Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

This quote speaks of God choosing Jesus as a human sacrifice to take our just punishment for our sins. Dogma says that we cannot redeem ourselves from God condemnation. 1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement as judge and shows the setting and accepting of a bribe or human sacrifice to corrupt his justice. That justice usually stated that only the punishment of the guilty was acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent. The corruption of God’s usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

Recognizing that by whatever name you would use, sacrifice, ransom, bribe or payment, would you say such an immoral request and legal injustice would most likely be demanded by a God or by a Satan?

If punishing the innocent is not a just and moral thing to do, I would say that Satan would be the one to ask or demand such a sacrifice.

That would have Satan ruling heaven and not God as a good God would not do such an immoral thing.

Do you agree that Satan is more likely to ask for us to accept an immoral human sacrifice to bail us out than God would?

If you agree, does that indicate that Satan was ruling in heaven and not God on that day?

Regards
DL
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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God is Satan in many ways as fundamentalists from several religions
have warped messages to suit themselves and their goals ISIS can
anyone tell me they are working for God as they claim? If so we are in
trouble.
Then there is the fundamentalist Christians and Jews who claim only
their little group is going to heaven. Can you imagine what a judgmental
hell hole heaven would be with those groups in charge of the condo
governance through heavenly strata clauses? The Devil looks more
appealing all the time eh?
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
2,005
30
48
God is Satan in many ways as fundamentalists from several religions
have warped messages to suit themselves and their goals ISIS can
anyone tell me they are working for God as they claim? If so we are in
trouble.
Then there is the fundamentalist Christians and Jews who claim only
their little group is going to heaven. Can you imagine what a judgmental
hell hole heaven would be with those groups in charge of the condo
governance through heavenly strata clauses? The Devil looks more
appealing all the time eh?


Yes. Satan is not near as blood thirsty as God and his followers.


More are recognizing this daily and that is why religions are having a tough time.


Happy days.


Regards
DL
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
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Calgary, AB
I don't care about your nailed god or his fallen angel. My days are spent preparing for Ragnarok, and I shall stand with the Aesir when they battle the jotunns and Loki's spawn.
 

selfsame

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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

The one who rules heaven and the earth and everything in existence is God Almighty and Most Gracious.
This is today, yesterday and tomorrow.
Satan is only a created being like you and me, but he was one of the genie; he was their father, just as was Adam our father.
He was righteous in his material life of the World, then he died and went to Paradise or heaven on account of his worshpping God exclusively devoting his worship to Him alone.
But later on he disobeyed his Lord, and refused to prostrate himself to Adam because of his self conceit, so God drove him out of Paradise and send him down to the earth.
Then Satan appealed to God to give him respite and not to punish him immediately, and so God gave him respite till Judgment Day or Doomsday.
He cannot control anything contrary to the will of God, and he has no authority on man other than his suggestions or evil inspirations; so he has control only on those who follow him step by step.
http://www.quran-ayat.com/man/1.htm#Satan_[or_Ibliess_or_Beelzebub]_
 
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selfsame

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Both are figments of someone's overactive imagination.

Both of them exist, but of course no way of comparison between the Creator and the created being.
His name was Azazil, and was with the angels in Paradise, but he conceived pride and loftiness and became proud over the angels; so God - be glorified - made a trial of Satan and the other angels:
He created Adam out of putrid wet dust, which was the decayed corpse of a dead man in a grave, then He commanded the angels and Satan was with them, to prostrate themselves to Adam, the thing which Satan refused to do out of his pride; so he rebelled, opposite to what all angels did: they prostrated themselves to Adam, except Satan who rebelled against the command of God.
So he was driven out of Paradise in heaven and was commanded to go down to the earth, and if he tries to approach the ethereal heaven, he will be pelted by meteors.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/man/1.htm#Satan_[or_Ibliess_or_Beelzebub]_
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
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The one who rules heaven and the earth and everything in existence is God Almighty and Most Gracious.
This is today, yesterday and tomorrow.
Satan is only a created being like you and me, but he was one of the genie; he was their father, just as was Adam our father.
He was righteous in his material life of the World, then he died and went to Paradise or heaven on account of his worshpping God exclusively devoting his worship to Him alone.
But later on he disobeyed his Lord, and refused to prostrate himself to Adam because of his self conceit, so God drove him out of Paradise and send him down to the earth.
Then Satan appealed to God to give him respite and not to punish him immediately, and so God gave him respite till Judgment Day or Doomsday.
He cannot control anything contrary to the will of God, and he has no authority on man other than his suggestions or evil inspirations; so he has control only on those who follow him step by step.
Man after Death[or_Ibliess_or_Beelzebub]_


Who was there to record all that you have put about God and Satan?


Before you answer, please give this scholar a listen.


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html


Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."


Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.


"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."


Regards
DL

 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Milton in Paradise Lost.. quoting Satan - "it is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven". God left the same decision to all of us.. claim the ransom payed for us in service.. or accept the penalty (or 'reward') of our pride..
 

selfsame

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Neither will yours.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
-Christopher Hitchens, I think.

When Jesus - salam to him - came and invited Jews to believe that God is One and to abandon the glorification of others apart from God Most Gracious; they denied him, as you deny.
And when Mohammed came and preached the monotheism and the 'exclusive devotion to God alone', the Jews and others denied him, as you deny.
Moreover, even when Moses came and brought the Ten Words inscribed by God on the stone tablets, the seventy Israelites who were waiting below the mountain also denied and said: "Who believe this is from God?"

This is in the Quran about this event and the towering of the Mount Hor or El-Tor above them:
94. And remember [O Children of Israel], that We made a covenant with you
[not to associate anything with God],
and We caused the [Mount] Hor to tower above you a,
[and We said to them]: 'Hold fast with [the religious laws] which We have given you, with firm [will and certainty], and hear [Our words and comply.]'
They said: 'We hear and we disobey b.'
And [the love of] the calf was effusive into [the pericardium of] their hearts; because of their infidelity c.
Say [Mohammed, to them:] 'An evil belief is that which enjoins on you [such conductd] if [indeed] you are true believers [as you claim e.]'
…………………………………………………………………
a When the mountain inclined upon them, and they were below it.
b i.e. their acts became as if they say: "We hear and we disobey"; because they did not comply to their Lord's command and did not work accordingly, save only a little bit.
c Because they were used to worship the idols in Egypt, before Moses came to them.
d i.e. if your faith or belief enjoins on you such conduct, then it will be an evil faith or belief.
e When you said: “We only believe [exclusively] in [the Torah] that was revealed to us."

Milton in Paradise Lost.. quoting Satan - "it is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven". God left the same decision to all of us.. claim the ransom payed for us in service.. or accept the penalty (or 'reward') of our pride..

Satan will be punished in Hell together with his followers, and he will not reign. He is only given respite by God so that He did not punish him and postponed his punishment to Doomsday; and such respite was on account of his righteous deeds during his material life on earth in this life of the World. He lived then died and his soul went to Heaven together with the angels because he had been righteous.
Then in Heaven he grew proud and had self conceit, so God commanded him to go down to the earth and to leave Heaven, and so he came down to the earth.

When Satan and his followers will be in Hell, they will start to blame him, and he will answer them; as it is in the Quran 14: 22, which means:

(22. And Satan [will] say when the matter [will] have been over d:
"God [surely] promised you [with the reward and punishment] a promise of truth [and you did not listen to His words and did not work according to His command.]
While I promised you [with lying and deception], then I deviated you [from the truth, to follow my words.]
Even I had no authority over you [so as to compel you], but only that I invited you [by suggesting and deceiving] and you responded to me [according to your bad choice.]
So don't blame me [about the punishment that inflicted you], but blame yourselves [because you refrained from God’s command and followed me without any proof.]
[for] I cannot [now] rescue you [from the punishment] nor can you rescue me; I deny e your former act of associating me [with God in the obedience];
[Then God told us about the condition of wrong-doers and He said:] There awaits wrong-doers a painful torment.)
.....................................................
d And when the repentance and regret will be useless.
e It means: I deny [your associating me with God] and blame you for your responding to me without any proof or argument.
 

selfsame

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What possessed God to give Jesus up as a sacrifice? The Devil made him do it hhehehee

Jesus was an apostle, and was not any sacrifice.
If Jews believed the apostle of God, they would prosper; but they denied and rejected Jesus, and even tried to kill him, but God saved him from their wickedness.
So if they believed him, they would prosper, but they denied him and denied his apostles: peter, philippus and the others, so they were utterly destroyed by Titus at 70 AC. And they were scattered in every country as a punishment for their disbelief.

This is in the Quran 3: 54-55, which means:
( 54. Then, the [Jews] devised plotting [against Jesus, so as to kill him],
and God devised [against them, so that He made another man similar to Jesus in shape whom they crucified, and Jesus was saved from them];
the Best of devisers b is God.

55. And when God said, "O Jesus, I will [make you die and] take you [to Me] and raise you c up to Me, and purify you from those who unbelieve [who are filth and unclean d]; I will [also] make those [Christians] who follow you superior e to those [Jews] who unbelieve till the Day of Judgment. Then shall you [all] return to Me f, and I will judge between you concerning the matter [of Jesus] wherein you dispute. g

56. And concerning the unbelievers, I shall chastise them with a severe chastisement in the [life of the] World h and the Next Life i, and they will have no helpers [to save them from God's punishment.]

57. As for those who believe j, and work the righteous work, He will fully pay them their wages [in the Next Life].
God does not love wrong-doers k.)
...................................................
b i.e. the most just and fair among devisers; because the devising is two kinds: good and evil; like His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 35: 43, which means:
(But the evil plotting overwhelms only those who do it.)
The evil plotting is the perfidy and hypocrisy; while the good plotting is like that you invite a man to goodness and righteousness, but he refuses that, so you plot for him and he will have benefit and advantage because of your plotting for him, and such plotting is good and plausible.
c i.e. raise your spirit to heaven, because the true man is the soul, while the body will tear up and become dust.
d i.e. so that they will not outstretched their hands to hurt you. This is indicated by His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 9: 28, which means:
(O believers, the associaters are indeed unclean; so let them not approach the Inviolable Mosque [for pilgrimage] after this year of theirs [in which this soora was revealed.])
e in authority, victory and dignity.
f i.e. all of you, following your death, will come to the souls world, and I will deal with you.
g For Jesus died and his aethereal soul went up to heaven; the period from the time of the Christ to the prophet-hood of Mohammed was 570 years, and from the time of the exodus of Moses and his people out of Egypt to the time of Jesus was 1515 years.
h By killing, imprisoning, taking them captives, driving the out of their homeland and taking the tribute from them.
i in the Fire.
j In Jesus the apostle of God.
k Who wrong people and violate their rights.

The interpretation is according to the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.