conferences, there are usually more than one who claim to be the same famous personage.


Regards
DL

Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Your argument here is a little murky but I suppose this is what it rests on. You say "none of us" but surely there must be some people willing to suffer for other people's sin, I think you see it happen quite frequently.


--------------------Sorry, the quote function does not work for me.
--------------------Willing or not, I have never heard of a judge punishing the innocent and letting the guilty walk.


So if some Christians were willing to die for someone's sin, they wouldn't be breaking the Golden Rule when they accept Jesus for doing the same.


------------------ They would be going directly against scriptures and advocating for injustice.




---------------------Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the ------------------------iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


-----------------------Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death ---------------------------------because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.


------------------------Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for ----------------------------the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be ------------------------------upon himself.


But you aren't comparing like to like here. The Golden Rule really only applies to human relationships. If Jesus sacrifices himself for people, people can't reciprocate because in the internal physics of "sacrifice for sin" people aren't sacrificed for God's sin. And if you're talking about people sacrificing themselves for others people's sins, it doesn't work like that either.


Scriptures say that God is supposed to return and set up his law and those laws should apply to man and God. For God to say do as I say and not as I do would be quite wrong as he would be putting himself above his own law.


The scenario of someone else taking another's punishment is patently unjust as it ignore the victim of the sin.


Imaginer yourself the victim of rape by your neighbor and seeing an innocent man punished and your neighbor returning next door.


You as a victim would not only live in fear of another attack, but would also never get closure for the first one.


Both demanding substitutionary punishment or accepting it as justice is immoral as it promotes injustice to the victim of the sin as well as the innocent victim who suffers for the guilty.


Regards
DL
 
Ludlow
#19
FP is full of shyt.
 
bluebyrd35
#20
No I have not experienced anything of the sort, Probably because I have never attended those meetings you refer to, I have formed my beliefs over my lifetime.

Firstly, I did research the beginnings of Christianity and after discounting the Adam and Eve scenario, using common sense,history and scientific discoveries as to how species have evolved and how and where our journey traced back to, did i form my beliefs, When I read about Constantine and the Council of Nicaes AD 325 and the books that he excluded from the Bible, I went looking for those books that were excluded, I found the Gnostic books, Next I read about Constantine & his wife, and found why he wanted all reference to reincarnation removed. Why he figured just removing them from the bulk of biblical literature would change paying for his crimes I haven;t an idea,

Then there were my personal experiences, I had several of those following the deaths of very close family members, Children played tricks and the adult actually touched me and talked to me, After getting over my fright ( I was alone at the time) I realized these events were tailored specifically to my situation at the time.

Since then, some events I realized were payback by me and others to me, On the whole, very satisfying,

The Bible was written for those who existed at the time and i am sure it did form a decent basis for morality, But isn't it time to take it a bit further, I realize that every wrong a person does, must be righted and I think the wronged person is not always ready (spiritually) to accept repayment. Just my opinion (belief)

If this so, I suspect there will be a heck of a lot of circling between existences for some time to come.
Last edited by bluebyrd35; 3 weeks ago at 04:35 PM..
 

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