We believe in the revelation to all the prophets without exception


selfsame
#1
We believe in the Quran that was revealed to us, and in what had been revealed to Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and his sons, the Ten Commandments and the Torah revealed to Moses, the Psalms of David, the books of the prophets revealed to them from their Lord, and the Gospel revealed to Jesus the son of Mary and the apostles.

Quran 3: 84, which means:
{Say [Mohammed] "We believe in God [alone, and we assign no associate with Him],

and in what [revelation] has been revealed to us,

and that revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, the Tribes [: sons of Prophet Jacob]

and the [books and miracles] which Moses and Jesus and [the revelations and proofs which] the prophets received from their Lord;

we make no discrimination between anyone of them
e, and to Him we have submitted [ourselves f.]"}
.................................................. ...............

84 e As you discriminated, O Jews, when you denied Jesus and Mohammed.
84 f In compliance to His commands.


quran-ayat.com/pret/3.htm#a3_84 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat(dot)com
Last edited by selfsame; Oct 11th, 2016 at 03:13 PM..
 
Cliffy
#2
Just because you believe something to be true, doesn't make it true. It is just you opinion.
 
selfsame
#3
The aya before this one:

{3: 83. What [religion], other than the religion of God, is that these [Jews and Christians] crave a,
while to Him is resigned whosoever is in "the heavens and the earth" [: the planets including the earth
b], willingly or unwillingly c, and to His [judgment] shall they return [after death d]!?}
.................................................. .........................

83 a In spite of all these proofs and evidences indicating the truthfulness of Mohammed? Isn't God's religion "the exclusive devotion to Him alone" - to which He recommended all the prophets and apostles: to worship God alone and not to associate with Him any created thing nor any created being?

Didn't Mohammed bring the religion of "the exclusive devotion to God alone" and to discard the idols and the rivals or peers?

Can they find any religion better than the religion of "the exclusive devotion to God alone"?

83 b i.e. all the inhabitants of the planets including the earth submit themselves to this religion and admit that God is One, to Whom the exclusive devotion is due.

83 c i.e. some of them submit themselves willingly of their own accord, and others submit themselves after their death when the truth becomes evident to them and they see the angels and the punishment, so they submit loathly.

83 d So He will punish them according to their disbelief and association.

quran-ayat.com/pret/3.htm#a3_83 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat(dot)com

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Just because you believe something to be true, doesn't make it true. It is just you opinion.

Such are the excuses of disbelievers to ignore the truth.
Have you read it or you just said this without studying the subject?
 
Cliffy
+1
#4
Bla bla bla! Do you ever think for yourself?
 
selfsame
+1
#5
I think for myself, but I find the truth in the Quran and so I have believed.

Do you yourself think, or just you deny with your stubbornness?

================================================== ================

That was before the aya 3: 84; now this is the aya following it:

Quran 3: 85, which means:
{Anyone seeks any religion, other than the Islam, [his righteous work] will not be accepted from him [because the past religions were altered g],
and he shall, in the Next Life, be of those who lose [the prosperity of Paradise.
h]}
.................................................. ...................

85 g By the hand of the ‘chiefs of sects’ and by the ‘scholars of error and misguidance’; so that they changed and altered with their desires, and then said: This is what God commanded and instructed in His Torah; but they were liars against God, for the purpose of their personal advantages and for the wealth and position.

While the Islam religion is the true religion which God commanded people to follow in the past and at the present time, because it is the standard religion till Doomsday; and its followers do not worship idols as did you, Jews, worship, and as did you, Christians, claim about the Trinity, while Muslims exclusively devote themselves to God alone.

85 h So that anyone seeks any religion other than the Islam, will lose the prosperity of Paradise.

quran-ayat.com/pret/3.htm#a3_85 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat(dot)com
 
Cliffy
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

I think for myself, but I find the truth in the Quran and so I have believed.

Do you yourself think, or just you deny with your stubbornness?

I have my own faith. It comes from studying many religions and spiritual teachings and my personal experiences with the divine. You should try it some time. There is much more to life than can be contained in one book.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Just because you believe something to be true, doesn't make it true. It is just you opinion.



Same as if you don't believe something I suppose.
 
selfsame
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I have my own faith. It comes from studying many religions and spiritual teachings and my personal experiences with the divine. You should try it some time. There is much more to life than can be contained in one book.

Do you think that the belief is only according to the logical thinking and is based on much knowledge or on science degree?
No, it is not.

The guidance is by God's hand; the truth is evidently obvious, but if God wants to guide anyone who is worthy of the guidance and who is prepared for the guidance .. this one God guides, and he will be guided rightly.

While if one is not guided by God, who does not deserve the guidance .. this one God will not guide.

The guided is the kind-hearted who helps people specially the weak and the poor.
While the one who is not guided: he is the wrong-doer .. so this one will not be guided whatever you explain to him.
Get it?

See this aya of the Quran 4: 88, which means:
{How is it with you [Muslims] that you have become two parties [with two opinions] concerning the hypocrites a,

while in fact God has immersed them [in their sins
b] because of [their transgression on people and the sins] that they earned?

Do you [Muslims] desire [then] to guide [to the Islam and invite to it] those whom God has misguided [because of their wrong-doing]?

Whom God misguides [from the way of truth], you [men] will not find for him any way [to be saved and be guided aright.]
}
.................................................. ..........................

88 a One party are certain that those men are disbelievers, and the other party are certain that they have become Muslims.

Had they truly become Muslims, then they would have come back to you; but they in fact are disbelievers, so don't decide that they are Muslims.


88 b i.e. God has drowned them in their sins and transgression.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Bla bla bla! Do you ever think for yourself?

Where is Ludlow? Is he in vacancy?
And you substitute him concerning his duty?
 
Cliffy
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

Do you think that the belief is only according to the logical thinking and is based on much knowledge or on science degree?
No, it is not.

No, it is based on a person's relationship with his/her maker (however you perceive that to be). The truth cannot be contained in words. The truth is in the heart and cannot be translated to vocabulary because words are open to translation and interpretation. The truth can only be experienced.

Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Same as if you don't believe something I suppose.

A friend asked the other day, "when does a thought cease to be a thought and become an opinion?" I said. "when it leaves your lips".
 
taxslave
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

We believe in the Quran that was revealed to us, and in what had been revealed to Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and his sons, the Ten Commandments and the Torah revealed to Moses, the Psalms of David, the books of the prophets revealed to them from their Lord, and the Gospel revealed to Jesus the son of Mary and the apostles.

Quran 3: 84, which means:
{Say [Mohammed] "We believe in God [alone, and we assign no associate with Him],

and in what [revelation] has been revealed to us,

and that revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, the Tribes [: sons of Prophet Jacob]

and the [books and miracles] which Moses and Jesus and [the revelations and proofs which] the prophets received from their Lord;

we make no discrimination between anyone of them
e, and to Him we have submitted [ourselves f.]"}
.................................................. ...............

84 e As you discriminated, O Jews, when you denied Jesus and Mohammed.
84 f In compliance to His commands.


quran-ayat.com/pret/3.htm#a3_84 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat(dot)com

You are an idiot.
 
selfsame
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

No, it is based on a person's relationship with his/her maker (however you perceive that to be). The truth cannot be contained in words. The truth is in the heart and cannot be translated to vocabulary because words are open to translation and interpretation. The truth can only be experienced.


A friend asked the other day, "when does a thought cease to be a thought and become an opinion?" I said. "when it leaves your lips".

This is not very correct.
Unless you admit the truth, it does not mean you adopt it.

E.g. when you eat or drink or have any bounty you should thank God for it, because man will be asked about the bounties did he show gratitude for them or not.
So once, I was with Abu abd-Allah, and I ate something or drank water I don't remember exactly .. so he said: I haven't heard you say: Thanks to God!
I said: I do thank God always (I meant by that that I believe and my condition implies that I admit the gratitude for God)
He said: No, you should utter it, so that if someone is near to you, he may also be reminded to thank God.

Then I understood it: the angel who writes the deeds of man: how can he write it unless you utter it!?

But of course, to remember God within the heart, is very good; the man who works righteous deeds, like spending a schilling in secret for the sake of God, he will go to Paradise in heaven.

While the one who spends a million dollar publicly; it is not necessarily he will go to Paradise; I read this in the interpretation of the Quran.

quran-ayat(dot)com
 
Cliffy
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

This is not very correct.
Unless you admit the truth, it does not mean you adopt it.

E.g. when you eat or drink or have any bounty you should thank God for it, because man will be asked about the bounties did he show gratitude for them or not.
So once, I was with Abu abd-Allah, and I ate something or drank water I don't remember exactly .. so he said: I haven't heard you say: Thanks to God!
I said: I do thank God always (I meant by that that I believe and my condition implies that I admit the gratitude for God)
He said: No, you should utter it, so that if someone is near to you, he may also be reminded to thank God.

Then I understood it: the angel who writes the deeds of man: how can he write it unless you utter it!?

But of course, to remember God within the heart, is very good; the man who works righteous deeds, like spending a schilling in secret for the sake of God, he will be go to the Paradise in heaven.

While the one who spends a million dollar publicly; it is not necessarily he will go to Paradise; I read this in the interpretation of the Quran.

quran-ayat(dot)com

Did not Jesus chastise the Pharisees for making a public spectacle of their faith? It goes without saying that an attitude of gratitude is the best way to live your life. But saying it out loud is just grandstanding and is frowned upon by those who matter.
 
selfsame
#13
The righteous work and charity is secret is better than the work in public; but both are good; of course on condition that such public charity is nor for showing to others.

Quran 2: 271, which means:
{If you [believers] give [your] alms overtly, it will be excellent [to give the alms openly.]

But if you conceal them, and give them to the poor [in secret], it will be better for you [before God, than giving the alms overtly]: and [God] will delete for you [some] of your [venial] sins [because of your alms-giving];

for God is All-Aware of what you do [: so that He will reward you according to your acts.]
}

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly
quran-ayat.com/pret/2.htm#a2_271 (external - login to view)
quran-ayat(dot)com
 
Murphy
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

You are an idiot.

You won't get any arguments from most here about that. He waited the standard two days before posting from the Book of Lies. That's because he was waiting for advice on what and how to post. He has advisors that tell him how to respond to certain posts.

And speaking of lies...

 
darkbeaver
#15
God comes in twenty-inch x six pieces of maple, yellow birtch, ash, small animals , anything withBTU's

Winter, remember that? I hope you have your nuts and berries gathered up. No politics overrule the time it is in the Northern Hemisphere, we fear winter, you pretenders can wait
 
Cliffy
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

God comes in twenty-inch x six pieces of maple, yellow birtch, ash, small animals , anything withBTU's

Winter, remember that? I hope you have your nuts and berries gathered up. No politics overrule the time it is in the Northern Hemisphere, we fear winter, you pretenders can wait

But he brings the wisdom of the desert. That should warm your heart.
 
Ludlow
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

God comes in twenty-inch x six pieces of maple, yellow birtch, ash, small animals , anything withBTU's

Winter, remember that? I hope you have your nuts and berries gathered up. No politics overrule the time it is in the Northern Hemisphere, we fear winter, you pretenders can wait

hickory gives off a nice heat too
 
Cliffy
+1
#18
 
bluebyrd35
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

This is not very correct.
Unless you admit the truth, it does not mean you adopt it.

E.g. when you eat or drink or have any bounty you should thank God for it, because man will be asked about the bounties did he show gratitude for them or not.
So once, I was with Abu abd-Allah, and I ate something or drank water I don't remember exactly .. so he said: I haven't heard you say: Thanks to God!
I said: I do thank God always (I meant by that that I believe and my condition implies that I admit the gratitude for God)
He said: No, you should utter it, so that if someone is near to you, he may also be reminded to thank God.

Then I understood it: the angel who writes the deeds of man: how can he write it unless you utter it!?

But of course, to remember God within the heart, is very good; the man who works righteous deeds, like spending a schilling in secret for the sake of God, he will go to Paradise in heaven.

While the one who spends a million dollar publicly; it is not necessarily he will go to Paradise; I read this in the interpretation of the Quran.

quran-ayat(dot)com

Well, I do not thank God for what I worked hard for! He had nothing to do with growing the food, canning it, cooking it. So why am I thanking him when i eat it?? All those children who die around the world of starvation, disease etc, why would they thank Him for their hardships. Now if He suddenly appeared and spread easy living around for all, I as well as many others would thank Him.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Be inaccurate and hysterical for you are made of memes.
 
Serryah
+2
#21  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by selfsameView Post

The guidance is by God's hand; the truth is evidently obvious, but if God wants to guide anyone who is worthy of the guidance and who is prepared for the guidance .. this one God guides, and he will be guided rightly.

Found this part interesting, Selfsame.

Are you saying that God can't guide whoever? Because, who are YOU to say God has not guided Cliffy, or myself, or any others? Who is to say that despite your interpretation of the Quran, you are right? Only God has the right to judge and you are not God, thus you cannot say who is and is not the guided.
 
Remington1
#22
The 'Study of Religion' is one of the most interesting subject which I would recommend to everybody. As posted on this site, there are lots of positive parts in the Quran, but there are a lot of really really violent parts as well which I believe most Muslims are filtering out, because it is clear that ISIS has not done so, here are a few:

"The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and even butchered captives. He inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members were slaughtered".

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,
Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them …” Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.
Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions."
Quran (9:41) - This one clearly contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).
**Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: Cutting off someone's head while shouting 'Allahu Akbar' is not a 'perverison of Islam', but a tradition of Islam that began with Muhammad.* In this passage, a companion recounts an episode in which he staged a surprise ambush on a settlement: "I leapt upon him and cut off his head and ran in the direction of the camp shouting 'Allah akbar' and my two companions did likewise"
 
Murphy
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1View Post

The 'Study of Religion' is one of the most interesting subject which I would recommend to everybody. As posted on this site, there are lots of positive parts in the Quran, but there are a lot of really really violent parts as well which I believe most Muslims are filtering out, because it is clear that ISIS has not done so, here are a few:

"The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule...SNIP

Yes, it is always good to study the various religions, even if you are not a believer. You gain an understanding of how others think. In selfsame's case however, discussion is pointless. He quotes endlessly from a book without actually understanding the hypocrisy of Islam. He denies that Muslims kill and destroy things daily. Disagree and your are told 'you hate' or are 'plotting against Islam'.

There is no need to plot or slander Islam. In the Internet age, we have video, sound, still pictures and eyewitness testimony that demonstrates the evil of Islam and its followers. Muslims kill and destroy things in the name of Allah or Muhammad, and do so with no remorse. If we never saw another picture or video footage of another Muslim atrocity, any court in the world would have enough evidence to convict over and over.

Islam is a cancer that must be expunged before it destroys the planet. If that sounds harsh, it comes from witnessing the horrors first hand. Innocents are hurt or killed every day. Religion is used as excuse by most Muslim men to control as much as they can around them. They smile at you, all the while plotting how they can gain possessions or advantage. When caught, they hide behind their religion, as if breaking the law is somehow alright, because Mohammad or the Quran said it was okay.

I saw the ugliness too much. I listened to Muslims look into the eyes of others and invoke taqiyya - lying - because they were talking to infidels, or other Muslims, with whom they wished to gain an advantage. Yeah, it's okay because Mo said so. WRT Muslims, they accuse each other of being unfaithful to the religion whenever it suits them. Women and children are especially vulnerable to these accusations. Get caught lying, and hey accuse you of being a liar yourself or untrue to Islam. It would be comical, if it didn't cause so much heartache or trouble.

I believe that selfsame practices taqiyya, but the people of this board are intelligent enough to recognize a liar when they see one. I, and others, will call him on it as needed.
Last edited by Murphy; Oct 25th, 2016 at 07:23 PM..
 
lone wolf
+2
#24
So ... if I threaten you with lakes of fire or lightning, thunder and brimstone, eternal damnation and sand fleas, are you going to abandon your beliefs and come over to my side? We have cookies, y'know

I thought not. Means you're as bad as us infidels

Spout some ink and hide that
 
Dexter Sinister
+2
#25
Okay, everybody open a Bible or a Quran at any random page, and if there's a prescription for correct behaviour there, do exactly what it says. Do that every day. Last one to be imprisoned wins.

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

We have cookies, y'know

I think you'd do better offering pie and ice cream. I'd join you for pie and ice cream. Make that apple pie and neapolitan ice cream, with a side of chocolate chip oatmeal cookies, and a good dark roast coffee, you can own me.
Last edited by Dexter Sinister; Oct 26th, 2016 at 01:18 AM..
 
selfsame
#26
Muslims are other than the Islam; as are Christians and Jews other than the teachings of Jesus and Moses.

Jews, Christians and Muslims are in a valley, while Jesus, Moses and Mohammed are in another valley.

Therefor, if anyone, like Murphy or others, who purposely condemns Muslims, with true or false; he should condemn his people before anyone else.

In the Quarn, God commanded Muslims to say to others: that they believe in the previous prophets and the revelations they had received from their Lord, as also Muslims do believe in the Quran revealed to them from God.

This is to confirm that the sender and the revealer is the same One God Who sent for the past prophets as did he sent and revealed to Mohammed: the same teachings in pure form without distortions, and bringing milder duties to alleviate the heavy duties imposed on Jews and to confirm the statements for Christians who almost have not practice that: i.e. the Islam is midway between the heavy complicated duties of Jews and between the non-observance of Christians.

The central part of God's revelation is that the religion and obedience and submission should be to God alone without associate or son or parents or equals or peers.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#27
Ain't it past time you blew yourself and a dozen other Muzzies to bits for the glory of Allah, coward?
 
Johnnny
#28
 
Curious Cdn
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Ain't it past time you blew yourself and a dozen other Muzzies to bits for the glory of Allah, coward?

... a school bus full of Jewish children, no doubt ...
 
selfsame
#30
In the Islam, God commanded in the Quran that Muslims should believe in Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the rest of the prophets without discrimination.

In addition, anyone who does not believe in the Islam, which is the last of the heavenly religions, then the righteous work of such one will not be accepted from him, because the previous religions have been distorted but only the recent religion of the Islam should be adopted for belief and practice, and the one who does not believe in the Islam will lose in the Next Life, and will not go to Paradise because he denied the one whom God sent with the Quran.

So I tell this to people, and they should not listen to the words and lies of the opponents of God's religion, which includes the First Commandment to worship God alone.

These people who spread such antagonistic propaganda are only the tempatation for man: to see will he believe truly, or will he not believe.
 
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