Pope shines up his ginormous brass balls, excommunicates the whole damn Mob


Locutus
#1
(CNN) -- Using his strongest language to date, Pope Francis told Italian Mafia members on Saturday that they are excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

"Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said in an outdoor Mass in Piana di Sibari, Calabria.

It is the first time a Pope has spoken of excommunication for the Mafia. Excommunication, which excludes Catholics from the church, can be imposed by church authorities or incurred automatically for certain grave offenses.

The Pope's remarks will resonate strongly in this part of southern Italy, where the Mafia are known to attempt to portray themselves as upstanding religious men in good rapport with the Catholic Church, in order to maintain local credibility.

During a one-day visit to Calabria, the Pope denounced the local mafia, called 'Ndrangheta, as an example of "the adoration of evil and contempt for the common good."

According to reports, 'Ndrangheta is one of the wealthiest international crime organizations, with an annual turnover of 53 billion euros ($72 billion), much of it from the global cocaine trade.

Calabria also suffers from 56% youth unemployment, which the Mafia exploits with promises of jobs for disillusioned young people.

"They must be told, No!" the Pope said to a crowd of over 100,000 gathered for the outdoor Mass.

Prosecutor: Pope faces threat from the mafia

Earlier during his visit, Pope Francis met with relatives of a 3-year-old boy, Nicola Campolongo, who was the victim of an alleged Mafia hit in January. Nicknamed Coco, the boy was with his grandfather when they were both shot and their bodies subsequently burned in a car.

It is not the first time the Pope has spoken out against the Mafia. In March in Rome at a meeting with families of victims, the Pope called directly on Mafia bosses to repent, saying "hell ... awaits you if you continue on this road."

Some anti-mafia prosecutors have worried that the Mafia may target Pope Francis, who is also reforming the Vatican, including its scandal-scarred bank, the Institute for Religious Works.

"The strong will of Pope Francis, aiming to disrupt the gangrene power centers, puts him at risk. He disturbs the Mafia very much," Nicola Gratteri, a prosecutor in Calabria, told CNN in November.


Pope excommunicates Italian Mafia members - CNN.com (external - login to view)
 
Spade
+3
#2
He did nothing of the sort; he made a speech. If bishops and priests take him at his word and neither bury nor marry those mobsters, then it would mean more than words.
 
taxslave
+1
#3
That must have the gangsters quaking in their loafers.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#4
As I understand it from my fairly casual reading, excommunication has to be performed on an individual or group, after deliberation by a church court of some description (very little resemblance to real courts, but still a deliberative body), based on that individual's or group's own conduct.

So yeah, I agree with Spade. This was a rhetorical flourish, not a formal declaration of excommunication.
 
Sal
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

That must have the gangsters quaking in their loafers.

er, that would be: That must have the gangsters quaking in their Guccis'
 
gerryh
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

He did nothing of the sort; he made a speech. If bishops and priests take him at his word and neither bury nor marry those mobsters, then it would mean more than words.

Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

As I understand it from my fairly casual reading, excommunication has to be performed on an individual or group, after deliberation by a church court of some description (very little resemblance to real courts, but still a deliberative body), based on that individual's or group's own conduct.

So yeah, I agree with Spade. This was a rhetorical flourish, not a formal declaration of excommunication.


I'll just point this out

Quote:

"Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said in an outdoor Mass in Piana di Sibari, Calabria.

It is the first time a Pope has spoken of excommunication for the Mafia. Excommunication, which excludes Catholics from the church, can be imposed by church authorities or incurred automatically for certain grave offenses.


For those of you that are NOT Catholic, take note of what I highlighted. His Holiness the Pope IS the ultimate church authority on earth.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I'll just point this out




For those of you that are NOT Catholic, take note of what I highlighted. His Holiness the Pope IS the ultimate church authority on earth.

Could be. I'm far from being an expert on the subject.
 
gerryh
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Could be. I'm far from being an expert on the subject.


Could be? ya, ok.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Could be? ya, ok.

You might be right. If you are, I'm OK with that. But pardon me for not accepting you as an expert on canon law without some evidence beyond you being Caflick.
 
Sal
+4
#10  Top Rated Post
I think this will create huge problems for the Mafia. I see it as a beginning to the end for them using the church to appear mainstream which their strong ties have always assisted with.

It will take time but it is a bold statement that will begin a movement that will impact their whole country.
 
gerryh
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

You might be right. If you are, I'm OK with that. But pardon me for not accepting you as an expert on canon law without some evidence beyond you being Caflick.


He's the Pope!!!! To a Catholic, the only one with more authority is the Holy Trinity.
 
petros
#12
Jesus! It never ends.
 
taxslave
+2
#13
Too bad he isn't handing out the same punishment to kid diddling preachers.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

He's the Pope!!!! To a Catholic, the only one with more authority is the Holy Trinity.

You might be right. I'm just a little reserved on the subject. I stopped taking the word of any random Caflick on Catholic law when I found out that Papal infallibility does not mean everything the Pope says or does is automatically and eternally right. Rather, Papal infallibility is a doctrine that must be invoked by the Pope in order to be in effect, and is only in effect with regard to a proclamation for which the Pope has invoked infallibility.

Turns out that your average Caflick on the street may or may not know as much or little about Caflick law as your average citizen on the street may or may not know about the law of her country.

Not surprising when you think about it for more'n three seconds.
 
gerryh
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

You might be right. I'm just a little reserved on the subject. I stopped taking the word of any random Caflick on Catholic law when I found out that Papal infallibility does not mean everything the Pope says or does is automatically and eternally right. Rather, Papal infallibility is a doctrine that must be invoked by the Pope in order to be in effect, and is only in effect with regard to a proclamation for which the Pope has invoked infallibility.

Turns out that your average Caflick on the street may or may not know as much or little about Caflick law as your average citizen on the street may or may not know about the law of her country.

Not surprising when you think about it for more'n three seconds.


Caflick eh, I see things will be quite interesting.

and for those with multiple firing brain cells, I will reiterate.

To a Catholic, the only one with more authority is the Holy Trinity.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Caflick eh, I see things will be quite interesting.

No, they really won't. You'll use up the interest I have in your particular delusion pretty quick.

It's only because the church has such a long and well-developed philosophical and legal tradition that I give it any more attention than the nutbar cult down the road.
 
Nuggler
+2
#17
Very few besides the pope give a sh*t. Mafia could care less according to my buddy Gusieppe.

Throw a priest a few bucks or an altar boy and he'll marry and bury with great gusto.

More money and he'll bless the don's new cadillac.

Popey would do better to drag the RC church into the 21st century.
 
SLM
+2
#18
How much of an impact will this really have on the mafia over there? I know the Catholic faith is deeply entrenched in the culture in Italy but do they play at being mainstream in the same way that we're used to seeing?

I may be mistaken but generally I'd always thought the mafia in Sicily was more akin to the Central American drug cartels in their ruthlessness and excessive, excessive violence than what we generally see in the mafia 'families' over here. They openly go after judges and prosecutors. Not to diminish their criminal activities over here, but I'd just always been under the impression that alluding to be 'mainstream' was something more important to the North American mobsters. They'd always had more of a tendency to be surreptitious.
 
petros
+1
#19
If the Mafia is Catholic thing, where did all the Jews involved come from?
 
Nuggler
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If the Mafia is Catholic thing, where did all the Jews involved come from?

Meyer Lansky.., Gus Greenbaum, Monk Eastman, Arnold Rothstein, Otto Berman.(Abracadabera Berman)

The Kosher Nostra.

want more ??
Last edited by Nuggler; Jun 22nd, 2014 at 10:47 AM..
 
petros
#21
Nope. No need.

Will they be banned from the Eucharist too?
 
Spade
+2
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

Very few besides the pope give a sh*t. Mafia could care less according to my buddy Gusieppe.

Throw a priest a few bucks or an altar boy and he'll marry and bury with great gusto.

More money and he'll bless the don's new cadillac.

Popey would do better to drag the RC church into the 21st century.

Yuppers!
It is not as though the Mafia shives a get about papal dicta. If they did, they'd all be in the choir. The real test is in the local parishes.
Quench the candle? Or, piss into the wind!
 
Nuggler
+1 / -1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Nope. No need.

Will they be banned from the Eucharist too?

............Where is Eucharist ?............It got some bars and women ?
 
Goober
#24
Getting excommunicated is much harder than you think | CatholicHerald.co.uk (external - login to view)

How easy is it to get automatically excommunicated? The Code of Canon Law mentions several crimes that incur the penalty automatically. These include physically assaulting the Pope, stealing the Host for a sacrilegious purpose, a priest giving absolution to a partner in a sin against the Sixth Commandment, a priest who violates the seal of the confessional, and someone who actually procures an abortion.

This last one is likely to have the most application today. As with all canonical penalties, there are conditions attached. The guilty person must act deliberately and freely, be over 17 years of age, and must not be acting inadvertently, but must know the law. Moreover, an actual abortion must have occurred to merit the penalty. Quite often the mother of the child will not incur the penalty, given the circumstances. But the doctors and other medical people will, as they can hardly claim compulsion or ignorance. As for legislators who promote abortion and make it possible, they surely must incur the penalty.

What are the effects of excommunication? The excommunicated person is cut off from the Church and may no longer receive the sacraments (of course, they may not want to). When they die, they should be denied a Catholic funeral, and burial in a Catholic cemetery. This last is but rarely enforced, as far as I am aware. Few countries have Catholic cemeteries these days. But once upon a time, the question of burials was a very sensitive issue.

What I have written above has tried to clear up confusion about excommunication. Canon Law is a difficult subject, and the imprecise use of terms makes it even more confusing. Please note that I have refrained from using the newspaper-speak neologism “incommunicated” and the archaism “defrocked” – these terms should never be used, as they do not correspond to canonical realities. The Code of Canon Law is relatively user-friendly and it is published online, so can be readily consulted.
 
gerryh
+1
#25
again, I reiterate

To a Catholic, the only one with more authority is the Holy Trinity.
 
petros
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

again, I reiterate

To a Catholic, the only one with more authority is the Holy Trinity.

Some (especially alleged atheists) have trouble seperating Politics and Spirituality of the Church.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#27
The mobsters will take this seriously. Two main reasons. They are regarded as pillars
in the community and the church gives them credibility. The second is they give to the
church and many feel they get a pass with God for some of the good things they do in
supporting the church.
It is strange thinking but in fact many regard themselves as strong Christian men.
The Pope is somewhat of an activist it seems and he is moving in the right direction
 
Nuggler
+2
#28
Yah, I know Grumps. I'm just trolling Gerry for his abortion sh*t he trots out when he's not getting his own way, or in a bad mood, or something.

He even lowered himself to give an atheist like me a red.........hoooo woooda thunk
 
gerryh
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

Yah, I know Grumps. I'm just trolling

No need to state the obvious.

Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

He even lowered himself to give an atheist like me a red.........hoooo woooda thunk


usually, that is all your incoherent, drug induced ramblings are worth.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

again, I reiterate

To a Catholic, the only one with more authority is the Holy Trinity.

Repetition does not add truth value.
 

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